Yes you will need a MS login for the windows 8.1 update.
I'd be willing to login just the once, in order to get the 8.1 update, IF:
a) Classic Shell and similar Metro-hiding tools are not disabled by 8.1; and
b) I can continue to use my local login as usual thereafter.
If either of those are not the case, I will never take 8.1.
Incidentally, I do like the W8 file copy dialogs, I really miss them when booting up into XP as I sometimes do for legacy stuff. The new dialogs with speed graphs are really useful when copying very large files, folders and making backups; also in comparing the performance of different disks, SD cards, usb sticks and connections (usb 2/3 etc.).
For me, the file dialogs alone were worth the upgrade from 7 (once I managed to bury Metro).
I'd be willing to login just the once, in order to get the 8.1 update, IF:
a) Classic Shell and similar Metro-hiding tools are not disabled by 8.1; and
b) I can continue to use my local login as usual thereafter.
If either of those are not the case, I will never take 8.1.
There's no suggestion that either will be affected by the update. That said, as you never use anything in W8 it won't be worth updating early for you....
I'd be willing to login just the once, in order to get the 8.1 update, IF:
a) Classic Shell and similar Metro-hiding tools are not disabled by 8.1; and
b) I can continue to use my local login as usual thereafter.
If either of those are not the case, I will never take 8.1.
Incidentally, I do like the W8 file copy dialogs, I really miss them when booting up into XP as I sometimes do for legacy stuff. The new dialogs with speed graphs are really useful when copying very large files, folders and making backups; also in comparing the performance of different disks, SD cards, usb sticks and connections (usb 2/3 etc.).
For me, the file dialogs alone were worth the upgrade from 7 (once I managed to bury Metro).
There are methods to replace start menu that work for W7, too. They would not break a functionality that only uses documented features. As for non MS login they cannot remove that functionality, because if nothing else it has to work within a domain. So you will have to use a MS login for Windows Store and that's it. The preview will be available, so why not to try it out and see if it makes sense for you.
What a strange statement, I use most aspects of W8 heavily, with the exception of Metro, its apps and charms. What I use, I like.
I am exactly the same.
This is the bit I really struggle with in these threads, I'm not keen on Metro or Windows App Store apps so I don't use them and I don't notice they are there. They don't get in the way nor am I forced to use them all the time.
I am currently on my work laptop (Lenovo X220 running Windows 7).
These days I get a sense of claustrophobia when using it.
I do like using the Windows 8 start screen as a widget-y dashboard to quickly see if there are new tweets, emails, new stories etc without it bothering me when I'm on the desktop side.
Having gotten used to Windows 8 now, I'm also less enamoured of Aero on W7. I now prefer the subtler look of it on 8's desktop.
That said, I'd rather have 7's glassy Aero than the dull grey that seems to pervade the window chrome on Macs.
This is the bit I really struggle with in these threads, I'm not keen on Metro or Windows App Store apps so I don't use them and I don't notice they are there. They don't get in the way nor am I forced to use them all the time.
I think what people are mostly worried about is the next full version of Windows or the one after that and the prospect that Microsoft may take away the desktop completely and/or disable the 3rd party add ons that make W8 usable. Everybody kicking up a fuss now makes that less likely.
I think what people are mostly worried about is the next full version of Windows or the one after that and the prospect that Microsoft may take away the desktop completely and/or disable the 3rd party add ons that make W8 usable. Everybody kicking up a fuss now makes that less likely.
Anyone who thinks that doesn't understand Microsoft, they want to grow Metro to prevent themselves being destroyed in the consumer space and prevent BYOD destroying their strength in the business market.
Getting rid of the desktop would be them killing their business market themselves which they won't do.
Remember we only have windows 8 in this form in the first place because Microsoft were late to the party. Windows 8 was their attempt to break the userbase/apps chicken-and-egg issue that has befallen Windows Phone.
Anyone who thinks that doesn't understand Microsoft, they want to grow Metro to prevent themselves being destroyed in the consumer space and prevent BYOD destroying their strength in the business market.
Getting rid of the desktop would be them killing their business market themselves which they won't do.
Remember we only have windows 8 in this form in the first place because Microsoft were late to the party. Windows 8 was their attempt to break the userbase/apps chicken-and-egg issue that has befallen Windows Phone.
It doesn't appear to be that way though from their actions. Firstly they make it difficult to use the desktop and force people to use 3rd party add ons and then their response to criticism is to patronisingly talk about helping people to move to Metro as if the reason they don't like it is because change is difficult and they just can't manage.
I'm not arguing against your points I'm just saying that is not the impression Microsoft are creating.
It doesn't appear to be that way though from their actions. Firstly they make it difficult to use the desktop and force people to use 3rd party add ons and then their response to criticism is to patronisingly talk about helping people to move to Metro as if the reason they don't like it is because change is difficult and they just can't manage.
I'm not arguing against your points I'm just saying that is not the impression Microsoft are creating.
What you say is all correct.
Yes, they want to push people to metro to ensure the usage is there so the app developers come and ensure a vibrant software library.
Whilst what I laid out is an underlying part of their reasoning in coming up with their product strategy, that's of course not how they're going to market and sell it to people. They're not going to say we're forcing metro on you, they're going to sell it to you as a good thing.
That said, I do love metro on Windows Phone, I do love hybrid concepts (I'm thinking of buying a second generation Surface Pro with Haswell processor) and there are merits to what they've done.
If 8.1 brings back the start button but only sends you to $h!tty Start Screen I won't be updating to it.
Unless of course Classic Shell also comes with a way to disable that and bring up a proper start menu as it does now, the way it should work.
I have seen on here and other sites that the start button will only send you to the start screen, it is because people are confused when they get to the desktop and they don.t know how to get back.
As for start menus, I know the ones I use startisback will not work with 8.1, so unless that is updated, I will stay with windows 8, I can't see myself missing 8.1 anyway, it seems to be all about the UI and changing that.
It doesn't appear to be that way though from their actions. Firstly they make it difficult to use the desktop and force people to use 3rd party add ons and then their response to criticism is to patronisingly talk about helping people to move to Metro as if the reason they don't like it is because change is difficult and they just can't manage.
I'm not arguing against your points I'm just saying that is not the impression Microsoft are creating.
Exactly. People are used to the start menu and have been since the mid 90s. It works fine, so why change what's not broken? Not everyone wants or needs a tablet. And forcing a tablet OS onto desktop users was just stupid. They should have sold Windows 7 alongside Windows 8 or made two versions of W8 - one with the Duplo interface for tablets and another with the desktop and start menu for desktop users. Maybe they need to bring back Windows NT for business users. The reason people don't like the new interface is because it's rubbish and tacky, not because they don't like change.
Comments
a) Classic Shell and similar Metro-hiding tools are not disabled by 8.1; and
b) I can continue to use my local login as usual thereafter.
If either of those are not the case, I will never take 8.1.
Incidentally, I do like the W8 file copy dialogs, I really miss them when booting up into XP as I sometimes do for legacy stuff. The new dialogs with speed graphs are really useful when copying very large files, folders and making backups; also in comparing the performance of different disks, SD cards, usb sticks and connections (usb 2/3 etc.).
For me, the file dialogs alone were worth the upgrade from 7 (once I managed to bury Metro).
There's no suggestion that either will be affected by the update. That said, as you never use anything in W8 it won't be worth updating early for you....
So maybe they have 'listened' and decided 'well we failed to enforce that down their necks, so let's try it this way'.
There are methods to replace start menu that work for W7, too. They would not break a functionality that only uses documented features. As for non MS login they cannot remove that functionality, because if nothing else it has to work within a domain. So you will have to use a MS login for Windows Store and that's it. The preview will be available, so why not to try it out and see if it makes sense for you.
I am exactly the same.
This is the bit I really struggle with in these threads, I'm not keen on Metro or Windows App Store apps so I don't use them and I don't notice they are there. They don't get in the way nor am I forced to use them all the time.
These days I get a sense of claustrophobia when using it.
I do like using the Windows 8 start screen as a widget-y dashboard to quickly see if there are new tweets, emails, new stories etc without it bothering me when I'm on the desktop side.
Having gotten used to Windows 8 now, I'm also less enamoured of Aero on W7. I now prefer the subtler look of it on 8's desktop.
That said, I'd rather have 7's glassy Aero than the dull grey that seems to pervade the window chrome on Macs.
I think what people are mostly worried about is the next full version of Windows or the one after that and the prospect that Microsoft may take away the desktop completely and/or disable the 3rd party add ons that make W8 usable. Everybody kicking up a fuss now makes that less likely.
Anyone who thinks that doesn't understand Microsoft, they want to grow Metro to prevent themselves being destroyed in the consumer space and prevent BYOD destroying their strength in the business market.
Getting rid of the desktop would be them killing their business market themselves which they won't do.
Remember we only have windows 8 in this form in the first place because Microsoft were late to the party. Windows 8 was their attempt to break the userbase/apps chicken-and-egg issue that has befallen Windows Phone.
It doesn't appear to be that way though from their actions. Firstly they make it difficult to use the desktop and force people to use 3rd party add ons and then their response to criticism is to patronisingly talk about helping people to move to Metro as if the reason they don't like it is because change is difficult and they just can't manage.
I'm not arguing against your points I'm just saying that is not the impression Microsoft are creating.
What you say is all correct.
Yes, they want to push people to metro to ensure the usage is there so the app developers come and ensure a vibrant software library.
Whilst what I laid out is an underlying part of their reasoning in coming up with their product strategy, that's of course not how they're going to market and sell it to people. They're not going to say we're forcing metro on you, they're going to sell it to you as a good thing.
That said, I do love metro on Windows Phone, I do love hybrid concepts (I'm thinking of buying a second generation Surface Pro with Haswell processor) and there are merits to what they've done.
Unless of course Classic Shell also comes with a way to disable that and bring up a proper start menu as it does now, the way it should work.
I have seen on here and other sites that the start button will only send you to the start screen, it is because people are confused when they get to the desktop and they don.t know how to get back.
As for start menus, I know the ones I use startisback will not work with 8.1, so unless that is updated, I will stay with windows 8, I can't see myself missing 8.1 anyway, it seems to be all about the UI and changing that.
Oh yes.. good point. And from what I've read it will require a trip to the windows app store to download it.
Correct. One of my MS accounts uses my Gmail email address.
So it's essentially a service pack in all but name?
Exactly. People are used to the start menu and have been since the mid 90s. It works fine, so why change what's not broken? Not everyone wants or needs a tablet. And forcing a tablet OS onto desktop users was just stupid. They should have sold Windows 7 alongside Windows 8 or made two versions of W8 - one with the Duplo interface for tablets and another with the desktop and start menu for desktop users. Maybe they need to bring back Windows NT for business users. The reason people don't like the new interface is because it's rubbish and tacky, not because they don't like change.
i got a hotmail account, which is now a MS account, been meaning to get rid of it for a while since I don't really use it.
Thanks for sharing that, good to know... useful information and another quality contribution from you:rolleyes: