I'm not sure I agree with that. When I left home at 18 (I didn't go back) to go to university I had to manage renting my digs and the bills and trying to budget (as well as having a social life), learn to cook, do the washing etc etc. A lot of people don't leave home until their mid twenties or later now and don't learn those skills. I had no choice but to learn them. By the time I had left at the age of 21 I had negotiated and tussled with at least six landlords and my bank manager, and was a capable cook and housekeeper. I was totally self sufficient.
My friend who left school in the 60's and got an apprentiship didn't leave home until he got married when he was about 23, his wife was 22. Neither had any housekeeping skills.
That's good that you did that. However, just about everyone I know that went to or is at Uni may have rent etc to juggle, but they are certainly not mature. They are still out half of the time pi$$ing it up in town and certialy not trying to hold down a 9-5 course or job.
And what of those that cannot or do not want to go to Uni? If you work in Tesco or McDonalds etc you are seen as the lowest of the low by a lot of people, why should these people make attempt after attempt to be pleasant to those looking down their noses at them. These people would soon complain if there was nowhere to shop it because they couldn't get anyone to do the job. It is people seeing others as beneath them that cause half of the teenagers troubles these days. The media and everything classes those without a degree (even in some pointless subject) as low life. You just have to look at half of the posts here on DS to see this every day.
I don't think it should be free, but the means testing should be done differently. It should account for how many children are in your family and only your parents income or those who are directly responsible.
Some of that money should be held back, to make sure you are making the most out of your course. If you miss to many things for being lazy then the money shouldn't be paid.
Then you have to remember that university is still largely free, courses cost much more than the £3000 we pay for them.
Free, but severly restricted places (well, compared to what we have now anyway) to people wanting to train for a specific career. I'd like to see them sign a 'Society Contribution' contract and work for a set number of years in a promised sector using their education.
If they end up changing their minds a student loan repayment scheme like we have now could be imposed.
I agree with a lot of the comments that it seems like a high percentage of people coming out of university and never using what they've learnt again - it seems incredibly wasteful to me.
I know there's the argument of learning for learnings sake, I would never want to limit peoples access to information, but times have changed dramatically over the last 20 years.
We do have pretty much unlimited access to information, if people are considering what I call a 'hobby' degree, whats the point? Fair enough if you're completely willing to cover all costs yourself without a soft option loan, but not at tax payers expense (even loans are at our expense in the short term).
I'd like to see universitys charge a membership fee to grant non students access to their facilities and lectures (some American Universities already offer open access via the web to their lectures) - you can become knowledgable in a subject independently from formalised education.
I would also like to see a return to curved grading instead of the points system we have now, all the way through education preferably, I don't think our current system actually helps anyone when it comes to highlighting where their skills lie.
The thread title contains an unnecessary question mark. The original post contains misspellings, incorrect grammar and wrong punctuation.
A more salient point would be why on earth are you considering Higher Education?
University education should be about the achievement of excellence in whatever field not as some sort of rite passage for any eighteen year old.
I agree it should not be a "doss"
get over your self did i ever say i was going no, god are you part of that "crew" on here or sommet who just broweses threads looking for people making spelling mistakes, why are you so bovered, GROW UP. :yawn:
The target that 50% should go to uni has resulted in a large increase in the number of students going to uni and the government were unable to fund it so fees were introduced.
The entry requirements for many of the newer unis is only 2 A levels which historically would not have been acceptable to study for a degree, even the old polys required 3. The drop-out rates at the newer universities is in many instances very high indicating there are a lot of students who don't have the academic ability to succeed at degree level which makes the 50% target a political rather a sensible educational one.
It is a sorry state of affairs and we should be concentrating on vocational and apprenticeships for young people who clearly don't have the academic abilities to study for a degree rather than dumbing down the value of degrees and lumbering them with debt. But while it continues the only answer is top-up fees or increased taxes.
get over your self did i ever say i was going no, god are you part of that "crew" on here or sommet who just broweses threads looking for people making spelling mistakes, why are you so bovered, GROW UP. :yawn:
an adult who has had and probably been able to get a good education, i cant do that.
I realise my original comment makes me sound a bit of a p****. I apologise.
However, the point I was trying to make is very important to me.
I was given an education at University on a full grant. I was, and still am, incredibly grateful to the ratepayers of Kirklees in Yorkshire for their generosity.
My children are now at University and ironically it is now much less socially diverse even though it has massively expanded. I believe the present funding arrangements need to be looked at to encourage poor able student to do degrees without saddling themselves with massive debt.
Incidentally, the figures to show that a degree increases a person's salary are bogus. The statistics are based on figures from over 20 years ago when the number of graduates was far fewer.
It was free in my day and because my parents were not wealthy I ended up having a full grant but.... No University education should not be free. Why should kids who go out to work at 16 or 18, [who often come from less privileged families in the first place], have to pay for others to sit in the student union and drink real ale.
No fees, a survivable non-repayable grant and less students. Selection done by test and not interview. (Gives the poor a better change of getting through)
No fees, a survivable non-repayable grant and less students. Selection done by test and not interview. (Gives the poor a better change of getting through)
Spot on.
Visiting my son at University is like going to a minor Public School. It was much more diverse in the 1970s!
Comments
That's good that you did that. However, just about everyone I know that went to or is at Uni may have rent etc to juggle, but they are certainly not mature. They are still out half of the time pi$$ing it up in town and certialy not trying to hold down a 9-5 course or job.
And what of those that cannot or do not want to go to Uni? If you work in Tesco or McDonalds etc you are seen as the lowest of the low by a lot of people, why should these people make attempt after attempt to be pleasant to those looking down their noses at them. These people would soon complain if there was nowhere to shop it because they couldn't get anyone to do the job. It is people seeing others as beneath them that cause half of the teenagers troubles these days. The media and everything classes those without a degree (even in some pointless subject) as low life. You just have to look at half of the posts here on DS to see this every day.
Some of that money should be held back, to make sure you are making the most out of your course. If you miss to many things for being lazy then the money shouldn't be paid.
Then you have to remember that university is still largely free, courses cost much more than the £3000 we pay for them.
If they end up changing their minds a student loan repayment scheme like we have now could be imposed.
I agree with a lot of the comments that it seems like a high percentage of people coming out of university and never using what they've learnt again - it seems incredibly wasteful to me.
I know there's the argument of learning for learnings sake, I would never want to limit peoples access to information, but times have changed dramatically over the last 20 years.
We do have pretty much unlimited access to information, if people are considering what I call a 'hobby' degree, whats the point? Fair enough if you're completely willing to cover all costs yourself without a soft option loan, but not at tax payers expense (even loans are at our expense in the short term).
I'd like to see universitys charge a membership fee to grant non students access to their facilities and lectures (some American Universities already offer open access via the web to their lectures) - you can become knowledgable in a subject independently from formalised education.
I would also like to see a return to curved grading instead of the points system we have now, all the way through education preferably, I don't think our current system actually helps anyone when it comes to highlighting where their skills lie.
get over your self did i ever say i was going no, god are you part of that "crew" on here or sommet who just broweses threads looking for people making spelling mistakes, why are you so bovered, GROW UP. :yawn:
The entry requirements for many of the newer unis is only 2 A levels which historically would not have been acceptable to study for a degree, even the old polys required 3. The drop-out rates at the newer universities is in many instances very high indicating there are a lot of students who don't have the academic ability to succeed at degree level which makes the 50% target a political rather a sensible educational one.
It is a sorry state of affairs and we should be concentrating on vocational and apprenticeships for young people who clearly don't have the academic abilities to study for a degree rather than dumbing down the value of degrees and lumbering them with debt. But while it continues the only answer is top-up fees or increased taxes.
No. I'm an adult who values education.
Witty comeback though.
an adult who has had and probably been able to get a good education, i cant do that.
Why ever not?
I realise my original comment makes me sound a bit of a p****. I apologise.
However, the point I was trying to make is very important to me.
I was given an education at University on a full grant. I was, and still am, incredibly grateful to the ratepayers of Kirklees in Yorkshire for their generosity.
My children are now at University and ironically it is now much less socially diverse even though it has massively expanded. I believe the present funding arrangements need to be looked at to encourage poor able student to do degrees without saddling themselves with massive debt.
Incidentally, the figures to show that a degree increases a person's salary are bogus. The statistics are based on figures from over 20 years ago when the number of graduates was far fewer.
Oh yes it does, well it did in my day.:)
Spot on.
Visiting my son at University is like going to a minor Public School. It was much more diverse in the 1970s!
Can't they do a degree for that these days?