ESPN Classic - The Decline and Fall...

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  • ArchieArchivistArchieArchivist Posts: 321
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    Homesdale wrote: »
    I'm just so glad i have most of the games, in full, with the original commentary anyway.

    True, but I still think even your legendary collection would have benefited from the superior digital broadcasts of the ESPN archive. They may not be full games, but the PQ would have been so superior. Still, it's all moot now as the dubbing has destroyed any benefit the ESPN series might have brought.
    But as you say i do feel sorry for Jim Proudfoot as its certainly not his fault, but he has to put food on the table, and no one on here is moaning directly about his commentary.

    But i do think he maybe should of turned it down as it sounds just so false.

    Will be interesting to see if does every game!!

    Nobody's faulting Jim, but I'll not be tuning in to see how he gets on. It's excruciating listening to his faux-commentary live from Guadalaj.., I mean a booth in London.
    (my god we are so sad) :D

    No, you're the one with the 5,000 DVDs. :p

    Archie. ;)
  • AZZURRI 06AZZURRI 06 Posts: 11,173
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    I thought I was the only one who noticed this....I am not alone! I agree with everything said previously, the picture quality is superb but the commentary....To those who say ESPN do not ,I have to disagree, when they first started showing old First Division games I complained about that bloody big `bubble` that appeared at the side of the screen every so often. Result? They wrote back and, eventually, replaced it with a much less annoying caption. I have to say the England v Brazil game didn`t even have the right crowd noises from that marvellous day in 1970!!! Also, the editing for ad breaks is absolutely horrible. I will still watch all the games though.
  • HomesdaleHomesdale Posts: 6,876
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    It was Barry Davies on last night's 1970 Final!!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,142
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    All the captions said 1974 World Cup Final!!!!
  • HomesdaleHomesdale Posts: 6,876
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    sadler wrote: »
    All the captions said 1974 World Cup Final!!!!

    Did they really. I only quickly flicked throught it this morning to check who the commentator was.

    I also thought the picture quality was pretty poor. I'm sure FIFA must have better copies than that, as my copy on DVD is alot better!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrfzOES3i4
  • Jason CJason C Posts: 31,152
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    Homesdale wrote: »
    It was Barry Davies on last night's 1970 Final!!

    I watched that a little earlier, and wondered whether it was strange for him to dub commentary on a match at a WC he commentated on originally some 40 years ago.

    The other thing I noticed is that he seems to be suffering the same affliction that David Coleman had at the end of his career, namely that his voice seems to be faltering with old age.

    I agree with the original poster that the dubbed faux-at-the-time commentary is needless and patronising towards the genuine football viewers, but I think this is outweighed by how good it is for ESPN Classic to have bought the footage at all; I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the official World Cup films, for one, and am looking forward to seeing the rest in due course.

    In short, I think ESPN is an excellent channel and I look forward to them acquiring more classic footage of not just football but other sports in the near future.
  • tiny_timtiny_tim Posts: 1,114
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    Jason C wrote: »
    I watched that a little earlier, and wondered whether it was strange for him to dub commentary on a match at a WC he commentated on originally some 40 years ago.

    He didn't commentate on it originally. I think it was Hugh Johns.

    Barry Davies is certainly a step up from Jim Proudfoot on these old games, so credit where it's due. However I still think the original commentary is the minimum requirement. In the absence of that, I guess using older comms is the best compromise.
  • Jason CJason C Posts: 31,152
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    tiny_tim wrote: »
    He didn't commentate on it originally. I think it was Hugh Johns.

    Sorry, I didn't mean that he commentated on the final, but I think he commentated on some of the other matches for radio...?
  • jeffersbnljeffersbnl Posts: 4,697
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    tiny_tim wrote: »
    He didn't commentate on it originally. I think it was Hugh Johns.
    BBC commentary was Kenneth Wolstenholme. Barry Davies rejoined the BBC in 1969, he'd worked for them from about 1963 to 1966 (on radio) and then ITV imbetween that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,864
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    Is the commentary for the classic Premier League matches dubbed, or do they use the international English commentary?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 136
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    It would be a nice shock to see something with other home nations involved. Most of the time when I flick past the channel it is either classic EPL, England v somebody else at football or England v somebody else at rugby.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised really.
  • ArchieArchivistArchieArchivist Posts: 321
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    Jason C wrote: »
    I agree with the original poster that the dubbed faux-at-the-time commentary is needless and patronising towards the genuine football viewers, but I think this is outweighed by how good it is for ESPN Classic to have bought the footage at all; I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the official World Cup films, for one, and am looking forward to seeing the rest in due course.

    In short, I think ESPN is an excellent channel and I look forward to them acquiring more classic footage of not just football but other sports in the near future.

    The World Cup films are a separate issue, though. They are broadcast as they are - narrated stock photography sometimes set to music. They're enjoyable for what they are and my only criticism of ESPN here is that they keep their DOG on the screen and take ad breaks during these films. But I'll live with that.

    The classic matches coverage is not acceptable, though. Dubbed commentary is a joke - and the wheeling out of an aged Barry Davies isn't adding any more credibility than Jim Proudfoot already gives. It's a sop, really, and an attempt to cover their tracks.

    I can only think that they can't strike a deal with the BBC or ITV for some reason as it surely can't be much cheaper to get Proudfoot or Davies in to dub a new dubious commentary over the pretty poor quality FIFA footage. The sound quality was appalling last week, and the picture quality was suspect last night.

    You're right about ESPN being a great channel - the HD channel is marvelous for European football, and Classic used to be sensational. However, the botched World Cup classics coverage damages it in my eyes as it's no longer a truly original archive channel. The current cheapo "Best of Serie A" series is another indication of the direction this once-great channel is going.

    Archie.
  • Alex2606Alex2606 Posts: 2,682
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    monkster wrote: »
    It would be a nice shock to see something with other home nations involved. Most of the time when I flick past the channel it is either classic EPL, England v somebody else at football or England v somebody else at rugby.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised really.

    Wales vs Samoa from the 1991 RWC was on earlier tonight I think.
  • HomesdaleHomesdale Posts: 6,876
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    The World Cup films are a separate issue, though. They are broadcast as they are - narrated stock photography sometimes set to music. They're enjoyable for what they are and my only criticism of ESPN here is that they keep their DOG on the screen and take ad breaks during these films. But I'll live with that.

    The classic matches coverage is not acceptable, though. Dubbed commentary is a joke - and the wheeling out of an aged Barry Davies isn't adding any more credibility than Jim Proudfoot already gives. It's a sop, really, and an attempt to cover their tracks.

    I can only think that they can't strike a deal with the BBC or ITV for some reason as it surely can't be much cheaper to get Proudfoot or Davies in to dub a new dubious commentary over the pretty poor quality FIFA footage. The sound quality was appalling last week, and the picture quality was suspect last night.

    You're right about ESPN being a great channel - the HD channel is marvelous for European football, and Classic used to be sensational. However, the botched World Cup classics coverage damages it in my eyes as it's no longer a truly original archive channel. The current cheapo "Best of Serie A" series is another indication of the direction this once-great channel is going.

    Archie.

    They have got Tony Gubba doing some commentary too!! ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 297
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    The 1970 world cup final looked like it had been gathering dust. It looked so dirty! Shame that Barry Davies lowered himself to do this even though his commentary was pretty good.
  • AZZURRI 06AZZURRI 06 Posts: 11,173
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    Barry Davies wasn`t too bad, although I agree about his voice faltering with age. The picture quality was a little iffy, but hopefully that is a one-off. Poland v Argentina from 1974 is next week`s game, I wonder who will do that one?
  • ArchieArchivistArchieArchivist Posts: 321
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    They'll probably defrost Barry Davies again. Sad to see a legend reduced to this nonsense. Barry probably enjoys just seeing the old matches again, the memories must come flooding back.

    I really find it impossible to watch this series now. I gave Barry a bit of a chance the other night - and he's marvelous to listen to even now - but the production values are shocking. The picture quality is appalling and the crowd noise even worse. Dubbed commentary - Barry or not - ruins the experience.

    I compared Brazil-Italy on ESPN to some highlights of the same match that the BBC showed as part of their interactive coverage of World Cup 2006. The difference is incredible. I have the Brazil-England match from 1970 on DVD too (BBCi recording from 2002) and it was like watching a completely different match - a thrilling one where the tension and excitement was palpable.

    Whatever cheapo deal ESPN did with FIFA is doing them no favours at all. What should be a fantastic advertisement for the channel has turned into a shambolic fiasco.

    Get the original commentary or else please just broadcast the match with crowd noise only. Anything else damages the brand.

    Archie.
  • AZZURRI 06AZZURRI 06 Posts: 11,173
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    Last night we had Jim Proudfoot, although the picture was fine and it had the original crowd noise. Better than nothing I suppose.
  • jo2015jo2015 Posts: 6,021
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    Watching the 1970 England v Brazil game just doesn't sound right without the commentary sounding like it's coming from the other end of a phone :D
  • ArchieArchivistArchieArchivist Posts: 321
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    Yeah, this series is a complete waste of time now. I've given up on it.

    Archie.
  • AZZURRI 06AZZURRI 06 Posts: 11,173
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    Tonight we have Holland v Brazil from 1974, I checked the ESPN website and amongst the goodies in store we have the 1966 Final. I can`t wait to hear what line Jim Proudfoot will spring on us when Hurst bangs in his third.
  • HomesdaleHomesdale Posts: 6,876
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    AZZURRI 06 wrote: »
    Tonight we have Holland v Brazil from 1974, I checked the ESPN website and amongst the goodies in store we have the 1966 Final. I can`t wait to hear what line Jim Proudfoot will spring on us when Hurst bangs in his third.

    Never seen a copy with original David Coleman or Hugh Johns commentary.

    The only copy floating around has commentary with John Helm.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyFp5SxfX1U
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 297
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    I recall a rothmans video pre 1982 world cup, which looked back on all the prewvious world cups. That fewatured Martyn Tyler doing the jim proudfoot job on the 1970 and 74 world cups.
  • ArchieArchivistArchieArchivist Posts: 321
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    To add insult to injury, their Web site introduces the series as follows:

    They’ve long been the stuff of legend...and now a whole new generation of TV viewers will get to see them for themselves. Those individual World Cup matches from the competition’s most legendary tournaments, that is, in all their original glory.

    All their glory? What, 50 minutes of highlights? I can live with the highlights, but "original"? Where's the original commentary?

    Allowing for mad marketing men and their exaggerated bull, why would ESPN Classic be aiming for "a whole new generation"? This channel is surely aimed at an older demographic with money to spend and the majority of those viewers will have seen these games in the past. Therefore, to inflict Proudfoot on us and to wheel out Barry Davies for a few cod commentaries is a bad joke. Perhaps they thought we wouldn't notice? :rolleyes:

    *Awaits John Helm's appearance*

    Archie.
  • AZZURRI 06AZZURRI 06 Posts: 11,173
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    Commentary wouldn`t normally bother me, as long as the picture quality is good, but these old games are part of our childhood/youth and to hear a modern commentator doing an old game is just wrong. I will stick with the series however, because I am a football classics junkie. So long as they keep the original sound noise, although tv companies have been doing this for years, I remember Football Focus used to dub in cowbells (?) when showing some European goals. Also, Motson/Davies would occasionally dub in the odd, `great chance here, with seventeen and a half minutes gone..... goal!`
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