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The Simon Cowell Appreciation Thread (Part 2)

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,450
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    Not suprised that those that are Simon fans are bored by Idol this year. However, most reports are that the show is much refreshed and the chemistry between the judges is good.

    Ratings are down from last years opener(duh) but they were still quite high at 26 million. Considering most people thought Idol would lose half it's audience with Simon gone, that's a big victory IMO. Plus Nigel tweeted that it's actually up on last years finale.

    As for Ryan being "underused". I hear the same thing every year and it is just down to the fact that this isn't the portion of the show where he is featured that much. It's normal that you just see him a few times outside the room. But the thing is, you hear him throughout the entire show. When it gets to the live audience that's when Ryan takes over.
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    jujubee wrote: »
    Not suprised that those that are Simon fans are bored by Idol this year. However, most reports are that the show is much refreshed and the chemistry between the judges is good.

    Ratings are down from last years opener(duh) but they were still quite high at 26 million. Considering most people thought Idol would lose half it's audience with Simon gone, that's a big victory IMO. Plus Nigel tweeted that it's actually up on last years finale.

    As for Ryan being "underused". I hear the same thing every year and it is just down to the fact that this isn't the portion of the show where he is featured that much. It's normal that you just see him a few times outside the room. But the thing is, you hear him throughout the entire show. When it gets to the live audience that's when Ryan takes over.

    I was bored by Idol LAST YEAR and was hoping the judging panel change would be a positive thing. I have a soft spot for the show that goes beyond Simon BUT the complacency they are showing with another talent show on the SAME channel biting at their heels is mind blowing.

    I dont like what they have done so far -not so much with the judging panel - its a reasonable mix, (but does proves big names dont equal entertainment). Tyler has his moments and is definitely watchable - probably THE most watchable commodity they have right now. My biggest bug bear is with the production. It stinks to be honest.

    I hear what you are saying about Ryan - but I still feel he could have a bigger, more fulfilling role. Even Dermot O Fauxcrest gets more screen time during auditions than Ryan does...he could become a much more integral part of the show in the early stages - although I agree entirely his forte is the lives (and the main reason I will be watching again when that stage comes along).

    As for Nigel's tweets - they certainly have a positive spin, but dont tell the whole story.I dont think anyone ever denied that the opening shows would be popular - and attract a curious audience - the proof of the pudding will be next week in my opinion. It will give a fairer overview of whether the public are still behind Idol or not.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,070
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    The ratings drop was decent, would have been the same with Simon there, no doubt, but Nigel could be gaining false hope by that.

    At the moment Nigel is contradicting himself. He says it should be about the contestants and finding a star - true, but he's trying his hardest to promote his new judges and belittle Simon's previous contribution. Looking at Idol season 2 to 10, there is barely no change, where as XF has progressed throughout the years in terms of production. Simon always says you need to anticipate when the public are bored before they have even fully realised it. Keep reinventing and improving. Idol have been at the top for years but became complacent. The American media i have read says that XF looks fresher, more current, entertaining, with a zippy production and that Idol is in danger of looking like the older, poorer version. Last years live shows made a huge effort in performing songs in the current top 10, rather than the old standards Idol rely on.

    I'm not out to knock the show on Simon's behalf, he has the biggest challenge of his life ahead of him, now expectations are on him. I just think Nigel is not the blessing that many people think he will be to Idol, he has clearly let personal issues get in the way of evolving the show. I could easier watch XF without Simon than Idol. For me now, Idol is unwatchable, it's too slow and predictable.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,450
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    I really don't understand the "complacency" remarks. What exactly should they be doing at this stage? Having stupid live auditions like X-factor? Those suck IMO. It's much better in this format.

    Should they be having lame and obviously fake fights between the judges? Should they be taking turns storming off? Should they have more crap performers? Most comments I've read on message boards and blogs(I don't bother with the press. They tend to have ALWAYS bashed Idol and live up Simon's rectum) are positive about having more good talent at this stage and a few bad audtions.

    The bulk of the changes Idol has coming this year are going to be in the middle and live portions of the show. The big change now is the judges who from all I've read have got positive reviews.

    The more current songs have more to do wtih Copywrite laws and I have a feeling they may be more lax on UK TV. I'm not sure, but we won't find out how or if Idol responds to that til later. Also, we won't find out if X-factor US is allowed to do all they have done in the UK til it debuts. I suspect a lot of differences in the US version.

    As for Ryan, while I would definately like to see more of him, I could live with less for now because I know we'll see a lot more of him in the later stages.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,070
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    Perhaps i am being too critical. I admit i have always preferred XF. I love the high camp, the ridiculous bitching between the judges, but most importantly the value of Brian Friedman and the clever editing to make the inevitable tedious audition stage sparkle. It certainly makes 2 hours fly by compared to Idol.

    I find it difficult to watch solo singers just standing there with a mic as they do in the Idol live stages. The relevant artists like Gaga, Perry and Rhianna use big production, so the XF choreography and staging is a real test of what the contestants can handle in the real world. Obviously Nigel cannot take every element of XF and apply it to Idol. Perhaps there is no other way of evolving the show, i guess the answer to that is that XF IS the progressive version of Idol. It just depends whether you like all the gloss that comes with it or whether you prefer the traditional format.
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    I do think Idol has been superb at finding more real talent than XF ever has - but yes, I think you are right Mich, as far as an entertainment program goes, X Factor has evolved whereas Idol hasnt. In some ways, Idols "old fashioned" approach has more chance of finding musical talent, I just worry the journey has become tedious. Idol is certainly more about the contestants, however, as last year proved, when you end up with 12 lacklustre finalists, no-one,not Ryan, not Simon not A List Guest Mentors can save it. XF may produce pretty run of the road winners, but its all about generating the spin and getting people talking and watching.

    Many core fans of music will absolutely LOATHE X F (and probably with good reason) however its going to be a major talking point - something Idol just isnt anymore. Simon has sussed how to manipulate the whole thing by using the media and the show just BUZZES whilst its on - EVERYONE has an opinion -love it or hate it. Im afraid Idol is just "meh" with most people now. I think that would have been the case had Simon stayed or not as well. XF has moved with the times, Idol hasnt - but if it had, then I guess it would have already become XF. Idol could be killed off by mediocrity -when it isnt a talking point round the water coolers, then viewership will slide away at an alarming rate. Whatever happens with XF you know, before even a single second of footage has even been shot, that it will purposely contraversial, loud, brash and in your face. America WILL be talking about it whether they like it or not and that's what Simon has worked out.
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    Agent KrycekAgent Krycek Posts: 39,269
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    allie5 wrote: »
    I do think Idol has been superb at finding more real talent than XF ever has - but yes, I think you are right Mich, as far as an entertainment program goes, X Factor has evolved whereas Idol hasnt. In some ways, Idols "old fashioned" approach has more chance of finding musical talent, I just worry the journey has become tedious. Idol is certainly more about the contestants, however, as last year proved, when you end up with 12 lacklustre finalists, no-one,not Ryan, not Simon not A List Guest Mentors can save it. XF may produce pretty run of the road winners, but its all about generating the spin and getting people talking and watching.

    Many core fans of music will absolutely LOATHE X F (and probably with good reason) however its going to be a major talking point - something Idol just isnt anymore. Simon has sussed how to manipulate the whole thing by using the media and the show just BUZZES whilst its on - EVERYONE has an opinion -love it or hate it. Im afraid Idol is just "meh" with most people now. I think that would have been the case had Simon stayed or not as well. XF has moved with the times, Idol hasnt - but if it had, then I guess it would have already become XF. Idol could be killed off by mediocrity -when it isnt a talking point round the water coolers, then viewership will slide away at an alarming rate. Whatever happens with XF you know, before even a single second of footage has even been shot, that it will purposely contraversial, loud, brash and in your face. America WILL be talking about it whether they like it or not and that's what Simon has worked out.

    That's probably part of the reason I dropped XF completely this year, apart from a bit of youtubing, it's too over the top for me these days, and much to much about the judges, rather than the singers - not saying it's wrong, if it's want the public want then Simon's going to give it to them

    I really want Idol to get back on track, there are changes to the lives which I think could really work, I like the new panel so far, and quite frankly I don't think they could get the casting any worse then they did last year (although I wasn't highly impressed with anyone the year before either tbh)
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 860
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    NEW BOOK: American Idol Secrets Exposed

    Heavy drinking was rampant during the first season, mostly around flame red-haired rocker Nikki McKibbin, who scoured the streets of Hollywood looking for sushi bars to knock back shots before going on stage, and hid bottles in her hotel room.

    When her dreams of being a star dissolved, Texas native McKibbin gave into her demons years later when she became addicted to cocaine and hard drugs. A stint in hospital and a psychiatric ward in 2008 led to Nikki being cast on VH1's Celebrity Rehab and Sober House, and her eventual sobriety.

    Troubled McKibbin also talks to the author about judge Simon Cowell's backstage behavior. During one memorable encounter, "He told me that my eyes were beautiful and he wanted to take my eyeballs out of my head and put them on his nightstand so that he could look at them every night before he went to bed, and I pretty much in a nutshell told he was a perv and kind of creepy," McKibbin claims in the expose. :eek:

    "He was never nice to me after that.

    Source
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    Agent KrycekAgent Krycek Posts: 39,269
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    Ajar wrote: »
    NEW BOOK: American Idol Secrets Exposed

    Heavy drinking was rampant during the first season, mostly around flame red-haired rocker Nikki McKibbin, who scoured the streets of Hollywood looking for sushi bars to knock back shots before going on stage, and hid bottles in her hotel room.

    When her dreams of being a star dissolved, Texas native McKibbin gave into her demons years later when she became addicted to cocaine and hard drugs. A stint in hospital and a psychiatric ward in 2008 led to Nikki being cast on VH1's Celebrity Rehab and Sober House, and her eventual sobriety.

    Troubled McKibbin also talks to the author about judge Simon Cowell's backstage behavior. During one memorable encounter, "He told me that my eyes were beautiful and he wanted to take my eyeballs out of my head and put them on his nightstand so that he could look at them every night before he went to bed, and I pretty much in a nutshell told he was a perv and kind of creepy," McKibbin claims in the expose. :eek:

    "He was never nice to me after that.

    Source

    Who knew Cowell was the inspiration for Jeff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hstPHM3R1dY :D
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    That's probably part of the reason I dropped XF completely this year, apart from a bit of youtubing, it's too over the top for me these days, and much to much about the judges, rather than the singers - not saying it's wrong, if it's want the public want then Simon's going to give it to them

    I really want Idol to get back on track, there are changes to the lives which I think could really work, I like the new panel so far, and quite frankly I don't think they could get the casting any worse then they did last year (although I wasn't highly impressed with anyone the year before either tbh)

    In an ideal world there is probably room for both shows with some intrinsic changes. The Audition format is over long and dull - too much padding. After 10 seasons we know the drill. The four hours of audition program a week Idol has started with is overkill for a start. "Hollywood week / Bootcamp" could made longer than the auditions - show some characters in depth, get to know and care about them - would make the final chop more interesting. I always loved the days when Idol got the contestants in groups and it always went tits up - it was awesome entertainment. It would also give the producers a chance to choose the RIGHT final 12 - ones that will have some spark and avoid the dull void of personality from Season 9.

    On the flip side, XF could be the "in your face" sparkly, over the top cousin - better suited to the novelty acts and the judges spats. We know XF is manipulated to an inch of its life for the sake of "entertainment" - I know it and accept it - but many people take umbridge with that way of doing things - Im not entirely sure Idol's core audience will nessacarily migrate to XF - (which is probably by design) so they can afford to go out and appeal to the younger (not so jaded) demographic.

    Most definitely room for both shows but we shall see.
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    Who knew Cowell was the inspiration for Jeff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hstPHM3R1dY :D

    Simon hadnt read his "Tips On How to Convincingly Chat Up Girls For Not Quite Straight Men" (present from Max, Xmas 2001 :D) back then obviously ;)
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    dexydaldexydal Posts: 1,396
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    I feel there is room for both shows too. If XF takes on the format of ours it is entirely different to Idol. The problem might come with XF having to accept the Idol rejects and eventually we will see the same contestants on both shows during the audition process.

    As Allie says and I have always maintained, XF is an entertainment show, if they find a star it's a bonus. Idol tends to be more serious and there is no doubt they have uncovered bigger stars. On saying that, I know which one I would rather watch, I like to be entertained on a Saturday night. Perhaps Idol would do better to go towards the Fame Academy format and show itself to be a television program for serious performers. I for one would be more likely to watch it then.

    Idol seems to have lost itself by trying to be all things and not doing any of them particularly well. They can't replicate what Simon brought to it in wit and one liners. So I feel they should move away from trying to bring in the humour and concentrate on the talent, with a panel of professionals from within the music business.

    JMO
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    DE53DE53 Posts: 2,641
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    allie5 wrote: »
    Simon hadnt read his "Tips On How to Convincingly Chat Up Girls For Not Quite Straight Men" (present from Max, Xmas 2001 :D) back then obviously ;)

    I have to admit if a bloke had said that to me it would have freaked me out :eek:
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,287
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    I think Idol will be dead on it's feet. Give it a couple more seasons and that will be that. US XF will take over and SImon, I'm sure, will see to that.
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    dexydaldexydal Posts: 1,396
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    Simon on Oprah's Masterclass last night. I'ts excellent, love the editing. Enjoy!

    Oprah's Masterclass
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    dexydal wrote: »
    Simon on Oprah's Masterclass last night. I'ts excellent, love the editing. Enjoy!

    Oprah's Masterclass

    Well that was REALLY good....what a lovely piece. Wasnt expecting much but it surpassed my expectations.

    Nice to see something different - I enjoyed that a lot :) .
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    ~Jane~~Jane~ Posts: 2,338
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    How long is it on for? I can't stream for bvery long, my internet is rubbish!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 860
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    ~Jane~ wrote: »
    How long is it on for? I can't stream for bvery long, my internet is rubbish!

    Four clips =~ 43'
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,458
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    I think Idol will be dead on it's feet. Give it a couple more seasons and that will be that. US XF will take over and SImon, I'm sure, will see to that.

    Tried to watch Am. Idol yesterday, had no interest without Simon turned off after first ear bashing :yawn:
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    allie5allie5 Posts: 4,554
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    Just a few observations on the Master Class program.

    I found it intriguing that in the first part of the interview he told how shy he was, and not confident in situations where he wasnt in control, yet went on to say how, in his early career, he would ask for jobs, gatecrash meetings and follow Pete Waterman round like a puppy dog - not really the actions of a shy, retiring soul! I love the way he is such an oxymoron and contradicts himself constantly - its quite endearing.

    Its also interesting that absolutely no mention was made of his private life - (I checked out a few of the other Master Class shows and the others all seem to have a little bit in there). I guess it wasnt particularly relevant to the subject matter (and probably produced a MUCH better show, as he becomes completely defensive and uncomfortable on that territory) but still a little sad we didnt get to see whats behind the powerhouse - what is it that drives him to want to be successful still, when he has already become a world wide household name? What exactly is it that motivates him to get up in the morning and work for 18 hours a day when he could spend it laying on a yacht...Id like to have seen a little bit more of an insight into what makes him happy - or, conversely, what causes these "dark moods" we hear reported of so often.

    Nonetheless, a very slick, nicely produced show that I enjoyed very much.

    Anyone else has thoughts on it?
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    dexydaldexydal Posts: 1,396
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    I can understand him feeling shy in situations he isn't confident in. The fact he followed Pete Waterman around adds up to me. He didn't try and take over, just quietly watch, listen and learn.

    I feel his early drive was the lifestyle he had seen his parents have and the money obviously. But as you say it would be interesting to know what drives him now. I don't feel the money is the main driving force, but I think his ego to be the biggest and the best at what he does is.

    I'm pleased it didn't go into his private life, I really don’t think a 'masterclass' is the place for that. He was hugely successful before he met Mezhgan anyway, so she didn't have an influence on his success. Perhaps with other people on the series their partners had a bearing on thier success and were standing beside them supporting them while they became successful.

    I don't think he will ever be someone who will be completely happy, he will always be striving for perfection in whatever he does in life. The dark moods are probably when the stress becomes too much to bear and he shuts himself away to work it out in his mind. But as you say it would have been nice to hear it from him, but perhaps that's too personal to him.

    I thought the show was put together brilliantly, it was different to how we usually see him and very enjoyable.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 860
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    I have yet to see it but any idea when this was filmed?
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    DE53DE53 Posts: 2,641
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    I totally get the first part it is possible to be confident professionally but shy personally. I don't think his personal life was relevant to this but i do think that is where the shyness and awkwardness sometimes shows up

    Originally i suppose he just wanted to make something of himself and earn lots of money (nothing wrong with that) but i doubt money is now the driving force. I'm sure he has enough to keep him going. It may be just the challenge or the power. Lying on a yatch would be pretty boring after the first couple of days, i think he would have to do something even if it was just his charity work

    As to what makes him happy - same as the rest of us probably but what causes dark moods, who knows? Maybe he dosen't know. Perhaps it's his personal life or depression. At the end of the day it,s none of our business, we just can't help being a little bit nosey :D
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,070
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    He really is shy. If you watch him on any talk show, particularly in the early days, he does so many nervous touches to his face/lips, he's clearly not confident; but professionally he is because in his mind, he is correct in what he's saying and is the best at what he does.

    I think he has a lot of self doubt, but has mostly worked out how to look confident whilst not feeling so secure inside, mainly down to his wit. Everyone who meets him says he's exactly the same in real life, except some comment that he seems 'softer', which i think is him out of 'TV mode'.

    I agree with Allie, i think his contstant contradictions in his character are very endearing and i'm not even sure he is aware of them all, which is what makes him interesting.

    I think he mostly has insecurities like the rest of us, but he sets his standards so high that he gets down by something which could be quite irrelevant, leading to these dark moods which he can't explain. I do wonder if he feels he hasn't fulfilled his personal life enough, in terms of what his parents expected/wanted from him, but i think for himself, he knows he has led his life the way he needed to.
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    dexydaldexydal Posts: 1,396
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    Some photos of Simon and Mezahgan leaving Mr Chows after the NTA's last night.

    Link
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