Did you do any campaigning for Remain? I did, and expended considerable effort trying to persuade people of the benefits of remaining.
You can only try to penetrate closed minds for so long before you get cynical.
As for DS, nobody ever changed a single mind on any subject on here.
On that we most certainly agree,
I used to ask myself why I waste so much of my time posting here, I certainly don't believe anyone has ever changed anyone's mind on any subject as you point out.
I came to the conclusion that it's not about changing minds or 'point scoring' it's about letting 'the other side' know they are not having it all their own way, and that people strongly disagree with them, and this goes for the entire political spectrum, so I suppose it does serve some purpose.
Did you do any campaigning for Remain? I did, and expended considerable effort trying to persuade people of the benefits of remaining.
You can only try to penetrate closed minds for so long before you get cynical.
As for DS, nobody ever changed a single mind on any subject on here.
that's not true, I use to think Corbyn was honest and well meaning even though I disagree completely with his politics. Then he got caught lying about his train journey and I realised he was just as bad as most other politicians.
On that we most certainly agree,
I used to ask myself why I waste so much of my time posting here, I certainly don't believe anyone has ever changed anyone's mind on any subject as you point out.
I came to the conclusion that it's not about changing minds or 'point scoring' it's about letting 'the other side' know they are not having it all their own way, and that people strongly disagree with them, and this goes for the entire political spectrum, so I suppose it does serve some purpose.
Nope.
Tweets:
Maybe when the old people who voted for #Brexit die, UK can meow in front of the door to get back in. If there's still EU on the other side.
Dear old people who voted brexit to "Get My Country Back". You can die now, your job is done, the young are ****ed. Don't let us detain you
Fret not, England. This will get reversed. Give it a few years for the stupid old bigots to die and try again. #brexit #bremain
thanks for screwing us over, old people. we won't forget when it's time to choose which care home you'll die in. #brexit
If remain won: no change. Leavers could always try again, no big deal. Relationship with EU unchanged, opt outs stay in place (and we'd have gained one more)
Now that leave won: massive upheaval. Remainers could try to get the country to rejoin, but even if they managed it, the EU may not take us back. They certainly won't give us the opt outs and special treatment that we enjoy today.
THAT is why some people are working to stop the whole process, because they'd rather avoid a "lost decade" where we realise things were better before - that which we can't get back once we leave.
Do you see the difference yet?
I see that you are trying to overturn the result of a democratic vote on the binary issue as to whether we stay in the EU or not.
It won't fail because any government will,, politically, have to get out of the EU, the ECJ and freedom of movement. We are stuck with a solution that will have terrible economic , diplomatic and strategic costs. Its going to be a 10-20 year wait before we decide that isolationism and a declining economy were a dumb choice, and wait for the Leave voting generations to die off enough . You can't reverse the referendum decison, or move closer to our European market, until the Leave vote declines to much lower figures that have much less political impact .
May will do the only thing possible politically. She will salvage as much economic free access as she can , satisfy as many Leave voters as possible, and hope she doesn't get the blame, for the results of leaving ,on spending and the economy.
The Leave vote will remain, and remain divided. The racists will be racists. The constitutionalists will either be happy, or not, with the degree of separation. The free trade enthusiasts will remain deluded, and blame others when we remain uncompetitive. And the people who assumed we would be better off, will have to decide who to blame - themselves, Leave leaders, or the government, for being poorer,
Indeed, if age groups cotinue to vote as in June, the leave margin of victory falls by about 10,000 a week.
Thats without people noticing they are getting poorer, jobs are vanishing, the Leave promises are proving delusional, and prices are rising.
the problem is no major political party is in a position with its own voters to change anything when the public decide they wnat another vote, and another result. Both parties would would lose votes to UKIP. They will prefer to wait until UKIP collapses, and its members revert to not voting or the extreme right parties, and more of the 65 plus genertaion have died off. .
I do wonder if some are shill Brexiters. I did say to aurichie on results morning that he was OK to come out as a Brexiter now (did you see some of his pre-referendum posts :eek:) I just couldn't comprehend that someone spitting so much bile could think they were doing their side any good. It was all an absolute gift for anyone that wanted Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving it seems.
Been thinking/saying for a while that certain "remainers" on here are just on a wind up.
I think there has to come a point where we come together, maybe just maybe the PM's much publicised speech is it.
Everyone has a stake in Brexit on both sides and of course their are many differing opinions as to what that should look like. That will be an ongoing arguement and lets face it, it is an arguement which probably won't be resolved until the A50 process is completed or resolved in itself.
If we accept the outcome (the referendum not A50) and not slander or name call other voters then maybe discussion could be a bit more polite but disagreeable.
It was blown with the first "you lost get over it"... soz.
Well that's a real what came first, chicken or egg, isn't it? The statement you quote is a response - to the stream of thick/ racist/ should be dead/ vitriol after the result and statements of determination to block the democratic result.
The 'first punch', so to speak, was definitely thrown by the angry losers and after a while rational people became tired of the bedroom door slamming-style antics... as you do.
Nope.
Tweets:
Maybe when the old people who voted for #Brexit die, UK can meow in front of the door to get back in. If there's still EU on the other side.
Dear old people who voted brexit to "Get My Country Back". You can die now, your job is done, the young are ****ed. Don't let us detain you
Fret not, England. This will get reversed. Give it a few years for the stupid old bigots to die and try again. #brexit #bremain
thanks for screwing us over, old people. we won't forget when it's time to choose which care home you'll die in. #brexit
So did my mum, who's 66. And she's as disgusted by everything that's happening as the young people I know.
And I still think pushing a hard brexit agenda and trying to tell people to stop insults is a joke. It's going to encourage insults even more. The entire 48% of the remain vote has been ignored, as has a reasonable amount of the leave vote. In anything behaving in this way is going to tear the country further apart. Especially if (when) it goes badly.
I'm certainly not going to "come together" and "unite" over a hard brexit agenda that's the total opposite of what I voted for and what I want.
May's a joke. A laughing stock.... though, at the same time, one of the unfunniest jokes ever.
Just about all the Tories have done for the past 7 years is cause division.
They've fascistically demonised the unemployed, sick, disabled, welfare claimants, immigrants, unions & more; widened the gap between rich and poor to record levels; taken the union (UK) to nigh on breaking point; turned pro-EU and anti-EU people against each other, resulting in families breaking apart...
...and now May has the audacity to talk about "burning injustices", "shared society", and "urging people to give up on insults and division and unite to build a global Britain."
Thatcher was divisive, but Cameron/May and cronies are on a whole new level of divisiveness.
Why should anyone who hasn't had a lobotomy believe a word that they say?
Comments
On that we most certainly agree,
I used to ask myself why I waste so much of my time posting here, I certainly don't believe anyone has ever changed anyone's mind on any subject as you point out.
I came to the conclusion that it's not about changing minds or 'point scoring' it's about letting 'the other side' know they are not having it all their own way, and that people strongly disagree with them, and this goes for the entire political spectrum, so I suppose it does serve some purpose.
that's not true, I use to think Corbyn was honest and well meaning even though I disagree completely with his politics. Then he got caught lying about his train journey and I realised he was just as bad as most other politicians.
You are just making stuff up now.
I agree.
Nope.
Tweets:
Maybe when the old people who voted for #Brexit die, UK can meow in front of the door to get back in. If there's still EU on the other side.
Dear old people who voted brexit to "Get My Country Back". You can die now, your job is done, the young are ****ed. Don't let us detain you
Fret not, England. This will get reversed. Give it a few years for the stupid old bigots to die and try again. #brexit #bremain
thanks for screwing us over, old people. we won't forget when it's time to choose which care home you'll die in. #brexit
And plenty more here
http://heatst.com/world/remains-ageism-following-the-brexit-eu-referendum-is-vile/
I see that you are trying to overturn the result of a democratic vote on the binary issue as to whether we stay in the EU or not.
For example........
Been thinking/saying for a while that certain "remainers" on here are just on a wind up.
Everyone has a stake in Brexit on both sides and of course their are many differing opinions as to what that should look like. That will be an ongoing arguement and lets face it, it is an arguement which probably won't be resolved until the A50 process is completed or resolved in itself.
If we accept the outcome (the referendum not A50) and not slander or name call other voters then maybe discussion could be a bit more polite but disagreeable.
Or is that a pipe dream?
It was blown with the first "you lost get over it"... soz.
Well that's a real what came first, chicken or egg, isn't it? The statement you quote is a response - to the stream of thick/ racist/ should be dead/ vitriol after the result and statements of determination to block the democratic result.
The 'first punch', so to speak, was definitely thrown by the angry losers and after a while rational people became tired of the bedroom door slamming-style antics... as you do.
Well this "old person" voted remain.
So did my mum, who's 66. And she's as disgusted by everything that's happening as the young people I know.
And I still think pushing a hard brexit agenda and trying to tell people to stop insults is a joke. It's going to encourage insults even more. The entire 48% of the remain vote has been ignored, as has a reasonable amount of the leave vote. In anything behaving in this way is going to tear the country further apart. Especially if (when) it goes badly.
I'm certainly not going to "come together" and "unite" over a hard brexit agenda that's the total opposite of what I voted for and what I want.
Just about all the Tories have done for the past 7 years is cause division.
They've fascistically demonised the unemployed, sick, disabled, welfare claimants, immigrants, unions & more; widened the gap between rich and poor to record levels; taken the union (UK) to nigh on breaking point; turned pro-EU and anti-EU people against each other, resulting in families breaking apart...
...and now May has the audacity to talk about "burning injustices", "shared society", and "urging people to give up on insults and division and unite to build a global Britain."
Thatcher was divisive, but Cameron/May and cronies are on a whole new level of divisiveness.
Why should anyone who hasn't had a lobotomy believe a word that they say?