What Josie did next...?

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  • NaughtyNanNaughtyNan Posts: 9,445
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    I just watched the Fern's show and on there Josie came across as normal/happy to me. If she isn't then she is damn good actress. :cool: I am not a fan didn't vote for her once but she comes across as normal. :p
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,826
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    aggs wrote: »
    While I appreciate why Appreciation threads and can also see why they have been segregated in to the attic region, that is one of the big negatives of them, to me.

    Posting in an area which is so resolutely positive and appreciative (to me) leads to one way thinking.

    Posting on the main forum, taking part in the more cut and thrust while more challenging is actually more rounded (to me). It stops the bulking up of one side and the withering of another, and stops the appreciation-with-a-limp scenario.

    Yes, although I've latterly posted quite a lot on an AT, at heart am an MF poster because it's much easier to have a warts n all discussion about an HM. Hard to do that on an AT without upsetting some folks.

    But the Josie phenomenon is I think somewhat unique .... in the degree of almost total segregation. Couldn't think of any HM were this had happened before to such an extent. I was trying to rationalise the difference by comparison with BB12 and Aaron. With the latter, even though the forum was clearly pro-Aaron, there were still plenty of posters objecting to the MF cut and thrust and taking themselves off to the AT to have "sensible" discussions. Well in Josie's case the forum was never pro-Josie so it's perhaps not surprising by comparison with Aaron that her supporters decided to avoid MF and congregate solely in the ATs (or even not bother with DS). That creates a double problem. Not just an idealised version of Josie in the ATs . . . . but also an ogre-ised version of Josie in the MF. At least with Aaron, on MF there has been proper 2-way discussion about him. With Josie, that hasn't really happened since the end of BB11. :(
  • GrecomaniaGrecomania Posts: 19,581
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    You can't really change it though can you?

    I mean if people were on the MF and just relaying someones Tweets, non-fans would just be screeching, WTF, just follow them on Twitter.

    Appreciation Threads happened for a reason, and one of the reasons is to stop all discussions coming round to the same boring grudges, whenever an HM is mentioned in a new thread.
  • mindyannmindyann Posts: 20,264
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    Yes, although I've latterly posted quite a lot on an AT, at heart am an MF poster because it's much easier to have a warts n all discussion about an HM. Hard to do that on an AT without upsetting some folks.

    But the Josie phenomenon is I think somewhat unique .... in the degree of almost total segregation. Couldn't think of any HM were this had happened before to such an extent. I was trying to rationalise the difference by comparison with BB12 and Aaron. With the latter, even though the forum was clearly pro-Aaron, there were still plenty of posters objecting to the MF cut and thrust and taking themselves off to the AT to have "sensible" discussions. Well in Josie's case the forum was never pro-Josie so it's perhaps not surprising by comparison with Aaron that her supporters decided to avoid MF and congregate solely in the ATs (or even not bother with DS). That creates a double problem. Not just an idealised version of Josie in the ATs . . . . but also an ogre-ised version of Josie in the MF. At least with Aaron, on MF there has been proper 2-way discussion about him. With Josie, that hasn't really happened since the end of BB11. :(

    I think one of the problems is the lack of anyone to, if you like, take the heat off.

    I've never known a BB where there was no opposition either in the house or on the boards.

    Looking back to other BB's all the main characters had some one to bounce off and take some of the heat. Kate v Alex still causes ructions, Rex and Rachel, Nikki and Ais is always on the boil but with Josie there was John James which was one and the same.

    Sam, possibly for a couple of day, but by then the outcome was pretty well established and by the time of the free pass it was all over bar the announcement.

    It wasn't even like BB7 where there was still a slim (albeit very slim) chance that Ais or Glynn could have give Pete a run for his money. It was Josie or .... who?

    I think it was a chicken and egg situation - Josie's support on the MF dwindled as the show became more about her/JJ/the relationship and The joint apprecation thread went wild and racked though tens of parts in as many days and all the ying to that yang storylines faded away.
  • mindyannmindyann Posts: 20,264
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    You can't really change it though can you?

    I mean if people were on the MF and just relaying someones Tweets, non-fans would just be screeching, WTF, just follow them on Twitter.

    Appreciation Threads happened for a reason, and one of the reasons is to stop all discussions coming round to the same boring grudges, whenever an HM is mentioned in a new thread.

    I've actually never noticed that not happening :D:D
  • circle gamecircle game Posts: 1,696
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    Well in Josie's case the forum was never pro-Josie so it's perhaps not surprising by comparison with Aaron that her supporters decided to avoid MF and congregate solely in the ATs (or even not bother with DS). That creates a double problem. Not just an idealised version of Josie in the ATs . . . . but also an ogre-ised version of Josie in the MF.][/

    I agree with this Alex. I came to DS during BB11, knowing nothing about ATs etc - it was a while before I realised what the 'MF' was! And I was shocked at the animosity towards Josie, I genuinely was. I read the MF Ts and Cs, which suggest that all points of view are acceptable; I was at a loss as to why there was such a preponderance of anti-Josie sentiiment. I was, I admit, a complete novice.

    I'm wiser now, or at least more clued up, and I can enjoy the banter on a thread like the court thread, or this new Josie one....but dislike of Josie, and sometimes quite intense dislike, is the default setting on these threads. Josie supporters tend to regard the MF as hostile territory, and they stay away, that's their choice. I do enjoy the element of debate, that's why I'm here, and I do find the ATs somewhat sanitised, although I've enjoyed them in the past.

    So yes, I agree that opinions of Josie have become polarised, with the Josie supporters avoiding exposure to any criticism of her, and the detractors reinforcing this view of her as a figure of ridicule, or sometimes worse. In fact a recent post on here says that the poster's opinions are formed by the selected (and not necessarily representative) tweets and gossip column quotes cited on the court thread.

    It would be nice if this particular thread, about what Josie did next, could be a bit more balanced, a bit less hysterical. But as seansnotmyname has just said, its up to the DS membership, who tend to be a conservative bunch!:D
  • GrecomaniaGrecomania Posts: 19,581
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    mindyann wrote: »
    I've actually never noticed that not happening :D:D


    Yeah, good point, I should say to lessen it happening. For instance if there was a thread started over every mag shoot or TV show that a contestant was involved in, you can bet there'd be about 5 simultaneous similar arguments, as I think used to happen before Appreciation threads
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,826
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    mindyann wrote: »
    Looking back to other BB's all the main characters had some one to bounce off and take some of the heat. Kate v Alex still causes ructions, Rex and Rachel, Nikki and Ais is always on the boil but with Josie there was John James which was one and the same.

    I guess the closest rival for most of the show was Ben (until he was evicted 2/3rds of the way through). My reading of DS forum during BB11 was Ben supporters were the strongest presence on MF. Both John and Josie came in for massive criticism on MF and their supporters in general retired to the AT. Whilst the John supporters have returned to MF, the Josie supporters never did. But with none of the other rivalries you list did either group of supporters abandon MF for the sanctuary of the AT iirc. Yet that's what happened in BB11.

    My theory is that JJJ attracted a type of supporter who hasn't typically got involved in DSBB posting and who found the MF cut and thrust style not to their taste. They claim to prefer a diet of the positive (although we all witnessed their acceptance of the negative when it came to other HMs targeted by JJJ). And that also helps explain why we so consistently hear these complaints about any negative views being expressed about HMs. I love Rachel Rice (BB9), but it doesn't hurt me when I read the criticisms about her in MF, so what is it about Josie or her supporters which makes so many of them react differently? Again, I can't help but feel it's due mainly to a different type of supporter that each attracts.
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    augusta92 wrote: »
    BIB it is lovely to agree and to reach a bit more of a consensus:D.....the only thing id like to point out...is that none of the group you have mentioned....were total Josie fans...or ardent Josie supporters......

    yes we were JJJ supporters/defenders and I know ive always been more of a John supporter than Josie, but I dont think ive often seen that many just Josie fans on the MF.

    It might sound pretty silly and petty to make the distinction, but I am reasonably aware of where most peoples allegiances lie....and im aware that virtually none of Josie's muckers ever posted sensibly on the court thread, ....let alone on the MF. So it hasnt ever been a completely even playing field.

    so there have been times that it has sounded extremely critical of Josie.....and there hasnt always been that good a balance....:confused:

    im not sure exactly why this is......... maybe its just that most of Josie's fans or muckers dont chose to post that much on DS?

    I think if you look at Facebook and Twitter it's obvious that only a small number of people who are still involved with the John and Josie discussions are on DS anymore, if they were at all. I've got to know supporters who were never on DS and I realise we (JJJ/JJ/J followers then or now) on DS are the minority. The JJJAT is bare these days - don't even bring over Josie's tweets; John AT - we are waiting for further news but keep in touch; Josie AT is the most active, obviously, as Josie is the most active of the two - but still when they list who has posted most over a month, they have about 25-35 FMs all in all, nothing near the number of Josie supporters who tweet her.

    Re. your BIB, it made me think to myself who I preferred of the two during BB - it was probably Josie, although I found John the more interesting to discuss. I only started re-assessing my thoughts regarding Josie after the abortion article.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,153
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    I guess the closest rival for most of the show was Ben (until he was evicted 2/3rds of the way through). My reading of DS forum during BB11 was Ben supporters were the strongest presence on MF. Both John and Josie came in for massive criticism on MF and their supporters in general retired to the AT. Whilst the John supporters have returned to MF, the Josie supporters never did. But with none of the other rivalries you list did either group of supporters abandon MF for the sanctuary of the AT iirc. Yet that's what happened in BB11.

    My theory is that JJJ attracted a type of supporter who hasn't typically got involved in DSBB posting and who found the MF cut and thrust style not to their taste. They claim to prefer a diet of the positive (although we all witnessed their acceptance of the negative when it came to other HMs targeted by JJJ). And that's also why we consistently hear these criticisms about any negative views being expressed about HMs
    Well they certainly did seem to form a distinctly separate group with a completely different mindset ... and their very own system of spelling, syntax and grammar ... that in itself I find absolutely fascinating and worthy of observation ... neither better nor worse IMHO ... (:eek:) ... but totally and utterly FASCINATING ... the way these things divide down straight lines and the way in which the two camps have completely separate styles in every possible way ... well, it really is an absolute eye-opener ... and tells me more about the state of the UK in this era than most other sources which are out there ... :) ... it's a sociological and linguistic study, that it is ... :cool:
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    I guess the closest rival for most of the show was Ben (until he was evicted 2/3rds of the way through). My reading of DS forum during BB11 was Ben supporters were the strongest presence on MF. Both John and Josie came in for massive criticism on MF and their supporters in general retired to the AT. Whilst the John supporters have returned to MF, the Josie supporters never did. But with none of the other rivalries you list did either group of supporters abandon MF for the sanctuary of the AT iirc. Yet that's what happened in BB11.

    My theory is that JJJ attracted a type of supporter who hasn't typically got involved in DSBB posting and who found the MF cut and thrust style not to their taste. They claim to prefer a diet of the positive (although we all witnessed their acceptance of the negative when it came to other HMs targeted by JJJ). And that's also why we consistently hear these criticisms about any negative views being expressed about HMs

    I do remember when the MF was mentioned occasionally that there would be some FMs on the JJJAT who didn't know there was a MF, let alone a whole world of threads not even related to Big Brother! Google John and Josie and the AT would be listed, people would go straight through to it, bookmark the link, and never venture beyond the confines of the thread. It was quite insular.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,254
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    Well they certainly did seem to form a distinctly separate group with a completely different mindset ... and their very own system of spelling, syntax and grammar ... that in itself I find absolutely fascinating and worthy of observation ... neither better nor worse IMHO ... (:eek:) ... but totally and utterly FASCINATING ... the way these things divide down straight lines and the way in which the two camps have completely separate styles in every possible way ... well, it really is an absolute eye-opener ... and tells me more about the state of the UK in this era than most other sources which are out there ... :) ... it's a sociological and linguistic study, that it is ... :cool:
    I hold my hands up spelling grammar syntax very poor despite going to Uni lol my mother would be disgusted that she wasted her money on my private education . My main problem is my one finger typing yep I'm blaming it on that . It doesn't make my opinion any less worthy just another opinion
  • circle gamecircle game Posts: 1,696
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    Well they certainly did seem to form a distinctly separate group with a completely different mindset ... and their very own system of spelling, syntax and grammar ... that in itself I find absolutely fascinating and worthy of observation ... neither better nor worse IMHO ... (:eek:) ... but totally and utterly FASCINATING ... the way these things divide down straight lines and the way in which the two camps have completely separate styles in every possible way ... well, it really is an absolute eye-opener ... and tells me more about the state of the UK in this era than most other sources which are out there ... :) ... it's a sociological and linguistic study, that it is ... :cool:

    I don't see this at all, Ultra.....BIBs in particular, I just don't get. If you're being ironic, then I do get it, but I suspect you're not.:confused: But I'm also looking beyond DS, I wonder if you're just looking at DS.

    I don't see clear cut 'sides', I don't see straight dividing lines, I see lots of individuals with slightly differing views, swarming around a few queens, just like bees.:D Lots of rough edges, indistinct lines. And in between: a waste ground with a few 'lost soul' bees, like myself!:D
  • circle gamecircle game Posts: 1,696
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    muggins14 wrote: »
    I do remember when the MF was mentioned occasionally that there would be some FMs on the JJJAT who didn't know there was a MF, let alone a whole world of threads not even related to Big Brother! Google John and Josie and the AT would be listed, people would go straight through to it, bookmark the link, and never venture beyond the confines of the thread. It was quite insular.

    I used to follow BB on the Channel 4 website and then one day there was a link to the JJJAT and that's how I found it!:eek: I had no idea there was a 'MF' and it was a while before I found out what it was!
  • circle gamecircle game Posts: 1,696
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    PICKLES60 wrote: »
    I hold my hands up spelling grammar syntax very poor despite going to Uni lol my mother would be disgusted that she wasted her money on my private education . My main problem is my one finger typing yep I'm blaming it on that .

    There is poor spelling and grammar from posters of all persuasions Pickles....your posts are always clear and easy to follow, so do not feel you have to defend yourself!:)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,254
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    There is poor spelling and grammar from posters of all persuasions Pickles....your posts are always clear and easy to follow, so do not feel you have to defend yourself!:)
    I agree,proof read Pickles lol anyway sorry btw Annie I keep calling you Circle time in my posts instead of circle game
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    PICKLES60 wrote: »
    I hold my hands up spelling grammar syntax very poor despite going to Uni lol my mother would be disgusted that she wasted her money on my private education . My main problem is my one finger typing yep I'm blaming it on that . It doesn't make my opinion any less worthy just another opinion

    lol you do well, one finger!

    I am always wary of discussing people's posting styles, whether they can spell or put a sentence together in a grammatically correct style; it's what is said that's important, not how it's spelt or put together. We aren't here to take an English exam :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,826
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    muggins14 wrote: »
    lol you do well, one finger!

    I am always wary of discussing people's posting styles, whether they can spell or put a sentence together in a grammatically correct style; it's what is said that's important, not how it's spelt or put together. We aren't here to take an English exam :D

    It's against T&C as well if your not careful. Great rule imo! :cool:

    *awaits the wrath of God* :p:D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,254
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    muggins14 wrote: »
    lol you do well, one finger!

    I am always wary of discussing people's posting styles, whether they can spell or put a sentence together in a grammatically correct style; it's what is said that's important, not how it's spelt or put together. We aren't here to take an English exam :D
    Well obviously there are some very articulate posters on all the threads and your eyes are definitely drawn to those posts. I am much more interested in what people say than how they spell or present their posts though I so agree
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    PICKLES60 wrote: »
    Well obviously there are some very articulate posters on all the threads and your eyes are definitely drawn to those posts. I am much more interested in what people say than how they spell or present their posts though I so agree

    Some amazingly articulate people yes, I am in awe and often feel inferior lol, but they are a great read yes :)
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    It's against T&C as well if your not careful. Great rule imo! :cool:

    *awaits the wrath of God* :p:D

    Don't worry, I'm 'in' with God ;) haha
  • muggins14muggins14 Posts: 61,844
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    Does anybody know if Josie was going to the Soccer Six event that's being held. Looks like an amazing six-aside event; somebody did tweet that she was meant to be going didn't they?

    edit: Ignore that she's in Brighton
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,918
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    just lost wrote: »
    seems josie is still following mr malarky as she retweeted him yesterday.
    http://twitiq.com/_/t/207960248684785665.

    also someone brought this to my attention a few moments ago. http://yfrog.com/nx3fyydj a picture of luke and josie both with a drink in hand, i thought josie was off the drink.

    Can you imagin the stink if John James retweeted BilliBhatti !
  • VeriVeri Posts: 96,996
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    Yes, although I've latterly posted quite a lot on an AT, at heart am an MF poster because it's much easier to have a warts n all discussion about an HM. Hard to do that on an AT without upsetting some folks.
    ...
    But there's a difference between a warns n all discussion and a discussion that's treated as a "debate" (with a lot of point-scoring and debating tactics etc) and where many of the "warts" that are repeatedly mentioned are greatly exaggerated or outright false. That sort of thing can become tiresome rather quickly.

    Appreciation threads aren't all the same, and there have certainly times when it was possible to have a better discussion in an AT than in the main forum.
  • VeriVeri Posts: 96,996
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    AlexBB3 wrote: »
    Great to see a thread about Josie with an element of 2-way discussion for a change. Hope Josie supporters will continue to post in here because, although I have a low opinion of her, she's clearly done well out of the BB experience and I'd like to hear the positive stuff about her too (as long as it's not PR whitewash!) ;)

    The main problem I see is the almost complete segregation of pro and anti Josie camps on DS, with little cross-dialogue nearly 2 years on to help narrow the gap and temper the certainty of opinion each side has. I guess the combination of two antagonisms (first the pro and anti Josie, then the Josie v John) makes it particularly difficult to have a really honest discussion. So just wanted to say great that you, Circle and few others are engaging rationally in here to inject a bit of balance.
    But would it temper the certainty of opinion each side has? I don't think that's happened in other cases. Was the certainty of opinion about Aisleyne, for example, tempered by the discussion taking place almost entirely in the main forum? I don't think it was. (Though I suppose fans sites may have been a factor.)

    Two replies to Alex's post:
    aggs wrote: »
    While I appreciate why Appreciation threads and can also see why they have been segregated in to the attic region, that is one of the big negatives of them, to me.
    They were segregated because a (small) number of people were trying to get them abolished, one of their arguments was that there were times when most of the forum's front page was taken up by appreciation threads, making other threads hard to find, and putting the ATs in a sub-forum seemed a reasonable compromise.
    Posting in an area which is so resolutely positive and appreciative (to me) leads to one way thinking.

    Posting on the main forum, taking part in the more cut and thrust while more challenging is actually more rounded (to me). It stops the bulking up of one side and the withering of another, and stops the appreciation-with-a-limp scenario.
    I don't think it does stop the bulking up of one side. The forum has often become very one-sided despite people on both sides taking part in the main forum.
    I agree with this, but only to a certain extent. Posters like Deefs, Muggins, Augusta, Wee Tinkers, Efty and a few more who were fans of both or either at one stage and with whom those of us always in the 'fake' camp argued quite vociferously for months are now people I find myself agreeing with most of the time. The cross dialogue has been going on for some time. Given it's confrontational origins, it's remarkable that the court thread has kept going for so long. The gap has been narrowing consistently for a long time.
    ...
    Has the gap been narrowing by both sides moving to more moderate views? Or has the change mostly been movement on the pro-Josie side, becoming less pro-Josie? I haven't followed such things closely, so could well be wrong, but whenever I have dipped into the court thread or other Josie-related threads, the anti-Josie side seems as anti as ever.
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