As posters have said, america does spend a far lower % on welfare costs than we do, and it doesn't have an NHS. I do believe though that sales tax covers everything you buy in America, whereas in the UK VAT is not charged on certain items, such as kid clothes, some foods etc.
No, as mentioned earlier in the thread it varies from state to state.
If you're out of work over there you are expected to move to where the work is. The kind of cross-generational welfare dependency we have over here simply does not exist in the US.
I suppose many of the 14.3 % of unemployed in Nevada will be moving to North Dakota where unemployment is only 3.8% then?
Seriously, did you just post the first thing that came into your head regarding US worker mobility or do you actually have a link that backs up your post?
As posters have said, america does spend a far lower % on welfare costs than we do, and it doesn't have an NHS. I do believe though that sales tax covers everything you buy in America, whereas in the UK VAT is not charged on certain items, such as kid clothes, some foods etc.
Yes but Canada has an NHS like system and other welfare services but its sales tax is very low, and varies from from nothing to a maximum of around 13% depending on which province you are in.
Seriously, did you just post the first thing that came into your head regarding US worker mobility or do you actually have a link that backs up your post?
Why would they move to North Dakota yuck!, the economy will rebound. Right now they can get I think it's almost 2 years of unemployment benefits, and the federal gov't just approved another 13 months of Unemployment Insurance benefits.
There is movement though most people are heading south and west, Texas is booming, Florida is growing quickly. Arizona is also growing.
Yes but Canada has an NHS like system and other welfare services but its sales tax is very low, and varies from from nothing to a maximum of around 13% depending on which province you are in.
You seem to be comparing only sales taxes. What's the overall amount of taxation like in each of the countries you're talking about?
Why would they move to North Dakota yuck!, the economy will rebound. Right now they can get I think it's almost 2 years of unemployment benefits, and the federal gov't just approved another 13 months of Unemployment Insurance benefits.
There is movement though most people are heading south and west, Texas is booming, Florida is growing quickly. Arizona is also growing.
I think a bit of a myth has grown over here that Americans don't have any welfare systems in place. As well as unemployment benefits don't you have food stamps and such like too?
I think Americans have much lower expectations of their government than we do. If you're out of work over there you are expected to move to where the work is. The kind of cross-generational welfare dependency we have over here simply does not exist in the US.
America has areas of deprivation where exactly that happens unfortunately. Anyway if that were the case, how does that explain US unemployment being 9.8% while the UK is 7.9%?
The natural resources of Canada and the US are huge compared to us. Which of course will generate money through tax. We're just a nation of shopkeepers!
The poster used percentages, not actual numbers. That's not how percentages work.
I am well aware how percentage works. I have certificates to prove it. My point is that in a large country/state with a low population density it is natural to expect that the unemployment rate is going to be lower. This is even more likely in a State such as North Dakota - you either have a job or you leave. That keeps unemployment low.
I think a bit of a myth has grown over here that Americans don't have any welfare systems in place. As well as unemployment benefits don't you have food stamps and such like too?
Myths are fine, it's when you get the occasional poster who swears they're right about something they've no idea of that it gets annoying as was displayed early in this thread. If i've got a bit of an idea on a subject but i'm not completely sure, i say what i think is the case and ask if that's correct as i think do most posters.
Yes there is a benefit system of sorts and there are food stamps available and various means to assist those out of work. They don't necessarily get money but may get other assistance to ensure they don't go cold or do without food or essentials.
It's not the same as the UK where you definitely get cash though.
Why is the UK and indeed European VAT rates so high compared to other non-EU developed countries like the US and Canada.
Sales Tax in the US is 10% and in Canada, its around 13% and in some states and provinces its even less than this.
Yes you could argue that we in Europe get more public services like the NHS compared to the US.
But then again Canada has very similar public services like we do including a free health service and also their economy is smaller than the UK's yet they can can still keep their taxes low?
Is Europe a rip off?
Well, sales taxes go into the same treasury pots at both a federal and local level as all other taxes, so you can't just look at one tax in particular. Arguably, one should have a reasonable weighting towards a sales tax on luxury goods with exemptions on necessities, as this is more progressive and less regressive. What you need to look at is the overall tax burden (the total, average tax one pays) and then trade that off against private compulsory expenditure.
The remaining difference can be accounted for by the different levels of GDP/Capita and particular spending requirements for the region. Ontario, for example, seems like a particularly good bet because it has a lot of natural resources for the population that lives there, so they don't really need to tax as heavily. That said, ON is not without its expenses and problems (I know the province quite well).
Yes but Canada has an NHS like system and other welfare services but its sales tax is very low, and varies from from nothing to a maximum of around 13% depending on which province you are in.
Canada's health system is nothing like the British NHS. It is more like the French system with private healthcare providers claiming against a provincial or federal insurance scheme.
Here's in interesting graph showing the cost-effectiveness of various country's schemes:
Right....let's all move to the US for their sales taxes!
It is swings and roundabouts though. Sales taxes may be lower depending on where you are. The cost of living may well be lower too. You may well earn more money.
On the other hand you get less paid vacation time, not as little as two weeks as someone suggested but still less. An example being that in the UK I got 25 days paid vacation plus 8 paid Bank Holidays. In the US doing the same job for the same company i get 15 days paid vacation plus 10 paid federal holidays, two of which i can take any time, plus one occasional day, plus two personal days.
You get to pay various taxes depending on your location and of course you get to pay for medical, dental, optical care plus pensions and the other usual stuff. Basically you probably get more deductions from your income than in the UK though it is likely to be higher and the cost of living is lower.
In the end i reckon you're possibly a little better off in the US than in the UK but the gap isn't really that big when you factor everything in.
Americans may pay less tax (although food tends to be more expensive to begin with) but it is not uncommon for someone to pay thousands of dollars a year on health insurance so it's swings and roundabouts.
Also, the fact that fuel taxes are so low in the USA simply means that there has never been any incentive to build more fuel-efficient cars. Until the last few years a 2.0 litre engine in a European car was the biggest you would expect in a family-size car. In America that would be considered a small runabout.
There is no value added tax in the US. Each state has its own sales tax rate (plus, there are taxes on top of that for certain items such as cigarettes, alcohol and gas.) It is around 6% in my state, although I avoid paying any sales tax on lots of items by ordering online through a retailer like Amazon.
Gas is around $2.50-3 a gallon. The fuel economy standards definitely need to improve in this country. I see a lot of SUVs on the roads, but I drive a fairly fuel efficient vehicle (probably not by European standards.) The reality is that Americans will always drive more miles than Brits. Our public transportation systems are not as good as the public transportation systems in Europe & things are much more widely spread out here.
I think a bit of a myth has grown over here that Americans don't have any welfare systems in place. As well as unemployment benefits don't you have food stamps and such like too?
Yes, there are TOO MANY government programs in my opinion. Too many freeloaders are allowed to live off productive American tax payers. Welfare is supposed to be a temporary program (2 years), but I suspect lots of people have found ways around that limit. Not only is there welfare, but food stamps (50 million+ Americans are on food stamps), Medicaid (free health care for the poor), government-subsidized housing for the poor, government subsidized low energy rates for the poor, etc.
I wouldn't move somewhere solely for the tax rates haha, but I do think the United States has some good things going for it. I also think the UK look pretty cool too, everything I've seen of Scotland looks awesome.
UK VAT used to be a comparable rate to US sales tax, but the Thatcher government decided to transfer taxation from incomes to spending. VAT was increased from 8% to 15%, then to 17.5%. It's all down to how the tax take is divided up.
UK VAT used to be a comparable rate to US sales tax, but the Thatcher government decided to transfer taxation from incomes to spending. VAT was increased from 8% to 15%, then to 17.5%. It's all down to how the tax take is divided up.
And due to us being in the EUSSR we can never lower our VAT to less then 15% even if we wanted to. Disgraceful.
Comments
No, as mentioned earlier in the thread it varies from state to state.
It's good here isn't it?
From a consumer point of view a sales tax and VAT are very similar but they are different from an accounting point of view.
A Sales tax is a tax on just that - Sales to the end consumer.
VAT is a tax on sales and services and is applied at each stage of the supply chain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#Comparison_with_a_sales_tax
http://www.bls.gov/lau/
Seriously, did you just post the first thing that came into your head regarding US worker mobility or do you actually have a link that backs up your post?
Yes but Canada has an NHS like system and other welfare services but its sales tax is very low, and varies from from nothing to a maximum of around 13% depending on which province you are in.
:-) The more I learn about foreign places the more I'd like to visit, but also the more I'm thankful I'm from here.
Why would they move to North Dakota yuck!, the economy will rebound. Right now they can get I think it's almost 2 years of unemployment benefits, and the federal gov't just approved another 13 months of Unemployment Insurance benefits.
There is movement though most people are heading south and west, Texas is booming, Florida is growing quickly. Arizona is also growing.
You seem to be comparing only sales taxes. What's the overall amount of taxation like in each of the countries you're talking about?
There would be nothing to stop them - but there are unlikely to be many vacancies in ND. Unemployment is low as the population is low.
However, worker mobility is very easy in the US and very much part of the culture.
I think a bit of a myth has grown over here that Americans don't have any welfare systems in place. As well as unemployment benefits don't you have food stamps and such like too?
America has areas of deprivation where exactly that happens unfortunately. Anyway if that were the case, how does that explain US unemployment being 9.8% while the UK is 7.9%?
I am well aware how percentage works. I have certificates to prove it. My point is that in a large country/state with a low population density it is natural to expect that the unemployment rate is going to be lower. This is even more likely in a State such as North Dakota - you either have a job or you leave. That keeps unemployment low.
Myths are fine, it's when you get the occasional poster who swears they're right about something they've no idea of that it gets annoying as was displayed early in this thread. If i've got a bit of an idea on a subject but i'm not completely sure, i say what i think is the case and ask if that's correct as i think do most posters.
Yes there is a benefit system of sorts and there are food stamps available and various means to assist those out of work. They don't necessarily get money but may get other assistance to ensure they don't go cold or do without food or essentials.
It's not the same as the UK where you definitely get cash though.
Well, sales taxes go into the same treasury pots at both a federal and local level as all other taxes, so you can't just look at one tax in particular. Arguably, one should have a reasonable weighting towards a sales tax on luxury goods with exemptions on necessities, as this is more progressive and less regressive. What you need to look at is the overall tax burden (the total, average tax one pays) and then trade that off against private compulsory expenditure.
The remaining difference can be accounted for by the different levels of GDP/Capita and particular spending requirements for the region. Ontario, for example, seems like a particularly good bet because it has a lot of natural resources for the population that lives there, so they don't really need to tax as heavily. That said, ON is not without its expenses and problems (I know the province quite well).
Right....let's all move to the US for their sales taxes!
Canada's health system is nothing like the British NHS. It is more like the French system with private healthcare providers claiming against a provincial or federal insurance scheme.
Here's in interesting graph showing the cost-effectiveness of various country's schemes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Health_care_cost_rise.svg
It is swings and roundabouts though. Sales taxes may be lower depending on where you are. The cost of living may well be lower too. You may well earn more money.
On the other hand you get less paid vacation time, not as little as two weeks as someone suggested but still less. An example being that in the UK I got 25 days paid vacation plus 8 paid Bank Holidays. In the US doing the same job for the same company i get 15 days paid vacation plus 10 paid federal holidays, two of which i can take any time, plus one occasional day, plus two personal days.
You get to pay various taxes depending on your location and of course you get to pay for medical, dental, optical care plus pensions and the other usual stuff. Basically you probably get more deductions from your income than in the UK though it is likely to be higher and the cost of living is lower.
In the end i reckon you're possibly a little better off in the US than in the UK but the gap isn't really that big when you factor everything in.
Also, the fact that fuel taxes are so low in the USA simply means that there has never been any incentive to build more fuel-efficient cars. Until the last few years a 2.0 litre engine in a European car was the biggest you would expect in a family-size car. In America that would be considered a small runabout.
Gas is around $2.50-3 a gallon. The fuel economy standards definitely need to improve in this country. I see a lot of SUVs on the roads, but I drive a fairly fuel efficient vehicle (probably not by European standards.) The reality is that Americans will always drive more miles than Brits. Our public transportation systems are not as good as the public transportation systems in Europe & things are much more widely spread out here.
Yes, there are TOO MANY government programs in my opinion. Too many freeloaders are allowed to live off productive American tax payers. Welfare is supposed to be a temporary program (2 years), but I suspect lots of people have found ways around that limit. Not only is there welfare, but food stamps (50 million+ Americans are on food stamps), Medicaid (free health care for the poor), government-subsidized housing for the poor, government subsidized low energy rates for the poor, etc.
And due to us being in the EUSSR we can never lower our VAT to less then 15% even if we wanted to. Disgraceful.