on top of that as someone has said he word has a very tenuous relation with homosexuality itself. As kids we constantly said something was gay, we never meant it as a homophobic insult its just how the word have evolved.
Exactly. Language is a subtle and complex thing, and where "gay" is used to insult each other by schoolkids, it does not automatically follow that this is a homophobic insult or attitude. It's like that other thread about ignorance and the use of the word "p*ki". To many people, they will not be able to compute that in some parts, casual usage is rife, even amongst people who will happily work alongside, live next door to, and be friends with Pakistanis.
"What are your new neighbours like?"
"Oh, they're p*kis, but they're really nice"
There's often a subtle disassociation amongst words and their intent that people need to understand, instead of going at them in black and white / literal fashion.
It isn't about the word "gay", it's about the word gay being used in a negative context. If kids were allowed to use the word n*gger in a negative context in the playground, there would be daily riots. Because it's gay people, we're just a bunch of moaners. Pathetic.
Exactly. Language is a subtle and complex thing, and where "gay" is used to insult each other by schoolkids, it does not automatically follow that this is a homophobic insult or attitude. It's like that other thread about ignorance and the use of the word "p*ki". To many people, they will not be able to compute that in some parts, casual usage is rife, even amongst people who will happily work alongside, live next door to, and be friends with Pakistanis.
"What are your new neighbours like?"
"Oh, they're p*kis, but they're really nice"
There's often a subtle disassociation amongst words and their intent that people need to understand, instead of going at them in black and white / literal fashion.
Exactly. I am pretty sure there are many un pc words I use, its all about context.
Even if it was meant as a homophobic slur then I think a bottom up approach is much better the enforcement. If you tell a kid don't use that word, its really bad, will they understand why? If you educate a child about homosexual tolerance then they will chose not to use that word in such a way by themselves, teachers wont have to enforce it to begin with (hope that makes sense, its monday morning and the office coffee is weak
It isn't about the word "gay", it's about the word gay being used in a negative context. If kids were allowed to use the word n*gger in a negative context in the playground, there would be daily riots. Because it's gay people, we're just a bunch of moaners. Pathetic.
But the N word is a slur against black people, whereas the use of the word gay in a negative context isn't a slur against gay people. Surely you understand the distinction?
But the N word is a slur against black people, whereas the use of the word gay in a negative context isn't a slur against gay people. Surely you understand the distinction?
Of course it's a slur against gay people otherwise they wouldn't use the word gay in a negative context. It makes kids that are going through confusion about their sexuality afraid to speak up about it. It makes them feel inferior because the other kids are using the term "gay" in a negative context. How do people fail to see that as anything but discriminatory?
Does anyone over the age (or mental age) of 15 use the word Gay for this purpose anyway? Not only is the word imo detached from the sexuality meaning, it pretty much stops when the child reaches adulthood doesn't it! I have only ever heard it used once and that was by a 14 year old!
Of course it's a slur against gay people otherwise they wouldn't use the word gay in a negative context. It makes kids that are going through confusion about their sexuality afraid to speak up about it. It makes them feel inferior because the other kids are using the term "gay" in a negative context. How do people fail to see that as anything but discriminatory?
It isn't. It has evolved into something on its own, just as the word "gay" did in the first place from its original meaning of joyful and happy. That's what language does.
Of course it's a slur against gay people otherwise they wouldn't use the word gay in a negative context. It makes kids that are going through confusion about their sexuality afraid to speak up about it. It makes them feel inferior because the other kids are using the term "gay" in a negative context. How do people fail to see that as anything but discriminatory?
When a kid goes to school in a pair of Primark trainers and his mates laugh and say they're gay, do you think they're taking the piss out of his trainers or discriminating against gay people? They are able to distinguish between the use of the word in different contexts, if only others could do the same.
It isn't. It has evolved into something on its own, just as the word "gay" did in the first place from its original meaning of joyful and happy. That's what language does.
Does anyone over the age (or mental age) of 15 use the word Gay for this purpose anyway? Not only is the word imo detached from the sexuality meaning, it pretty much stops when the child reaches adulthood doesn't it! I have only ever heard it used once and that was by a 14 year old!
Didn't Chris Moyles say it on the radio not long back about something?
The usual suspects on here spouting their usual nonsense <coughRogerBaileycough>
All this talk of language 'evolving' is utter nonsense purely for the fact that gay still means homosexual. The fact that people think it's fine for that also to mean 'rubbish' are just being utterly bloody ignorant if they think the two aren't linked.
Will Young is in a position of power. All credit to him for using it. His last album got to Number 1 and went gold. I don't think anyone needs to concern themselves about his 'flagging career'.
Oh and yet again, Roger thinks we can't equate racism with homophobia and yet again, we all wait in anticipation for a reason why. Are we really going to have to have the 'you choose to be gay' debate, AGAIN??
Nah if you got called a Jew when I was a kid it was because you were being tight fisted with your money. Spaz was also a popular insult during my school years. It's out of fashion now as I'm sure gay will be soon enough when it's replaced by something else. Kids like to call each other names, horrible but there's no getting away from it.
I was at primary school when Joey Deacon was on tv. It was supposed to make us aware of handicapped people. Instead we all ran around calling people "Joey Deacons" as an insult, together with impressions of the poor bloke. Kids are bloody nasty.
It isn't. It has evolved into something on its own, just as the word "gay" did in the first place from its original meaning of joyful and happy. That's what language does.
Comments
Exactly. Language is a subtle and complex thing, and where "gay" is used to insult each other by schoolkids, it does not automatically follow that this is a homophobic insult or attitude. It's like that other thread about ignorance and the use of the word "p*ki". To many people, they will not be able to compute that in some parts, casual usage is rife, even amongst people who will happily work alongside, live next door to, and be friends with Pakistanis.
"What are your new neighbours like?"
"Oh, they're p*kis, but they're really nice"
There's often a subtle disassociation amongst words and their intent that people need to understand, instead of going at them in black and white / literal fashion.
that never worked for James Blunt.
It isn't about the word "gay", it's about the word gay being used in a negative context. If kids were allowed to use the word n*gger in a negative context in the playground, there would be daily riots. Because it's gay people, we're just a bunch of moaners. Pathetic.
Exactly. I am pretty sure there are many un pc words I use, its all about context.
Even if it was meant as a homophobic slur then I think a bottom up approach is much better the enforcement. If you tell a kid don't use that word, its really bad, will they understand why? If you educate a child about homosexual tolerance then they will chose not to use that word in such a way by themselves, teachers wont have to enforce it to begin with (hope that makes sense, its monday morning and the office coffee is weak
But the N word is a slur against black people, whereas the use of the word gay in a negative context isn't a slur against gay people. Surely you understand the distinction?
Indeed
We want all our schools to be havens of joy and gaiety
I certainly view homophobia as equal to racism, but the word gay has gone through a completely different evolution to the N word
Of course it's a slur against gay people otherwise they wouldn't use the word gay in a negative context. It makes kids that are going through confusion about their sexuality afraid to speak up about it. It makes them feel inferior because the other kids are using the term "gay" in a negative context. How do people fail to see that as anything but discriminatory?
It isn't. It has evolved into something on its own, just as the word "gay" did in the first place from its original meaning of joyful and happy. That's what language does.
Then theres Gay Byrne
Not if Will Young has his way!
When a kid goes to school in a pair of Primark trainers and his mates laugh and say they're gay, do you think they're taking the piss out of his trainers or discriminating against gay people? They are able to distinguish between the use of the word in different contexts, if only others could do the same.
It has been hijacked by the likes of Stonewall
I' m not gay about it personally
Didn't Chris Moyles say it on the radio not long back about something?
It's funny on The Inbetweeners too.
All this talk of language 'evolving' is utter nonsense purely for the fact that gay still means homosexual. The fact that people think it's fine for that also to mean 'rubbish' are just being utterly bloody ignorant if they think the two aren't linked.
Will Young is in a position of power. All credit to him for using it. His last album got to Number 1 and went gold. I don't think anyone needs to concern themselves about his 'flagging career'.
Oh and yet again, Roger thinks we can't equate racism with homophobia and yet again, we all wait in anticipation for a reason why. Are we really going to have to have the 'you choose to be gay' debate, AGAIN??
there was song called that as well if I recall correctly
I was at primary school when Joey Deacon was on tv. It was supposed to make us aware of handicapped people. Instead we all ran around calling people "Joey Deacons" as an insult, together with impressions of the poor bloke. Kids are bloody nasty.
Ah I see, so gay no longer means homosexual?
I rest my case!
I was gonna say, but...
Yeah, but it also means happy / joyful etc. Just because words take on new meaning and context doesn't mean their old meanings are defunct does it?