Paul,
Can confirm that the fix for retaining the name in the schedule list after padding the beginning time.
There is no change to th behaviour of the box with regards to taking the actual name of programme being recorded when recording starts for the subsiquent playlist entry.
I did about 4 tests last night and for example, I set a schedule from the EPG to record The Mighty Boosh. Then I edited the schedule for it to start recoding 5 minutes earlier. As proved, the name is not deleted in the schedule list after editing this. When recording started 5 minutes early it was still Newsnight and that is te entry in the playlist. I'll check with Humax to see if they have any plans to change this feature if you like.
If they don't fix this I will be really disappointed - it bugs me much more than not having auto padding.
I agree that padding at the end is more important than at the beginning but I do frequently record programmes that started early (e.g. Hotel Babylon, BBC1 9pm this evening started nearly a minute early) but I don't pad because it just gets so confusing having the wrong programme names.
What bugs me most of all is the fact that the 8000T doesn't have this problem. Why did they take something that worked fine on the 8000T and then break it for the 9200? Doesn't make sense to me.
I was always looking forward to be able to pass the 8000 on to another part of the family after getting the 9200T. However, I can't yet given the idiocyncracies of the 9200. The incorrect naming of programmes can easily lead one to delete them by mistake. Really great if it just happens to be part of a series you haven't watched yet. As has been said, it worked without issue on the 8000T so it was a very odd enhancement for the new machine. If it wasn't broken, why fix it?
Also there is the issue of the on screen messages during playback to say a recording is about to start. No No No!
Anything been done to prevent loss of the second recording where two consecutive recordings are scheduled on the same channel and padding causes them to overlap? It's an easy 'mistake' to make; so lets have it so it isn't a mistake any more please. One neat solution might be to offer to merge the two reservations into one and free up a timer slot automatically.
I still tend to use the 8000T mainly and just use the 9200T when something else I wish to record is on at the same time. I really didn't envisage that would be necessary after spending £230 on the new PVR.
All these problems with the 9200T seem to have halted updates for the 8000T which could urgently now do with the previous incarnation of its EPG being put back to prevent the loss of scheduled programme information. Is it not possible to do work for both devices concurrently?
I still tend to use the 8000T mainly and just use the 9200T when something else I wish to record is on at the same time. I really didn't envisage that would be necessary after spending £230 on the new PVR.
In a similar way I use my 9200T as backup to my 5 year old Tivo which by any technology metric ought to be obsolete by now. There's still no way I would even consider making the Humax my primary device, and from what I read here I'll be surprised if I ditch my Tivo before the end of this year.
I'm going to counter balance the tivo thing out here, but essentially Tdenson is kind of right really. Not that I or loads of us ever see any problems wit either of our PVRs.
Anyway...I thought I would say a TIVO is analogue. Its when PVRs use twin freeview tuners is where the challenge is, and so far I find no DTT PVR can match the aparant stability of an analogue DVD recorder or analogue PVR. The UK market is still waiting for a manufacturer that will make one of these without more than even 5 bugs that could affect its use. I think the general public have no idea in general how buggy freeview PVRs can get, when shopping for ones in Dixons and John Lewis for eg.
I can only guess that the ones that *do* know what they are purchasing, perhaps by freaquenting forums like this before deciding, find the pros of having one (and the fact that most people arnt plaggued by problems) outweight the potential risk of finding out they have a buggy machine that is affecting them. Otherwise they would buy an analogue one and connected it to an STB instead or their IDTV.
seeing as freeview PVR manufacturers cant acheive the reliability levels of an analogue PVR like a Tivo, they are going to have to spend loads of money on continued work fixing bugs until they learn how to manufacturer 99% bug free ones. the cost of supporting the development of a released product continually would alone be enough of an incentive. Thats probably why so few big name high street brands have not felt ready or willing to put a twin tuner DTT offering into this space quite yet.
Anyway, cant see any of that changing in the next 12 months so back on to fixing some bugs and getting some more cool features in...:)
The curious thing though is that a TIVO is actualy MORE technically complicated than a digital PVR (well definitely more than a single). It does everything a digital single PVR does but also has to configure and co-ordinate the MPEG *encoding* of the stream it is recording and then do everything else a digital PVR then does. It truly was a device WAY ahead of its time!
(just one thing though - did anyone own one in the first 12-18 months? Were there serious bugs that were ironed out during that time? Or did they really get it "just right" on day one?)
There is no change to th behaviour of the box with regards to taking the actual name of programme being recorded when recording starts for the subsiquent playlist entry.
I would have thought that there should be an easy fix for this. At present if you set a programme to record from the EPG without altering the start time the correct programme name appears on the list of recordings even if the previous programme has overrun and presumably was transmitting its details for the first n minutes of recording so the recording algorithm must be set up to ignore that data. I suggest that when we get autopad any autopadded start time is handled in exactly the same way whereas if the start time is manually altered (using the present edit process) the system should pick up the name of whatever is being transmitted when recording starts.
... if the start time is manually altered (using the present edit process) the system should pick up the name of whatever is being transmitted when recording starts.
Or am I missing something
But, if you pad the start of the recording, then the programme being transmitted when the recording starts will most likely be the one before the one you want to record.
But, if you pad the start of the recording, then the programme being transmitted when the recording starts will most likely be the one before the one you want to record.
But the name allocated to the recording schedule entry (and hence the eventual name in the recorded programmes list) can surely just take the name of the entry in the EPG Guide you originally selected, irrespective of whatever start and end times you may subsequently set the recording schedule entry to using the edit function.
It should take that original EPG name and keep it fixed unless the user manually chooses to re-name it using Edit.
If I wanted the name of the preceding or following programmes then I would have selected them from the EPG Guide in the first place. I can't believe that Humax have cocked this up with the 9200T when it works on the 8000T.
I would have thought that there should be an easy fix for this. At present if you set a programme to record from the EPG without altering the start time the correct programme name appears on the list of recordings even if the previous programme has overrun and presumably was transmitting its details for the first n minutes of recording so the recording algorithm must be set up to ignore that data. I suggest that when we get autopad any autopadded start time is handled in exactly the same way whereas if the start time is manually altered (using the present edit process) the system should pick up the name of whatever is being transmitted when recording starts.
Or am I missing something
It is a bit confusing, but I think where this discussion was going was a suggested change to the current behaviour so; if you pad the start time of a recording you selected off the EPG, the resultant name of the finished recording in the playlist needs to retain the original name of the programme selected off the EPG, and *not* the name of the actual programme being recorded when it starts. My wording of this could probably be better!
Behaviour 1 when doing an 'automatic' timer:
It seems as though, if you select anything to record off the EPG, the name of the recording that subsiquently gets listed in the playlist is always the same as the one you originally selected in the EPG. An 'automatic' timer if you will. Even if your intended programme is late and the beginning of the recording captures the last 5 minutes of the previous prgramme your intended programme name is used. I will need to double check this though.
Behaviour 2 when setting up a manual timer - a la VCR:
But if you set up a scheduled timer for a recording manually (not through the EPG) then the name of the recording in the playlist will be whatever the actual programme is when the recording starts. Again I will need to double check that.
Therefore, it seems to me, that when you select a scheduled recording from the EPG, but then edit anything in the schedule afterwards, the box reverts to behaviour 2 (i.e. as though its a 'manual' timer, due to the manual intervention).
This would explain why editing a scheduled timer for something that was selected from the EPG, like padding the end time, would result in the 'name' field going blank. As it will then stick the appropriate name when it starts its recording.
What was partially fixed in the last software update was the name not being blanked out in the scheduled timer listings when you pad the end time. The last beta software also corrects this behaviour when you edit the start time.
What was being requested earlier was whatever editing you do in the scheduled timer selected from the EPG, it will always keep the originally selected programme name selected, and always apply that same name to the resultant playlist entry - and not what was 'actually' being recorded when the recording started.
Anyway...I thought I would say a TIVO is analogue.
Let's not forget that unlike digital PVR's Tivo can take Scart input, which means that it can be fed from a digital STB - which indeed is exactly what I do (from a Sagem). As for digital quality, well subjectively my Tivo PQ is better than that from my 9200T. I can't explain that technically but it certainly appears that way subjectively.
As a result, I have the perfect combination. All the Humax does is sort out schedule clashes and because I only use it on one channel, and also can choose not to tune it to ITV, I don't have reliability problems (although I can guarantee to crash it by leaving it on ITV).
Let's not forget that unlike digital PVR's Tivo can take Scart input, which means that it can be fed from a digital STB - which indeed is exactly what I do (from a Sagem).
Ah your right. Now that would be nice to see in freeview PVRs. It seems you cant have everything in one basket. Sony Freeview harddisk DVD recorder which takes scart input for recording. One tuner though not twin. They'll get there one day!
What was being requested earlier was whatever editing you do in the scheduled timer selected from the EPG, it will always keep the originally selected programme name selected, and always apply that same name to the resultant playlist entry - and not what was 'actually' being recorded when the recording started.
I was going a little bit further to suggest that when we get autopad it should be automatic (set up in preferences presumably) to always add a number of minutes before and/or after the EPG time for each recording and if this option has been enabled the system should work as it seems to now by ignoring any program name data until the program name in the EPG is transmitted. If complete flexibilty is wanted so that padding only occurs on some programmes (to avoid overlaps with other recordings perhaps) there could be a dialogue at the time the EPG entry is selected to allow for override of standard padding defaults.
If, on the other hand the schedule entry for start time is manually altered using the edit facility the assumption should be that the user is interested in the content of the preceding programme and the title of that programme is the one that will be listed.
I hesitate to enter this debate with my limited knowledge of broadcasting and PVR's, but is it not the case that some of the problems with devices like the Humax are less to do with the box itself and more to do with a very unstandardised transmission standard for digital tv.
tdenson and Cliff both sing the praises of TIVO, which genuinely seems to have been a brilliantly designed piece of kit, but it did have one advantage. The analogue transmission standard was set in stone and had been for a number of years. Innovations such as NICAM, PDC and even COLOUR back in the late 60's were specifically designed not to upset the analogue signal and as a consequence, would not upset older kit that had been manufactured before these things came along.
Digital Terrestrial by contrast, seems to be a poorly thought out system, where broadcasters appear to have some degree of freedom about how many channels they are allowed to squeeze down a single multiplex, and the introduction of text and interactive services is carried out with a cavalier attitude that seems to upset a large number of STBs.
Clearly the timer / padding / EPG issues are Humax's problem and should be resolved quickly, but most of the lock-ups and failed recordings seem to be occurring on ITV and CH4, so the DTG or freeview consortium should come down hard on those broadcasters who are causing these sort of disruptions to domestic recording / receiving equipment.
From my reading of various posts on different forums many of these "signal-related" problems seem to affect many different makes of boxes, so I think it is not surprising that many of the larger manufacturers are keeping out of this market until the DTT signal is robust and follows rigid specifications, so the bad publicity associated with a buggy box does not reflect on their long established good names.
I may be wrong on all this but I'm sure Cliff or others will put me right!
Those with old, ex On Digital boxes are advised to get a new one as it will be more robust; yet the newest boxes fall over just the same.
But the EPG programme naming issue with the 9200T is purely of Humax's making. That all worked flawlessly on their 8000T.
The 8000T box doesn't suffer the random lockups either (at least since whatever was done to fix things after the October EPG changes) so why does the 9200T.
These should have been fixed within a month of the issue of the new box and by now some of the enhancements should be starting to appear. Each week I look at the DTG site for the name Humax, and each week it's in vain. At least the 9200T isn't as poorly as the Aldi Technosonic PVR appears to have been, but the Humax could do with a good tonic now!
I agree there needs to be some sort of indication in the EPG. I think in the meantime, I might try an alternative padding method: reserving the programme after as well as the one I want. This is quicker than editing the scheduled times anyway!
If we have "Auto padding" won't the box end up like a segem???
If we have "Auto padding" won't the box end up like a segem???
I guess using it would optional. If the Humax started recording on schedule rather than 15 seconds late (the time it takes to boot up from standby) it would help. My Pioneer DVD recorder will ready itself a couple of minutes early out of standby so that it doesn't start recording late.
I'm sure it could be made to start on time but padding (auto or otherwise) does ensure that mostly the beginning and end of programmes aren't lost. At times the broadcsters' schedules do not seem to be an exact science; they'll try and squeeze a couple of 22 minute programmes into 45 minute slot, yet round the starttimes to the nearest five minutes. The result is the second programme starts a couple of minutes early.
I'm not sure which channel the Humax uses to set the time clock; howver not all channels have their clocks synchronised so on some days I've noted, particularly with Channel 5, all the progrmmes can start 30 seconds early.
Padding or no padding, I'd like the whole progrmme to be recorded, intact! And could we have padded it one minute too early or one minute too late? Without padding I find that nearly all programmes have their ends chopped off (ouch) and from a standby start, miss the openings too. I actually like to see the man with his gong or the searchlights in the sky even if Mr Humax doesn't think I do. Without padding, he regularly fails to record them for me!
like jak99, there are things broadcasters can do to mess up PVRs (see the ITV mux2 lockups issues that started on the 9th jan). But then again, these PVRs get released with a list of bugs themselves too. Humax have been getting on with the work involved in fixing bugs for a while now and they will probably have to continue until the ones that have to be fixed are all done. There is work going on with the MHEG engine, which suggests that there are things that need to be done their end on the box to prevent it from locking up as well.
I know that it's more important to fix lockups and actually record the right programmes but have Humax indicated that they are going to give the Duovision true chase play in any of the anticipated updates? These shouldn't need any special programming for MHEG etc and I think are the number one wish(?).
Matt
At least the 9200T isn't as poorly as the Aldi Technosonic PVR appears to have been, but the Humax could do with a good tonic now!
Apart from the "No signal" issue the Aldi Technosonic does not have any serious bugs IMO. Certainly none of the magnitude of losing all recordings or lock-ups preventing sheduled recordings being successful. It has features which are important to me which are implemented better than any other PVR.
The only one that i can really say has worked for me is the problem with the optical out and playing mp3's now works, It never locked up on the radio before on the old software and now when the thing locks up i have to unplug it for at least 10mins or so (never had to wait this long before)before the thing will boot back into life again apart from that Everything else seem to be the same.
Im really thinking of just giving up on it and taking the thing back because i just cannot do with the hassle of all these bugs ect....
like jak99, there are things broadcasters can do to mess up PVRs (see the ITV mux2 lockups issues that started on the 9th jan). But then again, these PVRs get released with a list of bugs themselves too. Humax have been getting on with the work involved in fixing bugs for a while now and they will probably have to continue until the ones that have to be fixed are all done. There is work going on with the MHEG engine, which suggests that there are things that need to be done their end on the box to prevent it from locking up as well.
You mention above "that there are things that need to be done their end on the box"-what do you mean by that statement?Does it mean future boxes will be different to the one I spent £229:99 on?It is a good PVR,but the frequent lockups are becoming annoying!How much longer do we have to wait until the bugs are sorted. :mad:
Comments
If they don't fix this I will be really disappointed - it bugs me much more than not having auto padding.
I agree that padding at the end is more important than at the beginning but I do frequently record programmes that started early (e.g. Hotel Babylon, BBC1 9pm this evening started nearly a minute early) but I don't pad because it just gets so confusing having the wrong programme names.
What bugs me most of all is the fact that the 8000T doesn't have this problem. Why did they take something that worked fine on the 8000T and then break it for the 9200? Doesn't make sense to me.
Also there is the issue of the on screen messages during playback to say a recording is about to start. No No No!
Anything been done to prevent loss of the second recording where two consecutive recordings are scheduled on the same channel and padding causes them to overlap? It's an easy 'mistake' to make; so lets have it so it isn't a mistake any more please. One neat solution might be to offer to merge the two reservations into one and free up a timer slot automatically.
I still tend to use the 8000T mainly and just use the 9200T when something else I wish to record is on at the same time. I really didn't envisage that would be necessary after spending £230 on the new PVR.
All these problems with the 9200T seem to have halted updates for the 8000T which could urgently now do with the previous incarnation of its EPG being put back to prevent the loss of scheduled programme information. Is it not possible to do work for both devices concurrently?
In a similar way I use my 9200T as backup to my 5 year old Tivo which by any technology metric ought to be obsolete by now. There's still no way I would even consider making the Humax my primary device, and from what I read here I'll be surprised if I ditch my Tivo before the end of this year.
Anyway...I thought I would say a TIVO is analogue. Its when PVRs use twin freeview tuners is where the challenge is, and so far I find no DTT PVR can match the aparant stability of an analogue DVD recorder or analogue PVR. The UK market is still waiting for a manufacturer that will make one of these without more than even 5 bugs that could affect its use. I think the general public have no idea in general how buggy freeview PVRs can get, when shopping for ones in Dixons and John Lewis for eg.
I can only guess that the ones that *do* know what they are purchasing, perhaps by freaquenting forums like this before deciding, find the pros of having one (and the fact that most people arnt plaggued by problems) outweight the potential risk of finding out they have a buggy machine that is affecting them. Otherwise they would buy an analogue one and connected it to an STB instead or their IDTV.
seeing as freeview PVR manufacturers cant acheive the reliability levels of an analogue PVR like a Tivo, they are going to have to spend loads of money on continued work fixing bugs until they learn how to manufacturer 99% bug free ones. the cost of supporting the development of a released product continually would alone be enough of an incentive. Thats probably why so few big name high street brands have not felt ready or willing to put a twin tuner DTT offering into this space quite yet.
Anyway, cant see any of that changing in the next 12 months so back on to fixing some bugs and getting some more cool features in...:)
(just one thing though - did anyone own one in the first 12-18 months? Were there serious bugs that were ironed out during that time? Or did they really get it "just right" on day one?)
Cliff
I would have thought that there should be an easy fix for this. At present if you set a programme to record from the EPG without altering the start time the correct programme name appears on the list of recordings even if the previous programme has overrun and presumably was transmitting its details for the first n minutes of recording so the recording algorithm must be set up to ignore that data. I suggest that when we get autopad any autopadded start time is handled in exactly the same way whereas if the start time is manually altered (using the present edit process) the system should pick up the name of whatever is being transmitted when recording starts.
Or am I missing something
But, if you pad the start of the recording, then the programme being transmitted when the recording starts will most likely be the one before the one you want to record.
But the name allocated to the recording schedule entry (and hence the eventual name in the recorded programmes list) can surely just take the name of the entry in the EPG Guide you originally selected, irrespective of whatever start and end times you may subsequently set the recording schedule entry to using the edit function.
It should take that original EPG name and keep it fixed unless the user manually chooses to re-name it using Edit.
If I wanted the name of the preceding or following programmes then I would have selected them from the EPG Guide in the first place. I can't believe that Humax have cocked this up with the 9200T when it works on the 8000T.
AJP
It is a bit confusing, but I think where this discussion was going was a suggested change to the current behaviour so; if you pad the start time of a recording you selected off the EPG, the resultant name of the finished recording in the playlist needs to retain the original name of the programme selected off the EPG, and *not* the name of the actual programme being recorded when it starts. My wording of this could probably be better!
Behaviour 1 when doing an 'automatic' timer:
It seems as though, if you select anything to record off the EPG, the name of the recording that subsiquently gets listed in the playlist is always the same as the one you originally selected in the EPG. An 'automatic' timer if you will. Even if your intended programme is late and the beginning of the recording captures the last 5 minutes of the previous prgramme your intended programme name is used. I will need to double check this though.
Behaviour 2 when setting up a manual timer - a la VCR:
But if you set up a scheduled timer for a recording manually (not through the EPG) then the name of the recording in the playlist will be whatever the actual programme is when the recording starts. Again I will need to double check that.
Therefore, it seems to me, that when you select a scheduled recording from the EPG, but then edit anything in the schedule afterwards, the box reverts to behaviour 2 (i.e. as though its a 'manual' timer, due to the manual intervention).
This would explain why editing a scheduled timer for something that was selected from the EPG, like padding the end time, would result in the 'name' field going blank. As it will then stick the appropriate name when it starts its recording.
What was partially fixed in the last software update was the name not being blanked out in the scheduled timer listings when you pad the end time. The last beta software also corrects this behaviour when you edit the start time.
What was being requested earlier was whatever editing you do in the scheduled timer selected from the EPG, it will always keep the originally selected programme name selected, and always apply that same name to the resultant playlist entry - and not what was 'actually' being recorded when the recording started.
Let's not forget that unlike digital PVR's Tivo can take Scart input, which means that it can be fed from a digital STB - which indeed is exactly what I do (from a Sagem). As for digital quality, well subjectively my Tivo PQ is better than that from my 9200T. I can't explain that technically but it certainly appears that way subjectively.
As a result, I have the perfect combination. All the Humax does is sort out schedule clashes and because I only use it on one channel, and also can choose not to tune it to ITV, I don't have reliability problems (although I can guarantee to crash it by leaving it on ITV).
Ah your right. Now that would be nice to see in freeview PVRs. It seems you cant have everything in one basket. Sony Freeview harddisk DVD recorder which takes scart input for recording. One tuner though not twin. They'll get there one day!
I was going a little bit further to suggest that when we get autopad it should be automatic (set up in preferences presumably) to always add a number of minutes before and/or after the EPG time for each recording and if this option has been enabled the system should work as it seems to now by ignoring any program name data until the program name in the EPG is transmitted. If complete flexibilty is wanted so that padding only occurs on some programmes (to avoid overlaps with other recordings perhaps) there could be a dialogue at the time the EPG entry is selected to allow for override of standard padding defaults.
If, on the other hand the schedule entry for start time is manually altered using the edit facility the assumption should be that the user is interested in the content of the preceding programme and the title of that programme is the one that will be listed.
tdenson and Cliff both sing the praises of TIVO, which genuinely seems to have been a brilliantly designed piece of kit, but it did have one advantage. The analogue transmission standard was set in stone and had been for a number of years. Innovations such as NICAM, PDC and even COLOUR back in the late 60's were specifically designed not to upset the analogue signal and as a consequence, would not upset older kit that had been manufactured before these things came along.
Digital Terrestrial by contrast, seems to be a poorly thought out system, where broadcasters appear to have some degree of freedom about how many channels they are allowed to squeeze down a single multiplex, and the introduction of text and interactive services is carried out with a cavalier attitude that seems to upset a large number of STBs.
Clearly the timer / padding / EPG issues are Humax's problem and should be resolved quickly, but most of the lock-ups and failed recordings seem to be occurring on ITV and CH4, so the DTG or freeview consortium should come down hard on those broadcasters who are causing these sort of disruptions to domestic recording / receiving equipment.
From my reading of various posts on different forums many of these "signal-related" problems seem to affect many different makes of boxes, so I think it is not surprising that many of the larger manufacturers are keeping out of this market until the DTT signal is robust and follows rigid specifications, so the bad publicity associated with a buggy box does not reflect on their long established good names.
I may be wrong on all this but I'm sure Cliff or others will put me right!
tallboy
Those with old, ex On Digital boxes are advised to get a new one as it will be more robust; yet the newest boxes fall over just the same.
But the EPG programme naming issue with the 9200T is purely of Humax's making. That all worked flawlessly on their 8000T.
The 8000T box doesn't suffer the random lockups either (at least since whatever was done to fix things after the October EPG changes) so why does the 9200T.
These should have been fixed within a month of the issue of the new box and by now some of the enhancements should be starting to appear. Each week I look at the DTG site for the name Humax, and each week it's in vain. At least the 9200T isn't as poorly as the Aldi Technosonic PVR appears to have been, but the Humax could do with a good tonic now!
If we have "Auto padding" won't the box end up like a segem???
I guess using it would optional. If the Humax started recording on schedule rather than 15 seconds late (the time it takes to boot up from standby) it would help. My Pioneer DVD recorder will ready itself a couple of minutes early out of standby so that it doesn't start recording late.
I'm sure it could be made to start on time but padding (auto or otherwise) does ensure that mostly the beginning and end of programmes aren't lost. At times the broadcsters' schedules do not seem to be an exact science; they'll try and squeeze a couple of 22 minute programmes into 45 minute slot, yet round the starttimes to the nearest five minutes. The result is the second programme starts a couple of minutes early.
I'm not sure which channel the Humax uses to set the time clock; howver not all channels have their clocks synchronised so on some days I've noted, particularly with Channel 5, all the progrmmes can start 30 seconds early.
Padding or no padding, I'd like the whole progrmme to be recorded, intact! And could we have padded it one minute too early or one minute too late? Without padding I find that nearly all programmes have their ends chopped off (ouch) and from a standby start, miss the openings too. I actually like to see the man with his gong or the searchlights in the sky even if Mr Humax doesn't think I do. Without padding, he regularly fails to record them for me!
nah. Thats just a sagem thing that needs sagem to sort out. The way the 4tv box does it would be one good way to follow.
Matt
Apart from the "No signal" issue the Aldi Technosonic does not have any serious bugs IMO. Certainly none of the magnitude of losing all recordings or lock-ups preventing sheduled recordings being successful. It has features which are important to me which are implemented better than any other PVR.
Colin
Im really thinking of just giving up on it and taking the thing back because i just cannot do with the hassle of all these bugs ect....