The Blacklist season 1 (US pace)

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  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Just because it's predictable to the viewer doesn't mean it's predictable to the characters on the show. You expect them to have that foresight because it's happened on other shows? Cause "the old road block trick" sure as hell doesn't happen in "real life."

    How can they fall for it again when it's never happened before? They only exist in their universe. Plausibility =/= originality. Two different things.

    Moreover as I've already said the FBI had little reason to expect such a coordinated assault with that sort of manpower.

    It does happen in real life. Fake road blocks are always being used in Iraq.

    It was lazy writing, nothing to do with the motives of the characters.
  • Paradise_LostParadise_Lost Posts: 6,454
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    It does happen in real life. Fake road blocks are always being used in Iraq.

    It was lazy writing, nothing to do with the motives of the characters.

    That analogy is a bit silly. We're talking about kidnapping a little girl in DC not an insurgent ambush in war torn Iraq. Yes it may have been lazy writing. They could have done something different to make it more original. But this is absolutely nothing to do with plausibility.

    And since we're critiquing law enforcement protocol with our impressive in depth experience and training from television shows ...

    In the context of the story it was very plausible that the FBI would not be prepared. Here's why: Red informs him that he smuggled the Serbian criminal into the country where intends to kidnap a general's daughter. They don't know that said criminal would be in communication with or have knowledge of Red's plan to inform the FBI. Otherwise it logically follows that the kidnapping of the girl would be a rather simple affair from Ranko's POV. Because unless the authorities have knowledge of the plan then she's defenceless. He could simply snatch her on her way to or from ballet class with little resistance. Even if he later found out that she had a robust security detail when doing reconnaissance how could he possibly organise such a coordinated attack with that sort of manpower on short notice in a foreign country? The only way was to know that she would be protected in such away from the beginning. But the FBI never knew that. They probably thought Ranko would do it himself, hire a heavy, or get an assassin to take out anyone accompanying her before snatching her. Why would the FBI expect him to launch something so extravagant to simply kidnap a girl?
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    That analogy is a bit silly. We're talking about kidnapping a little girl in DC not an insurgent ambush in war torn Iraq. Yes it may have been lazy writing. They could have done something different to make it more original. But this is absolutely nothing to do with plausibility.

    And since we're critiquing law enforcement protocol with our impressive in depth experience and training from television shows ...

    In the context of the story it was very plausible that the FBI would not be prepared. Here's why: Red informs him that he smuggled the Serbian criminal into the country where intends to kidnap a general's daughter. They don't know that said criminal would be in communication with or have knowledge of Red's plan to inform the FBI. Otherwise it logically follows that the kidnapping of the girl would be a rather simple affair from Ranko's POV. Because unless the authorities have knowledge of the plan then she's defenceless. He could simply snatch her on her way to or from ballet class with little resistance. Even if he later found out that she had a robust security detail when doing reconnaissance how could he possibly organise such a coordinated attack with that sort of manpower on short notice in a foreign country? The only way was to know that she would be protected in such away from the beginning. But the FBI never knew that.

    It was not plausible that the FBI would fall for the old 'road block' trick, especially on a bridge.

    They didn't even have bullet proof cars.

    Just look at all the security they had for Red in the Post Office, are they honestly going to have less security for their own convoy?
  • Paradise_LostParadise_Lost Posts: 6,454
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    It was not plausible that the FBI would fall for the old 'road block' trick, especially on a bridge.

    Koantemplation, it's only an old trick in the movies and on TV. They're not expecting a well coordinated attack on that scale to take the girl. How could Zamani have possibly known or organised something like that on short notice? He couldn't. Unless he knew well in advance that Red would grass on him. But the FBI doesn't know that.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Koantemplation, it's only an old trick in the movies and on TV. They're not expecting a well coordinated attack on that scale to take the girl. How could Zamani have possibly known or organised something like that on short notice? He couldn't. Unless he knew well in advance that Red would grass on him. But the FBI doesn't know that.

    That's the thing. They don't know.
    So they take precautions. And one of the simplest precautions is, don't stop for road blocks, incase they are traps.
  • Paradise_LostParadise_Lost Posts: 6,454
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    That's the thing. They don't know.
    I don't like paraphrasing that twit Rumsfeld but they don't know that they don't know. They think that they do know. So they believe that their security is adequate for what they perceive is the level of the threat ... which certainly isn't a full paramilitary assault with road blocks. It's a civilian security detail not a presidential motorcade. If Ranko didn't know the FBI would be tipped off well in advance it never would have amounted to that.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    I don't like paraphrasing that twit Rumsfeld but they don't know that they don't know. They think they do know and they believe that their security is adequate for what they perceive is the level of the threat ... which certainly isn't a full paramilitary assault with road blocks. It's a civilian security detail not a presidential motorcade. If Ranko didn't know the FBI would be tipped off well in advance it never would have amounted to that.

    It doesn't matter that they don't know they know.

    The thing is they should have acted as though the risk of the convoy being hijacks was there.

    When they saw the road block on the bridge, they should have been prepared for any eventuality.

    Having all 3 cars go on the bridge was mistake number one.
    It meant no room for the middle car to move out of the way.

    They should have tested the road block with the first car or even go another route.

    Watching out for the 'diversion' trick at the same time.
  • Paradise_LostParadise_Lost Posts: 6,454
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    It doesn't matter that they don't know they know.

    The thing is they should have acted as though the risk of the convoy being hijacks was there.

    When they saw the road block on the bridge, they should have been prepared for any eventuality.


    They should have prepared for any eventuality? OK, well they shouldn't have been driving in cars at all. Because a lorry could just pull in front of them and trap them. They shouldn't go by air either as inevitably a turncoat law men will hijack the plane (seen this in films before!), In fact they should not go outside ever because they'll be sniped and the girl whisked away in a helicopter... got to take all the precautions! Although a safehouse isn't great either because even if they clear it for explosives those are death traps and they've got the underground tunnels set to collapse ... yep seen it before.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    They should have prepared for any eventuality? OK, well they shouldn't have been driving in cars at all. Because a lorry could just pull in front of them and trap them. They shouldn't go by air either as inevitably a turncoat law men will hijack the plane (seen this in films before!), In fact they should not go outside ever because they'll be sniped and the girl whisked away in a helicopter... got to take all the precautions! Although a safehouse isn't great either because even if they clear it for explosives those are death traps and they've got the underground tunnels set to collapse ... yep seen it before.
    Well they shouldn't drive onto a bridge, with cars that are not bullet proof. and stop for a stop sign, with the middle car trapped by the cars on either end of the convoy, that's for sure.
  • PaleHorsePaleHorse Posts: 5,681
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    I quite enjoyed it. Spader, as usual, was brilliant. Diego and Boone were just the slightest bit shaky in their acting, but I think they'll quickly grow into their roles.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    Just because the main plot isn't very plausible, doesn't mean we have to put up with scenes that are lazy and ill thought out.

    The 'road block' kidnapping is a cliche. I don't expect originality, but at least provide some sense of credibility for what is happening.

    it was a step too far.

    everyone, literally everyone watching must have known when they saw the road block what was happening.

    and in your pilot you don't want that to happen. i was shacking my head.

    the thought at the time occurred to me that it wouldn't have worked had the FBI not gone to fetch the girl. so i'm sat there thinking how predictable it was that Spader had set it up. but it appears the plot was not that smart.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    beckii330 wrote: »
    I agree, it was also very predictable. But it's one of those easy watch programmes that I'll keep watching, much like the one with Kevin Bacon, so bad I've forgotten the name of it! Fills an hour anyway.

    it was called 'the following'.

    also ridiculous.

    it was also one of a few programs that uses a plot device to set the series up and then abandons it. it was potentially clever that he was in prison and had set up all these things that were unfolding. but then when he got out it just became a regular FBI series.

    Suits (which i like,) did the same thing with regard to him having a fake law degree. it was the premise for the series but now it does not feature and it is just a legal drama. albeit quite a good one.
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    flagpole wrote: »
    i
    Suits (which i like,) did the same thing with regard to him having a fake law degree. it was the premise for the series but now it does not feature and it is just a legal drama. albeit quite a good one.

    I'm not sure what season you are up with, on Suits,
    but Mike's lack of a law degree does feature in the latest episodes.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    I'm not sure what season you are up with, on Suits,
    but Mike's lack of a law degree does feature in the latest episodes.

    yeah i saw. i rather get the impression that they try and mention it as often as they can.

    this is the first plot critical reference in a long while. and it will obviously not be that critical.
  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,201
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    As soon as i saw Isabella Rossellini i remembered who she played on Alias and actually guessed the twist to the episode right away.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,624
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    Not so keen on this week. More of a Villain of the Week episode with not so much ongoing plot development.

    Good to see Parminder Nagra though.
  • darnelledarnelle Posts: 9,116
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    quite enjoyable- but the girl's wigs are v distracting and the "twists" can be seen coming a mile off
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    LostFool wrote: »
    Not so keen on this week. More of a Villain of the Week episode with not so much ongoing plot development.

    Good to see Parminder Nagra though.

    Yes, the series is better than 'The Following' but I'm not sure where it is going or what it is trying to do. Still not keen on the female lead. I wish she'd stop trying to look pensive all the time.

    I also hope Spader isn't her father. Such a cliche.

    Anyone else find it funny (unintentionally) when the spies were planting stuff in her apartment and her friend came back?
  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,201
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    So who was the girl in the photo? The obvious answer is his daughter but is it that simple?
  • koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    I'm only watching this show for Spader's character. Can't stand the female lead, and the story isn't really that interesting.
  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,201
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    Holy crap! He killed her dad! Well, the man who adopted her. I'm guessing the girl he's looking for is his daughter? This show keeps getting better!
  • Yo Omars CominYo Omars Comin Posts: 1,559
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    You make it sound like Red killed Liz's father out of hate. It was a mercy killing. He didn't want to be in bed for 6 weeks slowly deteriorating in front of his families eyes. Red put him out of his misery.

    Red on the swing was hilarious. :D
  • SchmiznurfSchmiznurf Posts: 4,434
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    You make it sound like Red killed Liz's father out of hate. It was a mercy killing. He didn't want to be in bed for 6 weeks slowly deteriorating in front of his families eyes. Red put him out of his misery.

    Red on the swing was hilarious. :D

    That's how I see it too, they were clearly good friends and he didn't want him suffering.
  • zwixxxzwixxx Posts: 10,295
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    Mercy Killing ?! - phooey to that. If that was the case then why not give her time to pop round for a proper goodbye then mercy-kill his ass afterwards. Red did it to protect himself and whatever he's trying to protect. I just don't care about him anymore and am done.
  • jette52jette52 Posts: 256
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    zwixxx wrote: »
    Mercy Killing ?! - phooey to that. If that was the case then why not give her time to pop round for a proper goodbye then mercy-kill his ass afterwards. Red did it to protect himself and whatever he's trying to protect. I just don't care about him anymore and am done.

    i have to agree on that point.he killed him because he was about to reveal his secret.
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