Opinions on 'The Waters of Mars' episode

[Deleted User] · 01/12/13 - 01:22

Series 4 episode 17.

I just gave all of series 4 a re-watch and I've got to say this was by far my favourite episode; most standalone episodes aren't always as great as the two parters and some of them feel rushed at times, but in my opinion this episode was so brilliant and I would rank it as the best standalone episode (given that I haven't watched the doctors prior to Paul McGann).

Great monsters, great concept, great music, great storyline and a fairly moving ending. It made me realise how much I miss Tennant as the Doctor but Matt Smith is still great.

Also what series would you recommend giving a re-watch now? I've got series 2 (10th and Rose) and series 3 (10th and Martha) left to watch again. Then after that I'll move onto classic who.

saladfingers81 · 01/12/13 - 01:24

Fantastic. 9/10. One of RTDs best, easily the finest of the specials. This and Midnight and The Sound of Drums show RTD was actually at the peak of his powers when he went darker.

garbage456 · 01/12/13 - 01:26

A great epiaode very scary too. I even loved the robot. What did he say was it Roger Roger?

[Deleted User] · 01/12/13 - 01:28

garbage456 wrote: »

A great epiaode very scary too. I even loved the robot. What did he say was it Roger Roger?

Yeah it was quite scary compared to the generic Dalek episodes for example. The robot was funny ahah, he said 'Gadget Gadget'

garbage456 · 01/12/13 - 01:29

AmeliaPond wrote: »

Series 4 episode 17.

I just gave all of series 4 a re-watch and I've got to say this was by far my favourite episode; most standalone episodes aren't always as great as the two parters and some of them feel rushed at times, but in my opinion this episode was so brilliant and I would rank it as the best standalone episode (given that I haven't watched the doctors prior to Paul McGann).

Great monsters, great concept, great music, great storyline and a fairly moving ending. It made me realise how much I miss Tennant as the Doctor but Matt Smith is still great.

Also what series would you recommend giving a re-watch now? I've got series 2 (10th and Rose) and series 3 (10th and Martha) left to watch again. Then after that I'll move onto classic who.

Series 2

gboy · 01/12/13 - 01:32

I liked it. Who can't really go wrong with a base-under-siege story, and this is the ultimate base-under-siege story.

Convincing monsters (one of them turns up in Emmerdale next week), and a good, strong story - not trying to be too clever.

Tennant is also very good in this one.

garbage456 · 01/12/13 - 01:32

AmeliaPond wrote: »

Series 4 episode 17.

I just gave all of series 4 a re-watch and I've got to say this was by far my favourite episode; most standalone episodes aren't always as great as the two parters and some of them feel rushed at times, but in my opinion this episode was so brilliant and I would rank it as the best standalone episode (given that I haven't watched the doctors prior to Paul McGann).

Great monsters, great concept, great music, great storyline and a fairly moving ending. It made me realise how much I miss Tennant as the Doctor but Matt Smith is still great.

Also what series would you recommend giving a re-watch now? I've got series 2 (10th and Rose) and series 3 (10th and Martha) left to watch again. Then after that I'll move onto classic who.

episodes 1 2 3 4 12 13

sskip the rest

[Deleted User] · 01/12/13 - 01:39

I enjoyed the episode a lot at the time and it is technically the best of the specials.
However I have always enjoyed The End of Time despite it being massively undercooked and confused.
Waters is Doctor Who at its most traditional and reliable but the re watch value isn't great. Maybe if the Time Lord victorious thread was given more time and had an effect in more episodes I would care more. The cafe scene with Wilf in the very next episode is not quite enough for me in this sense.

daveyboy7472 · 01/12/13 - 01:43

I thought this was the worst of the 2009 Specials. After Planet Of The Dead and the trailer for this it looked like a decent episode and I was quite looking forward to it.

However, as seems to have been the case recently, the hype didn't match the quality of the episode. I thought it dragged a bit at times and I definitely didn't like the Darker side of the Tenth Doctor. The whole Time Lord Victorious thing sucked big time.

On a lighter note, I did like the Gadget Gadget thingy and the Ood appearing at end was a nice lead into The End Of Time.

To be fair, none of the Specials were that great. Waters Of Mars was the worst of a bad bunch of episodes. Not RTD's finest hour and I love his time as showrunner to bits.

Whovian1109 · 01/12/13 - 01:46

I really liked this episode. I thought the ending was very very well done and showed Tennant's Doctor completely off the rails. Shame it was never really addressed properly but never mind.

Rewatch series 3, there are some real gems in there.

bigheather · 01/12/13 - 02:02

Outstanding episode. In my top 3. It's one of the few non-Christmas episodes that I've watched with people who were not fans of the show. They were riveted

Michael_Eve · 01/12/13 - 02:10

Of the 3 2009 episodes (Well, you know, TEOT part 2 was 2010 being Mr Pedantic) thought this was easily the best story. Great stuff and I agree that it's one of Tennant's best performances. Top quality 'Who'.

Haven't seen it in *ages* because I'd need to get the specials box-set....and would probably only watch this one.

(Although in fairness am quite fond of 'The Next Doctor'.)

[Deleted User] · 01/12/13 - 02:10

Very moving episode, I remember crying when Steffi died

Callum_Brown · 01/12/13 - 02:28

Very grisly and bloodthirsty - a nice high body count! Lindsay Duncan was absolutely fabulous, the story suited her character perfectly. Definitely the best of the specials (although I'll always have a soft spot for the final 20 minutes of TEOT2), and for me, it was RTD at his best.

Ed Sizzers · 01/12/13 - 02:49

It's good up until the end, but that last scene just never sat right with me. I completely get what RTD was trying to say, and all the stuff about the Doctor getting overcome with 'power' and changing a fixed point is a good concept. It's the resolution where it falls apart.

The story establishes that the destruction of the Mars base and the death of the crew is what inspires future generations, including Brooke's grandaughter. After the Doctor changes history, Brooke is concerned her Granddaughter's fate may change. When the Doctor explains it'll probably just happen differently and maybe she'll inspire her face to face, Brooke says "You can't know that." Which is fair enough.

But. By the same logic, she can have had no idea whatsoever that her suicide on Earth would put things back to (almost) the way they were supposed to be, Yes, as we see as the alternate newspaper stories play out, that does turn out to be the case. But it's really just down to luck. Surely Brooke would have realised that it wasn't simply her death but entirely how she died that shaped the future. And seemingly selfishly taking her own life for no apparent reason on Earth (having miraculously survived the disaster on Mars!) is hardly an inspiring story.

Even the revised news headlines kind of gloss over it, with Yuri and Mia's explanation of events presumably only explaining what happened on Mars and perhaps how they got back. But they wouldn't have been able to provide any insight regarding Brooke's suicide.

[Deleted User] · 01/12/13 - 02:55

Ed Sizzers wrote: »

It's good up until the end, but that last scene just never sat right with me. I completely get what RTD was trying to say, and all the stuff about the Doctor getting overcome with 'power' and changing a fixed point is a good concept. It's the resolution where it falls apart.

The story establishes that the destruction of the Mars base and the death of the crew is what inspires future generations, including Brooke's grandaughter. After the Doctor changes history, Brooke is concerned her Granddaughter's fate may change. When the Doctor explains it'll probably just happen differently and maybe she'll inspire her face to face, Brooke says "You can't know that." Which is fair enough.

But. By the same logic, she can have had no idea whatsoever that her suicide on Earth would put things back to (almost) the way they were supposed to be, Yes, as we see as the alternate newspaper stories play out, that does turn out to be the case. But it's really just down to luck. Surely Brooke would have realised that it wasn't simply her death but entirely how she died that shaped the future. And seemingly selfishly taking her own life for no apparent reason on Earth (having miraculously survived the disaster on Mars!) is hardly an inspiring story.

Even the revised news headlines kind of gloss over it, with Yuri and Mia's explanation of events presumably only explaining what happened on Mars and perhaps how they got back. But they wouldn't have been able to provide any insight regarding Brooke's suicide.

That is a very good point - I do think regardless though that her granddaughter would be inspired to continue her legacy regardless of where she died, as she and her crew began the mars expedition and showed the granddaughter that it was possible. You're right though, we'll never be able to know whether she turns out like that which is a bit of a pitfall but then again it showed how extreme and power hungry the doctor became, and her shooting herself was a good moment of reflection for the doctor and also a dramatic twist to the usual go home and say hello to your family jargon.

The episode was fit for purpose but I can see how viewers wanting to know more about how everything came together were a bit left out in the dark.

Corwin · 01/12/13 - 03:18

Ed Sizzers wrote: »

It's good up until the end, but that last scene just never sat right with me. I completely get what RTD was trying to say, and all the stuff about the Doctor getting overcome with 'power' and changing a fixed point is a good concept. It's the resolution where it falls apart.

The story establishes that the destruction of the Mars base and the death of the crew is what inspires future generations, including Brooke's grandaughter. After the Doctor changes history, Brooke is concerned her Granddaughter's fate may change. When the Doctor explains it'll probably just happen differently and maybe she'll inspire her face to face, Brooke says "You can't know that." Which is fair enough.

But. By the same logic, she can have had no idea whatsoever that her suicide on Earth would put things back to (almost) the way they were supposed to be, Yes, as we see as the alternate newspaper stories play out, that does turn out to be the case. But it's really just down to luck. Surely Brooke would have realised that it wasn't simply her death but entirely how she died that shaped the future. And seemingly selfishly taking her own life for no apparent reason on Earth (having miraculously survived the disaster on Mars!) is hardly an inspiring story.

Even the revised news headlines kind of gloss over it, with Yuri and Mia's explanation of events presumably only explaining what happened on Mars and perhaps how they got back. But they wouldn't have been able to provide any insight regarding Brooke's suicide.

I've always gone with the idea that the authorities not wanting a suicide of a Hero for unknown reasons spun the story that Adelaide found out she was infected once she got back to Earth and killed herself to stop the infection spreading.

So she ends up being an even greater Hero, not only the leader of the first colony on Mars but the saviour of the Earth.

November_Rain · 01/12/13 - 03:53

Ed Sizzers wrote: »

It's good up until the end, but that last scene just never sat right with me. I completely get what RTD was trying to say, and all the stuff about the Doctor getting overcome with 'power' and changing a fixed point is a good concept. It's the resolution where it falls apart.

The story establishes that the destruction of the Mars base and the death of the crew is what inspires future generations, including Brooke's grandaughter. After the Doctor changes history, Brooke is concerned her Granddaughter's fate may change. When the Doctor explains it'll probably just happen differently and maybe she'll inspire her face to face, Brooke says "You can't know that." Which is fair enough.

But. By the same logic, she can have had no idea whatsoever that her suicide on Earth would put things back to (almost) the way they were supposed to be, Yes, as we see as the alternate newspaper stories play out, that does turn out to be the case. But it's really just down to luck. Surely Brooke would have realised that it wasn't simply her death but entirely how she died that shaped the future. And seemingly selfishly taking her own life for no apparent reason on Earth (having miraculously survived the disaster on Mars!) is hardly an inspiring story.

Even the revised news headlines kind of gloss over it, with Yuri and Mia's explanation of events presumably only explaining what happened on Mars and perhaps how they got back. But they wouldn't have been able to provide any insight regarding Brooke's suicide.

Yep, that's my problem with the episode too. I put on the DVD before I head out to the cinema for the 50th and I thought the same then, as I did on prior viewings. Also, wasn't the Bowie Base One disaster supposed to be a fixed point? Yet Ten changed it regardless, so why no reapers like in Father's Day, or fracture in time causing all of history to happen at once like in The Wedding of River Song?

Adelaide's suicide wouldn't have changed a thing in that respect because surely she was supposed to die on Mars? And in any case the others to have made it out of the Bowie Base alive carried on living.

It's one of my favourite Tennant stories, if not my favourite ever with Tennant, but I'm convinced the ending was purely designed to shock, at the expense of making any logical sense.

Corwin · 01/12/13 - 04:32

November_Rain wrote: »

Yep, that's my problem with the episode too. I put on the DVD before I head out to the cinema for the 50th and I thought the same then, as I did on prior viewings. Also, wasn't the Bowie Base One disaster supposed to be a fixed point? Yet Ten changed it regardless, so why no reapers like in Father's Day, or fracture in time causing all of history to happen at once like in The Wedding of River Song?

The Reapers only appeared because the Doctor and Rose had already weakened Time by being in that same time and place twice.

Plus it depends on what exactly the Fixed Point was. If the Fixed point was just Adelaide's death then Time probably just shrugged and said "close enough".

Helbore · 01/12/13 - 04:57

Ed Sizzers wrote: »

It's good up until the end, but that last scene just never sat right with me. I completely get what RTD was trying to say, and all the stuff about the Doctor getting overcome with 'power' and changing a fixed point is a good concept. It's the resolution where it falls apart.

The story establishes that the destruction of the Mars base and the death of the crew is what inspires future generations, including Brooke's grandaughter. After the Doctor changes history, Brooke is concerned her Granddaughter's fate may change. When the Doctor explains it'll probably just happen differently and maybe she'll inspire her face to face, Brooke says "You can't know that." Which is fair enough.

But. By the same logic, she can have had no idea whatsoever that her suicide on Earth would put things back to (almost) the way they were supposed to be, Yes, as we see as the alternate newspaper stories play out, that does turn out to be the case. But it's really just down to luck. Surely Brooke would have realised that it wasn't simply her death but entirely how she died that shaped the future. And seemingly selfishly taking her own life for no apparent reason on Earth (having miraculously survived the disaster on Mars!) is hardly an inspiring story.

Even the revised news headlines kind of gloss over it, with Yuri and Mia's explanation of events presumably only explaining what happened on Mars and perhaps how they got back. But they wouldn't have been able to provide any insight regarding Brooke's suicide.

Yep, always felt the same. Its fantastic up until the end, but Adelaide's suicide makes no sense. Not only is her reasoning lacking in logic, but she'd been so against sacrificing herself and her people through most of the episode. She only finally set off the bomb because she realised all was lost and it was the only option - just as the Doctor had been saying. But then the Doctor saves them and proves there was another option. For her to go so fanatical in the opposite direction made no sense. If she really was so sure this was wrong, she should have hunted down her surviving colleagues and murdered them too, just to be sure the timeline wasn't altered.

But instead she just shoots herself inside her house and thinks that will maintain her "legend," status to her granddaughter. One death has her the explorer who dies on Mars, pioneering human exploration into space. The other has her someone who shot herself in the head whilst at home. It's not like the Martian monsters were something that was known about, so it couldn't be swung as her killing herself to protect the Earth.

It was a great episode overall, but the ending never made much sense.

Corwin · 01/12/13 - 05:06

Helbore wrote: »

It's not like the Martian monsters were something that was known about, so it couldn't be swung as her killing herself to protect the Earth.

Yuri and Mira would have told their story and Gadget may well have had some visual records to back them up.

We know they went public cause one of the newspapers seen has a story on the Doctor (who's an urban legend in 2059) rescuing them.

So as I said the authorities would have made Adelaide a Hero.

Of course You do have to wonder how the 11th Doctor going around wiping all records of himself from the Universe might have ended up changing things again

Philip_Lamb · 01/12/13 - 05:58

RTD steals the plot from the Halo games but adds the robot dog which inexplicably sprouts a rocket when the doctor points his wa.. sorry sonic screwdriver at it.

Kapellmeister · 01/12/13 - 06:10

Easily the best of the specials, as others have said, and the scene with Tennant and Lindsay Duncan at the end is terrific. The robot annoyed me so much but I'm prepared to overlook that. What a shame it was followed by the unwatchable End of Time two-parter.

CLL Dodge · 01/12/13 - 07:19

A well-paced story with a neat ending. Great bit of writing, well brought to the screen.

Pointy · 01/12/13 - 08:14

The only reason I finally got around to ordering the specials box set this past week.

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