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What do you think went wrong ?
I am at a loss to understand how we managed to perform so badly.
Was it total disharmony in the camp ? Do the players just not like Capello and his stubborness with 4 4 2 ?
Was it poor team selection ?
Did we bottle it ?
Are the best Premiership players only good when they rely on johnny foreigner at club level ?
Souness has said he has identified a major flaw in our altitude training
Are the players more tired than other countries ?
A Sunday League pub team wouldn't have made some of those errors today :mad:
Thoughts please ......
Was it total disharmony in the camp ? Do the players just not like Capello and his stubborness with 4 4 2 ?
Was it poor team selection ?
Did we bottle it ?
Are the best Premiership players only good when they rely on johnny foreigner at club level ?
Souness has said he has identified a major flaw in our altitude training
Are the players more tired than other countries ?
A Sunday League pub team wouldn't have made some of those errors today :mad:
Thoughts please ......
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Comments
So rather than instinctive play (which is quick) you got slooooow play.
In qualification they were still playing their normal instinctive game, when Capello had them for a longer period I think he beat it out of them and started to impose HIS system.
Another twenty matches and they would have been fine...
Hardly any crosses that failed to get past the first man, and as Lee Dixon said " a back four that looked like they had never met before "
I fear Capello's days are numbered.
The players aren't good enough.
The expectation to do well could make them even worse! We have average players that underperform making them seem even worse. :eek:
Simple.
You confuse the most popular football league in the world with the best. And you therefore assume that the likes of Rooney, Gerrard et al are the best in the world.
Weve been trying to tell you your stars are overrated for years now. Maybe now youll get it.
Thanks for clearing that up for us.
You can sneer all you want but until you 'get' those rather obvious facts, English football will continue to delude itself.
Spot on - for too long the last few England managers have seemed to pick the star names from the top clubs then just shoehorn them in so they all play - and even risk them when injured rather than pick a team of players all in their correct positions.
What should be tried imo:
Only pick players that are actually on form and fit and playing for their clubs - say before internationals they must have played in their clubs last 3 matches and for tournements the last 4 club matches and at least 2/3 of all the clubs matches that season - if they don't meet the criteria they don't get picked regardless of who they are.
Don't restrict to picking players from just the top clubs as a striker who has a good record or midfielder/defender who stands out at a lesser club might be a better bet as more impressive to do well surrounded by average players than surrounded by other top players.
When looking for a striker and comparing goals records don't count penalties only open play goals - no point in having a 20 goal striker who needed 15 penalties to get his tally, better a 10-15 goal striker who scored from open play.
Pick players for the position and play them where they normally play at club level - none of this central midfielder on the left so you can both play star central midfielders - drop one and pick a proper left winger.
As Scotland did in 1978...
Now really. You had some good players then - really good players and still went out in the group stages - underperforming. We've got the same.
I just think that we've got a good bunch of individual players who can't or won't play as a team. People can blame Terry's misdemeanours (and they obviously didn't help), but you have to ask what happened in 2006 (and qualifying in 2008) too.
This team (with Beckham and probably Rio) were supposed to be our "Golden Generation" of footballers. Now either we are deluding ourselves or the players simply can't be arsed to produce with an England shirt on.
If Capello stays on. I'd axe all of them and bring the Under 21s through as there's obviously an "I'm bigger than England" mentality with a lot of them.
No sneering on my part.
I think it's a shame that you lump all England fans into the same category by your over use of the word "you".
Some of us may even agree with you.
BTW, typing in bold does seem a tad over agessive.
:rolleyes: <-- back at ya.
He spotted Seaman off his line, and in true Brazilian style, made him look foolish. A piece of Brazilian magic.
Agreed - sadly not quite magical enough to convince Dull Dunga to include him in the 2010 team!
I know Ronnie's had his problems both at Barca toward the end of his tenure there and at AC Milan - but he's just one of those flawed genius players I can't help having a soft spot for!
The thing is, when a Brazillian scores a fluke, people are duped into believing it was intentional. Same with Maicons goal.
I think they simply play alongside better players in Premiership games.
Unfortunately for the national team, those better players playing alongside Lampard; Rooney; Gerrard etc in Premier League games, aren't English.
As such, the Premier League makes our 'world-class' players look better than they really are. This fact gets exposed, usually once every major tournament.
Many England fans do know the limitations. It is the pre tournament hype from the media, and the part time fans who suddenly believe we're world beaters.
What we've had in the past is a top goalkeeper, and a solid defence, and those factors, together with our organisation has helped us compete to a degree.
Coming into the tournament, it was obvious the keeper, and defence were in a bit of a state, and it was a matter of time before we were destroyed because of that.
Our supposed world class players are not actually at that level, and if we understand that, the disappointment is not so great.
Indeed. What is also weird is why did Capello sign a contract BEFORE the tournament? I like Capello though and he did superb in qualifying so not sure what went wrong in SA. He was different from McClaren, Sven et al who tried to be your mate. Was he too strict?
Playing players out of position and doing the opposite of what he said he'd do (ie pick form players) is one but the players have to be blamed.
So Capello was to blame for a supposedly "great" player like John Terry looking completely out of his depth as a defender? Too many of the players are more interested in the glitter of the celebrity hype that surrounds them now and think they are much better than they actually are.
Agreed, too many players are picked on hype surrounding their reputation, rather than because of their current form.
But that also points to the poor ability of our players. A good player should be able to adapt to playing in a different position. Why don't other countries have the same problems because a player is played out of position?
I agree, there is no point in changing the organ-grinder if the same monkeys are still played, nothing will improve.
A radical whole-sale change needs to be implemented with every Premier league having a core of English players but that won't happen, it will all be brushed under the carpet and nothing will change. And in four years time forums like this one will still be saying the same things.