Quick scout around my work place - most have heard of the 'anti-semitism' story.
Only I and one other (also a politics nerd) has heard of the Tory electoral fraud, which is actually a criminal allegation.
Unbelievable how much this story is being suppressed.
Surely e.g. "dodgy tory campaign accounts" would be better than something that implied vote-rigging which had people looking and then thinking "oh dodgy accounts, big deal, everyone does that" and then clicking on "7 shocking secrets of synthetic carpets and door handles" because they just couldn't help themselves.
There isn't much under "election fraud" except a quote from Carswell and if social media had really been in 'meltdown' then even I might have seen some sign of it.
Electoral fraud or vote rigging is illegal interference with the process of an election. Acts of fraud affect vote counts to bring about an election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favored candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates, or both. What constitutes electoral fraud under law varies from country to country.
I can't help noticing that a thread on such an important issue has (at time of writing) not even managed to limp to 2 pages, I wonder how many it would be if it was Labour being investigated? we would, I am sure, be knee deep in sneers and abuse and several pages in by now.
I think that is a good point. Just imagine if the allegations about Road-Trip were against the Labour Party and not against the Mystery Tours organised by Lord Feldman.
The source said: "All she remembers is that she woke up naked and doesn't remember getting undressed." The Telegraph was unable to reach the MP involved in the claims last night.
It comes as police consider action over sex, drugs, bullying and blackmail allegations that threaten to engulf the party.
The complaint was made to Simon Mort, a senior CCHQ member also charged with handling a dossier of bullying allegations against Mr Clarke.
Another MP has threatened an injunction against The Telegraph after a whistleblower claimed he attended parties where young men and women were encouraged to sleep with MPs.
He was named as one of five MPs who were "always in attendance" during sleazy encounters with young female and male activists.
... He was named as one of five MPs who were "always in attendance" during sleazy encounters with young female and male activists. ...
From the link given it seems that 22 years old is considered shockingly young.
e2a: There's more than enough fodder with actual facts in it without needing anything added. No need to gild the lily. A phrase I had originally thought was a multi-purpose euphemism.
Do YOU want to "see all allegations of electoral fraud investigated rigorously no matter who is being accused,?" or do you think some parties should get a free 'pass'? especially ones whose name begins with 'Con' and ends with 'ives'?
It's just lucky they didn't paint the bus pink, that would have generated 20 or 30 pages of comment! Oh no, that was Labour doing something trivial, not the Conservatives possibly committing a criminal act.
It's just lucky they didn't paint the bus pink, that would have generated 20 or 30 pages of comment! Oh no, that was Labour doing something trivial, not the Conservatives possibly committing a criminal act.
I find it incredible that some are still insisting there is no anti Labour bias in most of the mainstream media, I wonder if this would have ever got any attention in the media at all if not for the determination of a handful of people at channel 4?
I am not for one second playing down accusations of racism against one Labour MP, and strong believe that all and any such accusations should be fully investigated regardless of the party involved,
But the subject of this thread is serious allegations against twenty four Tory MPs which have seen the electoral commission, the police, and the CPS involved,
now, regardless of whether any charges or convictions are forthcoming, it is perfectly reasonable to ask why this has not been given anywhere NEAR the same amount of coverage or negative attention in the media as has the suspension of one Labour MP?
I can't recall a clearer example of blatant media bias against one major political party in the run up to elections, and yet some Tory supporters prefer to play it down and to make sarcastic comments against those expressing concern about what is happening in our media.
How tribal can someone be to attempt to defend possible electoral fraud.
That's about as tribal as it gets.
Where did I defend electoral fraud? Looking at Labours record alongside that of the Tories is not the same as defending the Tories. Unless you think Labours record is worse?
I would imagine that anyone who supports democracy would want to see all allegations of electoral fraud investigated rigorously no matter who is being accused,
You would imagine correctly, I look forward to your contribution next time Labour get caught with sticky fingers in the ballot box, again. ;-)
Where did I defend electoral fraud? Looking at Labours record alongside that of the Tories is not the same as defending the Tories. Unless you think Labours record is worse?
Sorry I was rendered temporarily catatonic by Jols' newfound commitment to bipartisanship.
AH so saying "apparently" renders it unnecessary for you to provide an example of someone saying the thing you claim is "apparent" fair enough then "apparently" it's perfectly acceptable for the Tory party to constantly lie, to hate the poor, the sick and the disabled.
I find it incredible that some are still insisting there is no anti Labour bias in most of the mainstream media, I wonder if this would have ever got any attention in the media at all if not for the determination of a handful of people at channel 4?
The only media left with some clout is the BBC - On the whole Newspapers are dead and have killed their audience by not have a free web presence.
The BBC is Labour Bias - Therefore IMHO the mainstream media is biased towards labour.
A case could be made for Sky News balancing out the BBC but I dont see any anti labour bias in most mainstream media.
According to Channel 4 News when they were doing their update on the story it seems the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.
The police had a meeting with the Electoral Commission. The Electoral commission are the ones who have the "evidence" most of which has not been passed to the police. The police are the ones that have to go to court to get an extension to the 12 months period in which prosecutions \ charges should be made. As they don't have the evidence they don't know how to apply for an extension because if they make it vague it will be thrown out but if they name the MPs and nothing comes of the case then it leaves them open to all sorts of charges and allegations.
I got the impression from what Channel 4 were saying that the police don't want to touch this with a barge pole. (That's a personal opinion only not claiming it as fact).
Is it to do with postal ballot fraud and dead people voting? No wait, that's Labour. it's to do with the Tories spending more than they should.
Which is worse. Apparently.
It's corrupt.
The rule is there for good reason.
If you break the rule then you don't care about the values and principles which are supposed to be part of the foundations which support a democratic framework.
The rule is there for good reason.
If you break the rule then you don't care about the values and principles which are supposed to be part of the foundations which support a democratic framework.
I agree, and it cuts both ways.
Neither side gives a flying one about democracy, if they did we wouldn't be lumbered with FPTP.
Very few people care because it is mainly a technical point about whether the "battle buses" should have been accounted for in local election spending or national.
The amounts involved are relatively trivial as well.
But.. but.. The 'battle buses' were sekretly stuffed with ballot papers, and toured the polling stations, where large boxes were seen to be moved.
Or not. But must be slow news day. I understood it the way you did, ie an adminstrative thing & the costs were declared. It also seems to make sense for it to be a central cost. But political opponents presumably think it's more efficient to calculate cost per mile, and then allocate costs to the constituencies it's travelling to, from, or just passing through.
I guess there should be a full, judicial led, independent public inquiry into this latest scandal!
In the middle of a discussion about something else, someone will pop up with something about "Tory election fraud", to quiz someone who's critical of Labour about why they aren't criticising "Tory election fraus", or to ask why the "right wing media" (which the tweeters seem to think includes the BBC) aren't covering it. Some even claim it's somehow why the Tories won the general election.
Is there some kind of claim of vote-rigging, or something? Or is it just the election expenses story relabelled as "fraud"?
Comments
Only I and one other (also a politics nerd) has heard of the Tory electoral fraud, which is actually a criminal allegation.
Unbelievable how much this story is being suppressed.
Surely e.g. "dodgy tory campaign accounts" would be better than something that implied vote-rigging which had people looking and then thinking "oh dodgy accounts, big deal, everyone does that" and then clicking on "7 shocking secrets of synthetic carpets and door handles" because they just couldn't help themselves.
There isn't much under "election fraud" except a quote from Carswell and if social media had really been in 'meltdown' then even I might have seen some sign of it.
People's first assumption is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud
I think that is a good point. Just imagine if the allegations about Road-Trip were against the Labour Party and not against the Mystery Tours organised by Lord Feldman.
The source said: "All she remembers is that she woke up naked and doesn't remember getting undressed." The Telegraph was unable to reach the MP involved in the claims last night.
It comes as police consider action over sex, drugs, bullying and blackmail allegations that threaten to engulf the party.
The complaint was made to Simon Mort, a senior CCHQ member also charged with handling a dossier of bullying allegations against Mr Clarke.
Another MP has threatened an injunction against The Telegraph after a whistleblower claimed he attended parties where young men and women were encouraged to sleep with MPs.
He was named as one of five MPs who were "always in attendance" during sleazy encounters with young female and male activists.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12010764/Tatler-Tory-scandal-22-year-old-activists-lost-night-with-MP.html
e2a: There's more than enough fodder with actual facts in it without needing anything added. No need to gild the lily. A phrase I had originally thought was a multi-purpose euphemism.
It's just lucky they didn't paint the bus pink, that would have generated 20 or 30 pages of comment! Oh no, that was Labour doing something trivial, not the Conservatives possibly committing a criminal act.
I find it incredible that some are still insisting there is no anti Labour bias in most of the mainstream media, I wonder if this would have ever got any attention in the media at all if not for the determination of a handful of people at channel 4?
I am not for one second playing down accusations of racism against one Labour MP, and strong believe that all and any such accusations should be fully investigated regardless of the party involved,
But the subject of this thread is serious allegations against twenty four Tory MPs which have seen the electoral commission, the police, and the CPS involved,
now, regardless of whether any charges or convictions are forthcoming, it is perfectly reasonable to ask why this has not been given anywhere NEAR the same amount of coverage or negative attention in the media as has the suspension of one Labour MP?
I can't recall a clearer example of blatant media bias against one major political party in the run up to elections, and yet some Tory supporters prefer to play it down and to make sarcastic comments against those expressing concern about what is happening in our media.
Where did I defend electoral fraud? Looking at Labours record alongside that of the Tories is not the same as defending the Tories. Unless you think Labours record is worse?
Sorry I was rendered temporarily catatonic by Jols' newfound commitment to bipartisanship.
Here you go.
You would imagine correctly, I look forward to your contribution next time Labour get caught with sticky fingers in the ballot box, again. ;-)
The only media left with some clout is the BBC - On the whole Newspapers are dead and have killed their audience by not have a free web presence.
The BBC is Labour Bias - Therefore IMHO the mainstream media is biased towards labour.
A case could be made for Sky News balancing out the BBC but I dont see any anti labour bias in most mainstream media.
I knew you would catch on. ;-)
They seem to think so, perhaps you should take that up with someone who thinks there is a distinction between how Labour and the Tories behave?
ETA:Oh yeah, since we are chasing each other for responses perhaps you could get round to addressing this?
The police had a meeting with the Electoral Commission. The Electoral commission are the ones who have the "evidence" most of which has not been passed to the police. The police are the ones that have to go to court to get an extension to the 12 months period in which prosecutions \ charges should be made. As they don't have the evidence they don't know how to apply for an extension because if they make it vague it will be thrown out but if they name the MPs and nothing comes of the case then it leaves them open to all sorts of charges and allegations.
I got the impression from what Channel 4 were saying that the police don't want to touch this with a barge pole. (That's a personal opinion only not claiming it as fact).
It's corrupt.
The rule is there for good reason.
If you break the rule then you don't care about the values and principles which are supposed to be part of the foundations which support a democratic framework.
Done.
Thank you.
I agree, and it cuts both ways.
Neither side gives a flying one about democracy, if they did we wouldn't be lumbered with FPTP.
But.. but.. The 'battle buses' were sekretly stuffed with ballot papers, and toured the polling stations, where large boxes were seen to be moved.
Or not. But must be slow news day. I understood it the way you did, ie an adminstrative thing & the costs were declared. It also seems to make sense for it to be a central cost. But political opponents presumably think it's more efficient to calculate cost per mile, and then allocate costs to the constituencies it's travelling to, from, or just passing through.
I guess there should be a full, judicial led, independent public inquiry into this latest scandal!
Could it be this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3575580/Police-launch-general-election-fraud-probe-amid-claims-Conservative-Party-failed-properly-declare-battle-bus-spending.html
Nope, I think it's probably this
MPs launch inquiry into minister's interference in public poll
Finally some suggestion that the will of the people must be followed
I most definitely agree with you. I believe that both of the main parties are failing us.
The day after the polls close, Radio 4's Today Program mentions the Tory over spending story!!!
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-06/labour-councillor-who-thought-he-had-lost-re-elected-after-votes-found-under-tory-pile/
"Tory Pile" - I thought they were talking about Saltwood Castle for a moment, there...
Yes, admin error.
Wow!
Second mention at 7:40. Amazing how this is now on the agenda after the polls have closed.
Yes, it's almost as if there are some rules about what can be reported on before elections that don't apply after the polls close.
Spooky.