Gay Icon - why Judy Garland???

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  • icanboogieicanboogie Posts: 770
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    as a vagina decliner all i can say is that i have loved judy ever since i saw her in the wizard of oz at about 7 years old but at that time i wanted to be glenda the good witch of the north.
  • Tulip19Tulip19 Posts: 3,076
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    OK, so assuming that's Judy sorted...

    I have to admit being somewhat bemused, having been a fan of Judy for as long as I can remember and given my love of the early musicals.

    Does it include the opera too?

    And who else has the "gay icon" tag and why?

    Liza Minelli, for obvious reasons. Barbra Streisand. I'm no authority but this is the impression I've got from talking to people.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 406
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    I think the 'Friend of Dorothy' reference refers to the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy befirends those that are different and spurned by society...similar to how gay people feel/felt.

    For the record, we do love a good tragey and Judy was tragic on an epic level. I am not a big fan but I read an in depth biog once and it really was heartbraking
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 10,488
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  • Prince MonaluluPrince Monalulu Posts: 35,900
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    dgjbear wrote: »
    I think the 'Friend of Dorothy' reference refers to the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy befirends those that are different and spurned by society...similar to how gay people feel/felt.

    For the record, we do love a good tragey and Judy was tragic on an epic level. I am not a big fan but I read an in depth biog once and it really was heartbraking

    BIB is the nearest thing to an explanation I can understand.

    Oh whatever...
  • jill1812jill1812 Posts: 12,560
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    flobadob wrote: »
    Maybe it's because her husband Vincente Minnelli was gay.

    So was her father.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,114
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    How can the cheeky girls make the gay icon list:rolleyes:

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-3431.html/
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Missy Moo wrote: »
    Maria Callas - an actual diva!

    Is that true or are you just pulling my leg now?
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    The death and funeral of Judy Garland led to the Stonewall Riots and The GLF.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Clearly I wasn't the only one to not know the origins of the whole "Judy Garland gay icon" thing - so glad I asked.

    I've also found a section of the board I don't think I've ever visted before; having had the thread moved here :D
  • ListentomeListentome Posts: 9,804
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    CXC3000 wrote: »
    What an odd person for gay people to idolise - I mean, there are tons of people out there (who are gay), that could fit that category.

    Why not choose them ? :confused:

    Why the confusion? I actually find that comment a little naive. You think gay people should only idolise other gay people?

    Surely gay men can idolise Judy and still have room to idolise other people. Why should gay men only idolise gay people?

    Look at it this way, do you think all of Freddy Mercury's fans are gay? Of course not. Straight people idolise him, so why can't gay people idolise a straight person?
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Listentome wrote: »
    Why the confusion? I actually find that comment a little naive. You think gay people should only idolise other gay people?

    Surely gay men can idolise Judy and still have room to idolise other people. Why should gay men only idolise gay people?

    Look at it this way, do you think all of Freddy Mercury's fans are gay? Of course not. Straight people idolise him, so why can't gay people idolise a straight person?

    Why not offer your own explanation instead of going on the deffensive?

    I haven't noticed you attempt to do so yet...
  • ListentomeListentome Posts: 9,804
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    Why not offer your own explanation instead of going on the deffensive?

    I haven't noticed you attempt to do so yet...

    In what way am I going on the defensive? I'm just pointing out that gay people don't only admire other gay people. I was asking for clarification from the poster, so not sure why you are jumping down my throat.

    I didn't write my own explanation because I was asking the poster questions. Besides, I didn't put an explanation because I don't think the whole thing requires one. Gay men happen to like Judy Garland. But then so do thousands of straight people.

    Apologies, no offense was intended. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,728
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    Gay men attach themselves to strong female characters, especially in entertainment and music.

    Yeah, other ones being:
    Shirley Bassey
    Barbara Streisand
    Madonna
    Diana Ross
    Kylie
    to name but five

    Years ago I got dragged along to a Diana Ross concert with some friends of mine in Birmingham NEC and it was like a night out in Soho.:D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,679
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    icanboogie wrote: »
    as a vagina decliner
    :D What a brilliant phrase, never heard it before.

    Yes, I do live a sheltered life.
    all i can say is that i have loved judy ever since i saw her in the wizard of oz at about 7 years old but at that time i wanted to be glenda the good witch of the north.

    She had better hair.
  • GaditanoGaditano Posts: 2,224
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    It's not just The Wizard of Oz. Watch her in A Star Is Born and hear her sing The Man That Got Away. Generations of queens have identified with that one! (me included.)

    As for the question of why gay men didn't idolise gay performers, back in Judy's era (1930s, 40s, 50s) there WEREN'T ANY, by which I mean none who were able to say they were gay.

    Richard Dyer's book Heavenly Creatures has a definitive chapter on Judy and gay men.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Listentome wrote: »
    I'm just pointing out that gay people don't only admire other gay people.
    There is a difference between that and having someone widely aknoledged as an icon...
    Listentome wrote: »
    I didn't write my own explanation because I was asking the poster questions..
    I think it's quite clear what you were doing. Start you own thread if you are really interested.in the answers...
    Listentome wrote: »
    Besides, I didn't put an explanation because I don't think the whole thing requires one.
    Well I do, if you aren't interested then find another thread.
  • Beautiful_HarvBeautiful_Harv Posts: 9,144
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    leosw4 wrote: »
    Yeah, other ones being:
    Shirley Bassey
    Barbara Streisand
    Madonna
    Diana Ross
    Kylie
    to name but five

    Years ago I got dragged along to a Diana Ross concert with some friends of mine in Birmingham NEC and it was like a night out in Soho.:D

    what about Dolly Parton? My 'vagina decliner' friend loves her! (love that name, apologies for stealing it :D) and i am a bit partial to a bit of dolly myself- but im not gay :o
  • glyn9799glyn9799 Posts: 7,391
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    leosw4 wrote: »
    Yeah, other ones being:
    Shirley Bassey
    Barbara Streisand
    Madonna
    Diana Ross
    Kylie
    to name but five

    Years ago I got dragged along to a Diana Ross concert with some friends of mine in Birmingham NEC and it was like a night out in Soho.:D

    Great list, but i can't belive you've missed one of the biggest and most prolific gay icons... CHER!!!
  • ListentomeListentome Posts: 9,804
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    There is a difference between that and having someone widely aknoledged as an icon...

    I think it's quite clear what you were doing. Start you own thread if you are really interested.in the answers...
    Well I do, if you aren't interested then find another thread.

    I'm going to send you a private message, because I don't think what I have to say should go here. Only one thing, you are completely misjudging me and that is not fair.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Gaditano wrote: »
    It's not just The Wizard of Oz. Watch her in A Star Is Born and hear her sing The Man That Got Away.
    Any excuse to post a clip! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJjAVPQ-MTQ
    Gaditano wrote: »
    Richard Dyer's book Heavenly Creatures has a definitive chapter on Judy and gay men.
    Are there any quotes available?

    Some of the other names popping up are interesting too...
  • rorybbrorybb Posts: 3,220
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    I think Ellen Degeneres could be counted as a gay icon , Lady Gaga might be one in about 10 years
  • LolaSveltLolaSvelt Posts: 2,293
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    ...because she was in The Wizard of Oz, which is more camp than Glastonbury!

    Isn't Lady Gaga already one? She is pretty much duplicating Madonna's fame.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    LolaSvelt wrote: »
    ...because she was in The Wizard of Oz, which is more camp than Glastonbury!.
    Several people have said that so I suppose it must be, but having seen the film many times I can't say I'd ever thought of it as such... :o

    As a little aside the first time my current wife met my brother I asked in passing what she thought of him and she said "he's very camp isn't he?". Truth is I really hadn't noticed. When I relayed this to my sister later she replied "bloody hell hadn't you noticed? Even one of his girlfriends asked me if he was gay". So I guess I'm not too hot at spotting these things :D
  • mikebukmikebuk Posts: 18,691
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    LolaSvelt wrote: »
    ...because she was in The Wizard of Oz, which is more camp than Glastonbury!

    Isn't Lady Gaga already one? She is pretty much duplicating Madonna's fame.

    I think The Sun mentioned Angelina Jolie was the ideal lady's lady recently.
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