Oscar Pistorius Bail Hearing Begins

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  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    mazzy50 wrote: »
    I disagree.

    This is a gated compound inhabited by the well heeled, not some seedy township with people shouting and brawling on a nightly basis. Are you seriously suggesting that whilst being interviewed on the night a visitor to one of their neighbour's houses was shot dead - the house of none other than national hero Oscar Pistorius - they are somehow not going to b able to recall what they saw and heard whilst OP could?

    Apparently there hasn't even been a burglary at that compound in the last 5 years, so I would think whatever happened on the night of Feb 14th is pretty well burned into the retinas of whoever was there to witness it and there is absolutely no reason to believe that the witnesses recollections are any less accurate than OP's - and as i said before, if anyone is likely to be less than truthful it will be OP, not the witnesses.

    Quite.
  • stargazer61stargazer61 Posts: 70,906
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    francie wrote: »
    Me personally - would like to think I would get my loved ones together and get the hell out of the place asap, even with a gun in my hand. Material things can be replaced.

    But that is the problem. What you would actually do would depend on so many factors including something as simple as the layout of your home. You may think that you would shout a warning to others but then find yourself mute with fear. If you are woken up by an intruder, it may take you a few precious seconds to register what is happening and the try and make rational decisions. It is all so very complex.
  • Ada RabbleAda Rabble Posts: 3,317
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    The question the defence asked of Botha was - could the witness hearing these arguments be 100% sure they came from OPs house from that distance. It's a rhetorical question really because of course the answer would be no.

    Well the fact they heard shouting and commotion in the early hours and then a woman was shot dead, it stands to reason it was the same incident.
    Many people have verified screaming in other cases before after a murder. Its not usually suggested it doesn't tie in
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    I didn't realise that his front door was unlocked never mind the windows. Why would someone so concerned with security go to bed with their front door unlocked?
  • Ella NutElla Nut Posts: 8,891
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    Not at any point, not once did he hear one single sound from Reeva, not when shouting to her to call the police as he was making his way to the bathroom area (and how quickly would he have been able to do that on his stumps?), not when he shouted at the "intruder" and finally when he fired the first shot.
  • Ada RabbleAda Rabble Posts: 3,317
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    This is one of the strange things about the way this is done there.

    The defence are asking Botha awkward questions about other witnesses evidence. he cant answer for them.

    They clearly know that, and know it will cause people to come to their side.

    Thankfully, the Judge will know too.

    Good point
  • JoTaylorJoTaylor Posts: 9,870
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    LH1 wrote: »
    I didn't realise that his front door was unlocked never mind the windows. Why would someone so concerned with security go to bed with their front door unlocked?

    I must admit a couple of things have come up this morning that I didn't already know. I thought the empty bladder was a definite but it appears not.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    But that is the problem. What you would actually do would depend on so many factors including something as simple as the layout of your home. You may think that you would shout a warning to others but then find yourself mute with fear. If you are woken up by an intruder, it may take you a few precious seconds to register what is happening and the try and make rational decisions. It is all so very complex.

    I'm talking as though I'm in OP's home...the time he took to get his gun and make his way to the bathroom area and blasted away he could have got his gun and made his way out of the room. He was awake by all accounts (he'd been on the balcony). I stand by what I said, I would get myself and loved ones out of the house asap.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    LH1 wrote: »
    I didn't realise that his front door was unlocked never mind the windows. Why would someone so concerned with security go to bed with their front door unlocked?

    Didn't he say that he went down stairs to unlock the door for the paramedics? or have I got that wrong :confused:
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    One thing is becoming worryingly clear is that I doubt very much the truth will ever be known .Only Oscar and Reeva know it and unless something turns up in the forensics to prove he is lieing or indeed telling the truth I have a feeling this will be one of lifes mysteries and discussed for many years
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    francie wrote: »
    Didn't he say that he went down stairs to unlock the door for the paramedics? or have I got that wrong :confused:

    I'm not sure to be honest but Nel for the state has been refering to the fact that the front door was open in the live feed.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    One thing is becoming worryingly clear is that I doubt very much the truth will ever be known .Only Oscar and Reeva know it and unless something turns up in the forensics to prove he is lieing or indeed telling the truth I have a feeling this will be one of lifes mysteries and discussed for many years

    I truly hope that if, if he is guilty then he gets punished accordingly.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    LH1 wrote: »
    I'm not sure to be honest but Nel for the state has been refering to the fact that the front door was open in the live feed.

    It's all getting very confusing.
  • saralundsaralund Posts: 3,377
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    I wonder why he carried Reeva downstairs to try to revive her? Presumably he had to take time to pull on his legs to do that? Why not try resuscitation on the bathroom floor? Or lie her on the bed?

    Was there anything upstairs that he didn't want the emergency services to see?
  • SeaBreezeSeaBreeze Posts: 125
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    saralund wrote: »
    I wonder why he carried Reeva downstairs to try to revive her? Presumably he had to take time to pull on his legs to do that? Why not try resuscitation on the bathroom floor? Or lie her on the bed?

    Was there anything upstairs that he didn't want the emergency services to see?

    I seem to recall he claimed that he was told not to wait for the ambulance, to try and get her to hospital himself. Can't remember if that was in his affidavit or whether the defence lawyer mentioned it
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    saralund wrote: »
    I wonder why he carried Reeva downstairs to try to revive her? Presumably he had to take time to pull on his legs to do that? Why not try resuscitation on the bathroom floor? Or lie her on the bed?

    Was there anything upstairs that he didn't want the emergency services to see?

    It makes no sense to me either .He found her bleeding and the obvious thing is to lie her on the bedroom floor . But he seems to have avoided anything obvious and done the exact oppossite to obvious .
  • SeaBreezeSeaBreeze Posts: 125
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    saralund wrote: »
    I wonder why he carried Reeva downstairs to try to revive her? Presumably he had to take time to pull on his legs to do that? Why not try resuscitation on the bathroom floor? Or lie her on the bed?

    Was there anything upstairs that he didn't want the emergency services to see?

    here you go...this is copied from his affidavit:

    "I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms".
  • SeaBreezeSeaBreeze Posts: 125
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  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    SeaBreeze wrote: »
    here you go...this is copied from his affidavit:

    "I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms".

    Not disputing they did but I find it very odd that paramedics would advice to move a gunshot victim who is dieing into a car and drive to the hospital .
  • SeaBreezeSeaBreeze Posts: 125
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    Not disputing they did but I find it very odd that paramedics would advice to move a gunshot victim who is dieing into a car and drive to the hospital .

    yep, me too...hopefully that can be checked though.
  • GinaHGinaH Posts: 853
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    Not disputing they did but I find it very odd that paramedics would advice to move a gunshot victim who is dieing into a car and drive to the hospital .


    They will surely have the call taped? We might hear it at trial?
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
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    SeaBreeze wrote: »
    here you go...this is copied from his affidavit:

    "I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms".

    One unnecessary trip there...why not carry her downstairs and put her down to open the door?
  • JoTaylorJoTaylor Posts: 9,870
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    SeaBreeze wrote: »
    here you go...this is copied from his affidavit:

    "I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door. I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms".

    I can only assume then that Netcare didn't know that he was the one who shot her cos I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have said 'yeah you get yourself out of the house'.

    Actually I'm not buying that at all - would they honestly tell you to carry someone downstairs and drive a gunshot person to hospital - especially as he's probably given his name and the person on the other end would be more than aware of his disability?
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
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    Not disputing they did but I find it very odd that paramedics would advice to move a gunshot victim who is dieing into a car and drive to the hospital .

    Yes I find that strange too.
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
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    GinaH wrote: »
    They will surely have the call taped? We might hear it at trial?

    I am guessing we will .I just find it strange as the main thing is to stem bleeding and they were on their way anyway as they turned up soon .So why tell him to move a bleeding victim into a car ? Odd that .
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