actually I thought the coin belonged to Sylvie . but either way - what would it prove ? obviously it leads them to something , Sylvie or Alain will say "oh I lost that . . . . . oh I can't stand it anymore , I'll tell you everything ... " whatever that is .
Didn't Mark resign when he missed out on promotion. Maybe that is what Malik is referring to.
You are right that it would cut the coincidence down if he is a detective used as a liaison officer. I've gone with his own description of being the English liaison officer assigned to the case because he was on holiday nearby - maybe that is why it doesn't sit right with me!
Yes, i agree, cant see any UK officer investigating any crime and taking his Son with him so he had to be on holiday, made contact for approval to help and investigate as he was there. not sure if Tony and Emily knew the liaison officer was a pretense but i assume everyone must in 2014 as Malak knows.
my guess at this point is - Ollie saw something that day , something that would incriminate the gang or someone , they abducted him to keep him quiet until they could figure out what to do with him . But he ended up dead somehow , trying to escape maybe .
New to forum, love this series and agree that it's length is relevant to help us fully understand the circumstances. I've enjoyed the split time differences. Usually at this point in a series I have a clear idea of who my main suspect is but this has been so very cleverly written that I don't know what the likely outcome will be. It's probably the most true to life series I have watched in that we have seen that similar situations can and do take years to solve.
My comments are on the coin - whether it is Alain's or not is irrelevant, whether it was planted or switched is irrelevant. The fact that Tony believes he knows who it belongs to is relevant, as this will lead them to Alain who must know something as it's the last episode so a conclusion will be reached because of that link. I think the person in the trailer being dragged away is Alain.
I haven't liked Mark from the beginning but maybe the worst thing he has done is simply take advantage of a vulnerable woman. As a family liaison officer I do find it odd that he is seen to be more involved in the investigation side of things than spending time with the family 'liaising'! He does also seem to be around when important information is revealed, which later looks like it has been leaked to the Romanian gang. Baptists also seems to trust him explicitly.
BIB 1 - Yes I think it is Alain and have done since Tony identified the coin. It seems that the trailers for this are often the very early part of the next episode. I suggest Alain is arrested very quickly. This will be a surprise for many as I suspect they think he is dead. He hasn't been seen at the hotel in 2014. The paedophile ring will start to unravel. The hotel will be investigated and the non-working television will be explained. etc. etc.
BIB 2 - As you say Mark has not been doing a liaison job. If you think back to the bloke in Broadchurch with the Latimers. Baptiste knows him or knows of him I suspect as he is so readily prepared to share key information of the case with him. I do think he is working for Interpol which would explain this. You have identified also that he is 'about' when key information is discussed and that finds it way back to the Romanian gang. They had to do a quick flit from the getaway point when the police arrived. Was Ollie in the woods?
Stub71 As a spoiler what are you now thinking after watching the U.S. trailer which I can't view?!?
There's an extension for Chrome called Hola Better Internet which allows you to change your location to the US, so you can watch the trailer. There may well be something similar for other browsers, or you can use a private proxy to hide that you're from the UK.
Regarding the scenes in the trailer:
The wedding scene to me suggests Emily and Mark get married in the end, therefore, Mark is not responsible for Ollie's death. The scene looks similar to the one on the bridge where Emily saw Ollie, so I think, unfortunately, the little lad is dead.
Watching one of the scenes in the woods, I notice that the boy is filmed from behind and has different clothes to what Ollie was wearing when he disappeared. I have no idea what it means, but it looked like the boy was running towards someone he knew.
Personally I think the paedophile link is a red herring and Ollie wandered off from the bar, saw something he wasn't supposed to and was taken by criminals in panic. Ollie escapes from the house he is being held in, and goes into the woods. From there, who knows? Perhaps he just disappears and is never seen again. Perhaps he is killed by accident? It's been nearly impossible so far to second guess what's going to happen next, so I'm prepared for anything!
Is there a chance the coin belongs to someone else? Alain can't surely be the only alcoholic in the town.
It could but given that Tony will have identified Alain then the police will go looking for him and pull him in. All that scene shows is someone being captured by police. It will be the immediate next step.
We womenfolk LIKE our good old-fashioned heroes who are......... ethical, moral, kind, compassionate, unselfish, intelligent, empathic, tender,............. etc., etc., etc.; yet still masculine, courageous and heroic and willing to stand up for what's right and good and just in this world.
We are sick and tired of cynicism and endless gratuitous violence and anti-heroes who at best have little or no moral compass, and at worst are serial killers or the like.
We want to be entertained, thrilled, uplifted, and ultimately swept off our feet by the lovable package of qualities that makes up a proper hero. And if that package is delivered in the shape of a half-Turkish, half-Greek 61-year-old actor with an almost edibly delicious French accent, so much the better!
Dear CubicEyes, this says it all so please may I copy it, print it and stick it on my wall? I love it
:D What about you, TRIPS, you're not planning to abandon 'ship' are you?
Mary Garrett was already showing signs of odd behaviour when she was desperately trying to scrub a stain off her table-cloth!!! I wonder if we've seen the last of his Ian's house.
Aye, the stain from Vincent Bourgs 5th birthday cake candles, the 5th birthday. He spent the day or part of the day with Mary Garrett and something happened then, after the family photo was taken. I thought those were wax droppings, not ice cream. I think Mary trying to clean that stain is something to do with suspicion of Ian or Vincent.
The telephone code of his UK place is a Dartford code.
Does Bourg go into a 'Molly mode' in adult life? Believes he is Molly so much that anything he does as Bourg is blotted out.
Whats the verdict on Davina's theory on Greg and the man in opening scene.?
Different man for me, check the sideburns. Also I think the jumpers might be different colours (slightly!). Hard to be 100% though.
Don't think it is the same guy (and definitely not the same jumper, different fit and style) There is no way that greg would not recognise Tony.
FWIW - I suggested that the boy was the 13yr old Ollie ages ago but can't really see how. Can't wait to find out.
Regarding the coin someone mentioned it had the number 12 (Roman letters?) on it. This would refer to Alain staying off the booze for 12 years and fits in with Sylvie saying it's been 20 years in 2014. So the coin belongs to or was to be given to Alain.
Ollie left the bar to go to the toilet, dropped his bag on the step on the way then was abducted. Vincent Bourg took him and then asked Garrett for help. The mayor arranged for someone in the gang to take him to Paris then release him. Sieg saw the mayor at the house and because he had previously been sent down by him (he was a judge then) he framed him with the coin he found in the garage. Throat slasher killed Ollie.
Monique turns up just when Tony and Emily seem to be getting back together again but her appearance ruins any chance of a reconciliation.
Alain knows his brother is involved and fears the worst for him.
OK, I've spotted a big clue which probably gives away the culprit/ending/motive. If you want to enjoy the final episode on Tuesday, please don't look at this spoiler.
All I will say outside the spoiler tags is that it's incredible that none of us spotted it before. The clue was there in plain sight with no attempt to hide it.
(If you want to discuss what's below, please keep it in spoiler tags so as not to spoil it for others.)
Episode 1, Scene 1. Tony speaks to a boy in the restaurant in Challons Du Bois (in 2014).
The man sitting next to the boy is............... Greg Halpern. Here is a side-by-side comparison of Greg and the man in the restaurant:
He's even wearing the same jumper! And nobody noticed until now!
The boy is credited at the end of Episode 1 as "Alex Duchamps" - the same boy who was kidnapped by his own father in 2009.
So I return to my earlier theory that after Alex was returned to his mother following his kidnap, she went ahead with her plan to take Alex abroad (the reason his father kidnapped him in the first place). With the help of a corrupt official, Alex's old identity was assigned to Ollie. Perhaps the real Alex was even given a new identity by the authorities to stop his father tracking him down. Therefore someone in authority (the Mayor?) knew that Ollie could safely assume Alex's old identity without there being any clash or duplication on any records.
So Greg is sitting there in the restaurant with Ollie. Greg is Ollie's father (or at least Greg believes he is).
The question that naturally follows from this is "why didn't Tony recognise Greg in the restaurant?"
Well, I think he did recognise him. And he recognised Ollie too. What we're seeing in Episode 1, Scene 1 is only one portion of the full scene. The scene will be revisited and concluded at the end of Episode 8. Watch it back, and an eerie calm descends over Tony's face. It looks like Tony is about to pounce and it's all going to kick off.
I guess that whatever money was paid to Greg in 2000 by Tony and Emily's father to buy his silence was the same money spent by Greg on paying various people to kidnap Ollie (Caid de Cite, the Mayor, or whoever).
One other observation: While sitting in the restaurant Greg is unfolding a map of Northern France, suggesting that he is unfamiliar with the area and is on his way to a particular destination. I wonder what has caused him to go to Challons with Ollie on a rainy evening in the winter? It's certainly not your average family holiday.
Tony knew Greg, apparently and would probably have recognised him.
The witness statement from Greg reads like that of someone of low intelligence "we seen him all the time" not someone who we've seen to be intelligent and articulate, ie someone who would state "we saw him all the time".
Something isn't right about the alleged assault, the 200* evidence that was received by Baptiste, the financial statements of 2000.
If such a complaint had reached a police station it is likely the Police would have pursued the complaint regardless of whether the complainant was bought off.
Baptiste a French officer received the UK police assault file before Mark a British officer received the financial statements. Mark would be able to subpoena that evidence fairly quickly for a case of this severity.
I know it has been mentioned before, but why is Greg Halpern's witness statement dated 2004? It's on the 'follow the evidence trail', but I was able to read it more clearly here:
OK, I've spotted a big clue which probably gives away the culprit/ending/motive. If you want to enjoy the final episode on Tuesday, please don't look at this spoiler.
All I will say outside the spoiler tags is that it's incredible that none of us spotted it before. The clue was there in plain sight with no attempt to hide it.
(If you want to discuss what's below, please keep it in spoiler tags so as not to spoil it for others.)
Episode 1, Scene 1. Tony speaks to a boy in the restaurant in Challons Du Bois (in 2014).
The man sitting next to the boy is............... Greg Halpern. Here is a side-by-side comparison of Greg and the man in the restaurant:
He's even wearing the same jumper! And nobody noticed until now!
The boy is credited at the end of Episode 1 as "Alex Duchamps" - the same boy who was kidnapped by his own father in 2009.
So I return to my earlier theory that after Alex was returned to his mother following his kidnap, she went ahead with her plan to take Alex abroad (the reason his father kidnapped him in the first place). With the help of a corrupt official, Alex's old identity was assigned to Ollie. Perhaps the real Alex was even given a new identity by the authorities to stop his father tracking him down. Therefore someone in authority (the Mayor?) knew that Ollie could safely assume Alex's old identity without there being any clash or duplication on any records.
So Greg is sitting there in the restaurant with Ollie. Greg is Ollie's father (or at least Greg believes he is).
The question that naturally follows from this is "why didn't Tony recognise Greg in the restaurant?"
Well, I think he did recognise him. And he recognised Ollie too. What we're seeing in Episode 1, Scene 1 is only one portion of the full scene. The scene will be revisited and concluded at the end of Episode 8. Watch it back, and an eerie calm descends over Tony's face. It looks like Tony is about to pounce and it's all going to kick off.
I guess that whatever money was paid to Greg in 2000 by Tony and Emily's father to buy his silence was the same money spent by Greg on paying various people to kidnap Ollie (Caid de Cite, the Mayor, or whoever).
One other observation: While sitting in the restaurant Greg is unfolding a map of Northern France, suggesting that he is unfamiliar with the area and is on his way to a particular destination. I wonder what has caused him to go to Challons with Ollie on a rainy evening in the winter? It's certainly not your average family holiday.
There's a damn close resemblance, I'll give you that. But, as others have pointed out, there are so many reasons why it just doesn't work as a theory.
my guess at this point is - Ollie saw something that day , something that would incriminate the gang or someone , they abducted him to keep him quiet until they could figure out what to do with him . But he ended up dead somehow , trying to escape maybe .
but I don't think its a paedophile ring
.
I agree with you. I think the explanation is going to be something much more mundane than paedophiles or drug trafficking. The intention was not to abduct Ollie but he was a witness to something tried to escape and died in the attempt. And his body is buried in that concrete foundation at Ian Garrett's house. I can't remember if it was all dug up when Baptiste went back and recovered Tony's shirt.
I know it has been mentioned before, but why is Greg Halpern's witness statement dated 2004? It's on the 'follow the evidence trail', but I was able to read it more clearly here:
I know it has been mentioned before, but why is Greg Halpern's witness statement dated 2004? It's on the 'follow the evidence trail', but I was able to read
It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I thought Tony beat him up?
That statement sounds like a teenager has given it-not a grown man. Very bizarre. Maybe he is a bit 'simple' which would suit his job as a porter. Not sure why Emily would be going round kissing someone who seems to lack intelligence...
Dear CubicEyes, this says it all so please may I copy it, print it and stick it on my wall? I love it
Absolutely, glad you like it so be my guest. Happy to please another forum member with Kernow connections, especially one who shares my taste in ideal heroes!
By the way, our voyage on the love boat with Detective Baptiste must of course take place in Paris, aboard a Bateau Mouche on the River Seine, which we shall charter especially for our (nefarious) purpose.
At intervals during our achingly romantic cruise beneath the stars and the lamplit bridges of Paris - tippling vintage champagne as we go - various of us overheated women will of course swoon and fall overboard.
And despite his missing leg, Julien will on each occasion dive heroically in and rescue us in his strong arms from a watery grave.
Does that sound okay, girls?
Ok I've added vintage champagne to the drinks order . I've read every single post on this thread (yes - I have no life !) and somebody must have got it right so we should have a prize giving on board - presented by our guest of honour Captain Baptiste:D
Whats the verdict on Davina's theory on ******* and ***** ******* ******** *********?
Different ******* ******* ********* ********* *************. ********** ************* ******* ******* *********. Hard to be 100% though.
This theory started out in spoilers, and I hadn't planned on looking behind them but now you have made it so clear what the theory was that I don't need to. Please be more careful in future; I really do prefer to work out my own theories, and if someone decides that their theory could be a spoiler, let's try to keep it that way!
I don't think this is a spoiler, just a comment on something else in the BBC's evidence trail. But spoilered in case anyone has not looked at the trail and prefers not to know:
And if Vincent Bourg has campylobacter, then isn't that 'just' food poisoning? Why would the doctor want to stop his treatment?
Comments
Yes, i agree, cant see any UK officer investigating any crime and taking his Son with him so he had to be on holiday, made contact for approval to help and investigate as he was there. not sure if Tony and Emily knew the liaison officer was a pretense but i assume everyone must in 2014 as Malak knows.
but I don't think its a paedophile ring
.
BIB 1 - Yes I think it is Alain and have done since Tony identified the coin. It seems that the trailers for this are often the very early part of the next episode. I suggest Alain is arrested very quickly. This will be a surprise for many as I suspect they think he is dead. He hasn't been seen at the hotel in 2014. The paedophile ring will start to unravel. The hotel will be investigated and the non-working television will be explained. etc. etc.
BIB 2 - As you say Mark has not been doing a liaison job. If you think back to the bloke in Broadchurch with the Latimers. Baptiste knows him or knows of him I suspect as he is so readily prepared to share key information of the case with him. I do think he is working for Interpol which would explain this. You have identified also that he is 'about' when key information is discussed and that finds it way back to the Romanian gang. They had to do a quick flit from the getaway point when the police arrived. Was Ollie in the woods?
There's an extension for Chrome called Hola Better Internet which allows you to change your location to the US, so you can watch the trailer. There may well be something similar for other browsers, or you can use a private proxy to hide that you're from the UK.
Regarding the scenes in the trailer:
Watching one of the scenes in the woods, I notice that the boy is filmed from behind and has different clothes to what Ollie was wearing when he disappeared. I have no idea what it means, but it looked like the boy was running towards someone he knew.
Personally I think the paedophile link is a red herring and Ollie wandered off from the bar, saw something he wasn't supposed to and was taken by criminals in panic. Ollie escapes from the house he is being held in, and goes into the woods. From there, who knows? Perhaps he just disappears and is never seen again. Perhaps he is killed by accident? It's been nearly impossible so far to second guess what's going to happen next, so I'm prepared for anything!
Tried this - still won't unblock it unfortunately.
It could but given that Tony will have identified Alain then the police will go looking for him and pull him in. All that scene shows is someone being captured by police. It will be the immediate next step.
Different man for me, check the sideburns. Also I think the jumpers might be different colours (slightly!). Hard to be 100% though.
Dear CubicEyes, this says it all so please may I copy it, print it and stick it on my wall? I love it
Aye, the stain from Vincent Bourgs 5th birthday cake candles, the 5th birthday. He spent the day or part of the day with Mary Garrett and something happened then, after the family photo was taken. I thought those were wax droppings, not ice cream. I think Mary trying to clean that stain is something to do with suspicion of Ian or Vincent.
The telephone code of his UK place is a Dartford code.
Does Bourg go into a 'Molly mode' in adult life? Believes he is Molly so much that anything he does as Bourg is blotted out.
Don't think it is the same guy (and definitely not the same jumper, different fit and style) There is no way that greg would not recognise Tony.
FWIW - I suggested that the boy was the 13yr old Ollie ages ago but can't really see how. Can't wait to find out.
I'm sure there are some formulaic vote-off programmes that run at a predictable repeatable pace that might take your fancy.
Ollie left the bar to go to the toilet, dropped his bag on the step on the way then was abducted. Vincent Bourg took him and then asked Garrett for help. The mayor arranged for someone in the gang to take him to Paris then release him. Sieg saw the mayor at the house and because he had previously been sent down by him (he was a judge then) he framed him with the coin he found in the garage. Throat slasher killed Ollie.
Monique turns up just when Tony and Emily seem to be getting back together again but her appearance ruins any chance of a reconciliation.
Alain knows his brother is involved and fears the worst for him.
Tony knew Greg, apparently and would probably have recognised him.
The witness statement from Greg reads like that of someone of low intelligence "we seen him all the time" not someone who we've seen to be intelligent and articulate, ie someone who would state "we saw him all the time".
Something isn't right about the alleged assault, the 200* evidence that was received by Baptiste, the financial statements of 2000.
If such a complaint had reached a police station it is likely the Police would have pursued the complaint regardless of whether the complainant was bought off.
Baptiste a French officer received the UK police assault file before Mark a British officer received the financial statements. Mark would be able to subpoena that evidence fairly quickly for a case of this severity.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheMissing_STZ/status/541396921576067072/photo/1
It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I thought Tony beat him up?
There's a damn close resemblance, I'll give you that. But, as others have pointed out, there are so many reasons why it just doesn't work as a theory.
I agree with you. I think the explanation is going to be something much more mundane than paedophiles or drug trafficking. The intention was not to abduct Ollie but he was a witness to something tried to escape and died in the attempt. And his body is buried in that concrete foundation at Ian Garrett's house. I can't remember if it was all dug up when Baptiste went back and recovered Tony's shirt.
That's a different one from the one on the BBC website.
That statement sounds like a teenager has given it-not a grown man. Very bizarre. Maybe he is a bit 'simple' which would suit his job as a porter. Not sure why Emily would be going round kissing someone who seems to lack intelligence...
Absolutely, glad you like it so be my guest. Happy to please another forum member with Kernow connections, especially one who shares my taste in ideal heroes!
Ok I've added vintage champagne to the drinks order
This theory started out in spoilers, and I hadn't planned on looking behind them but now you have made it so clear what the theory was that I don't need to. Please be more careful in future; I really do prefer to work out my own theories, and if someone decides that their theory could be a spoiler, let's try to keep it that way!