You don't have HD, or a HD box, so I personally wouldn't expect you to know.
I know more than you think.
All HD boxes have a scart on them. Why? I don't know. But they do.
All I can equate it to is - I had my Sky HD box on SD via a scart on a crt TV then got a HDMI lead to watch HD on my new HD TV.
I can understand it being on a Sky HD box as Sky are giving them out to people without HD, hoping that in the future they will get a HDTV and pay another tenner for HD channels.
But when people buy a HD box, they normally do so for HD content. Scart is dying (thank goodness) I seen a lot of T.V's in shops that only have one or none at all.
A little bit silly as lots of people still have older equipment. I still got a DVD recorder which uses scart and my PVr uses Scart
And the quality in picture jumped significantly.
I hope it did, if not then we may as well scrap HD now You should also have noticed a difference on SD channels as well, as the T.V will try and upscale it.
I am not sure, but I think I seen somewhere that Sky SD channels are not upscaled by the Sky box.
But you don't have HD, and so you are not in an informed position to comment.
I read a lot, I do have HD, I got a nice HD plasma T.V, I got a PS3 which plays HD disks. I don't have HD TV in say Sky HD, freesat HD or Freeview HD, you are correct.
But I know a bit about them, set up a nice HD Freesat box for a mate last week. A nice Humax, he put the dish up, he is better with drills than I am. I stuck the quad LNB on , use the sat finder to find the Satellite, the wired it all up.
I love soldering those F type plugs (not) i should have got some that don't need soldering
So now my mate got a nice HD freesat Humax in his living room and still have enough capacity on the LNB to put two more boxes or one more dual tuner sat box.
This is what he is going to do by all accounts, he is waiting for the You View freesat box and is going to get one, stick it downstairs and stick the Humax in their bedroom. So I will be doing some more connecting and it will give me a chance to see what You view is like before I decide if to get it or not.
You are, of course, free to post your comment, but it will not be an informed one.
1) To connect to a recorder to archiving recordings;
Can you archive Hd content? If I remember rightly you can't. due to DRM.
2) To feed a SCART based distribution system.
And how many people will do that these days?
Most people now will either get a second box if they have Freesat or Freeview or pay Sky a eaxtra tenner a month for multiview
Or they have a mixture
A couple of my mates used to have Scart distribution systems, but then they are pretty technical and would solder everything including the scart socket, I will not solder a scart, not because I don't know where anything goes, but because my hands are not steady enough these days
But now I don't think any of them is using them, they all got either a digital tuner T.V or a digital box in their other rooms.
Two of them got a wireless system to send the PVR from downstairs to their bedrooms so they can watch content from the PVR in bed.
Bad news, they could have the same problem as on digital did with people getting paid content for free.
What is means is that some clever spark can change the system to give you any paid content for free and do other clever things that the box was not meant to do.
Absolutely.
one example... a german cable system that used to use linux dboxes.... those went on to hack and break through Virgin media. thankfully that's stopped... for the time being until nagra3 is hacked. those boxes use linux neutrino.
My sat box runs enigma. it's an enthusiast box (I use it to get english translated polish EPg's - long story)
but I am aware of my box's capabilities.
thing is, if you use JUST the kernel then you don't have to give up the source code. but if you use most of it as GPL then you do.
Even sony deployed the best security system and it still got broken.
sorry to say but i can see images popping up giving access to paid content.
one example... a german cable system that used to use linux dboxes.... those went on to hack and break through Virgin media. thankfully that's stopped... for the time being until nagra3 is hacked. those boxes use linux neutrino.
My sat box runs enigma. it's an enthusiast box (I use it to get english translated polish EPg's - long story)
but I am aware of my box's capabilities.
thing is, if you use JUST the kernel then you don't have to give up the source code. but if you use most of it as GPL then you do.
Even sony deployed the best security system and it still got broken.
sorry to say but i can see images popping up giving access to paid content.
Not good at all then. I been thinking about going HD, broadcast wise and was considering waiting until you view is available just to see what it is like. But I now got third thoughts. I already had my second thoughts
I just came back from a mates place, we went to Currys and got a Humax Fox sat Hd box, i went with him as he wanted a bit of advice, his original plan was just to buy a normal PVR.
But ended up buying the humax, he don't have a HD T.V yet, so it is using scart (Now I know why they still keep scart) The other problem is one LNB on the dish, he have got a old analogue sky dish as well, so as a temp thing I hooked up both dishes to the box, the Sky digital dish is fine, but some channels will not work with the old Sky analogue dish, I was shocked it worked at all.
He is going to get someone around the corner from him who puts dishes up to put a quad LNB and run 3 cables down cables down, two for the Humax, and one for his old digital sky box, there are some channels on there that he can't get on Freesat, so he says. then the old analogue dish will get connected to the old analogue Sky box again.
Anyway, having looked again at the humax freesat PVr, a bit more closer this time than I did the last time I saw one it made me think about getting one and maybe not waiting for you View. the Humax is a nice box and is pretty responsive, I would need to put a dual LNB at least on my dish and get it aligned, not a problem. the only problem I have with Freesat is that Channel 4 Hd is not on it
So what do I do, wait until you view and have a look, but now worried about the Linux problem or get a humax Freesat box?
It looks like our choice of content access is going to go through the roof.
I wonder if the up-coming pricing re-structure for BB and BTV has anything to do with adding the Youview service?
i think it is because they are not getting the customers, so lower price to get more people.
think about it, how many people use BT broadband compared to how many of them have BTV?
We keep getting told on here by a certain person that if you got Bt broadband then BTV is a no brainer, well it seems like a lot of people don't think that way, other wise BTV would have a lot more Customers.
Bt could have done so much better with BTV, but it is just like B.T to muck it up. they come out with so great ideas, but they never get anywhere.
Well if what Stuntmaster says is true about you view, I suggest you stay clear.
What makes you so sure? just because Bt put the price down means nothing. Not everyone goes for something because it is cheap. Many people still have no idea what On demand means and they still not able to get their heads around the idea.
People are still used to turning on their T.V to watch something that is on at that time, it took years for people to start using their Sky+ box.
i just been to set up a Freesat PVr for someone, his wife is finding it difficult to understand how it can record with no tapes or disk and at the moment don't trust it. Still recording on VHs just to make sure it is recorded.
Also being able to just look at a guide and select what she wants to record is strange. She is not stupid, she is a trained staff nurse, but it is just technology, it scares some people.
On demand will eventually get there if we got the system to do it right. I think it took guts for BT to try BTV, they tried something and people was not ready and they are still not ready.
I am not fond of sky, but you got to admit the majority of people will go for Sky.
And how many people use BT BB compared to other service providers?
Which proves my point. BT is the largest ISp in this country and yet very few of their customers have BT TV service, now why do you think that is?
They have had plenty of advertising on T.V, Bt sends leaflets to their customers, I know because I had more than my fair share. they email their customers about BTV and even phone them up with offers, again I had my fair share.
So why do you think BTV have failed? It is not the prioce, because to be honest and I have said it before, the price is fine.
I don't want any silly comeback, i just want to know why you think it have not done very well.
The reasons why I think it have not done well.
Lack of content,
Lack of Hd, but that is only really starting to take off on Sky
The one problem was that you had to have Bt line rental ( that problem is solved now)
you need a pretty good broadband connection, even if you had just two megabits it would leave the rest of the house pretty short on bandwidth
Reliability, sure it is better now, but in the early days it was horrid, but people remember this
Sport, Sky have got it, simple as that, if you are a sport fan, certainly that horrid game called football then Sky have it and at a better price than BT.
Also Bt was too worried about subscriptions and did not concentrate on the one thing that separated Bt form Sky, you can pay for what you watch, not bother with a subscription.
I would have loved BTV to work out, more competition for sky and if lowering the price makes a difference then great, but I have my doubts.
In one curious post noise, you stated Sky sports costs more on Vision than getting it via Sky.
How do you work that out?
For me, on Sky, it cost -
£19 for the sky1 pack (which I never watched),
£26 for the sports pack.
£10 for the HD (because the SD picture is awful on a Sky HD box)
£45 A MTH, just to watch the sport. :eek:
On Vision - (and I've always had BT BB, so not relavent to my Vision costs)
I had Vision anyway, but I'll include the cost...
£12.50 Vision
£17 Sky sports
£29.50
Eeeee...it's like shelling peas.
But what you are forgetting is that with BTV you get two sport channels, with Sky you get 4 and you don't need HD, Sky picture quality in SD is fine. i watched some motor racing on Sky sport and it was fine, in fact it was better than I expected.
Normally with digital T.V, the grass is normally like flat and lifeless, but it looked ok when I seen it.
Also you can have any mix you want on sky, i must admit there are some mixes I would like., but i certainly would not pay for sport as most of it is football and i hate the game
i am not sticking up for Sky, but just trying to show you that they do offer better value if yo like sport.
right, a lad at work, gets on my nerves because he is football this, football that. He have sky sports, watches it all the time, all four channels, I don't think you would get someone like him to change to BTV.
i am not getting at one and ok so you like BTV it does you, but sadly it don't tick the boxes for most people. that is why it have failed.
i will also include broadband costs as well, since that will be added, otherwise it will not be fair and BT V will look expensive.
Sky
Broadband £12.50
sky sports 1,2,3 and 4 £20.25
one mix £19
£51.75
BT Vision
option 3 broadband, have to be option 3 as that is the closest to what Sky is offering
Difficult to work it out with Bt because there is no way of having a package to suit yourself.
That is without line rental, calls and stuff like that
i know you can get reduced rates with Bt if you have a package, but then they stick you in really long contracts and to be honest it is not that much cheaper and you still only got Sky sports 1 and 2.
you could go for lower broadband packs, but they don't compare to what Sky offers.
Set up fees on on top depending on what they charge at the time, sky have free setup if you got for certain packages, so do Bt.
i could get another few mixes from Sky before I get to Bt price, more choice again.
Sorry, but with sky you get more for your money, I am not saying it is better value as I don;t think any pay T.v is good value.
i will also include broadband costs as well, since that will be added, otherwise it will not be fair and BT V will look expensive.
Sky
Broadband £12.50
sky sports 1,2,3 and 4 £20.25
one mix £19
£51.75
BT Vision
option 3 broadband, have to be option 3 as that is the closest to what Sky is offering
Difficult to work it out with Bt because there is no way of having a package to suit yourself.
That is without line rental, calls and stuff like that
i know you can get reduced rates with Bt if you have a package, but then they stick you in really long contracts and to be honest it is not that much cheaper and you still only got Sky sports 1 and 2.
you could go for lower broadband packs, but they don't compare to what Sky offers.
Set up fees on on top depending on what they charge at the time, sky have free setup if you got for certain packages, so do Bt.
i could get another few mixes from Sky before I get to Bt price, more choice again.
Sorry, but with sky you get more for your money, I am not saying it is better value as I don;t think any pay T.v is good value.
You can always count on Noise to provide the most expensive comparison for BT Vision. Surely a fairer way is too look at the cheapest possible option for each provider.
So:
for a 24 month contract
£27.99 for broadband option 2 + bronze pack
£11.99 for Sky 1 & 2
= £39.98
as opposed to Noise's own calculations for Sky of £51.75
You can always count on Noise to provide the most expensive comparison for BT Vision. Surely a fairer way is too look at the cheapest possible option for each provider.
So:
for a 24 month contract
£27.99 for broadband option 2 + bronze pack
£11.99 for Sky 1 & 2
= £39.98
as opposed to Noise's own calculations for Sky of £51.75
Seems pretty clear to me.
not like for like.
Bt broadband option two is pretty limited on data, sky broadband is unlimited, which is why I went for BT broadband option 3, because it is as close to unlimited as Bt gets.
i went for the bronze pack, because it is the lowest subscription as a package you can go for with Bt Vision
Sky is a bit more for Sky sports, but you do get 4 channels.
24 month contract is the biggie, sky is 12 months, that is long enough but 24 months is a long time and a lot of things can happen in 24 months.
You know, I've never actually looked at the grass, I'm usually too busy watching the game
so why is it that Sky or for that matter any other broadcaster is bothering with HD?
i don't watch football, but I was on about motor racing and I do notice these things. On normal freeview BBc one when I am watching the grand prix, i notice where there is real grass, that it looks false.
Never had that on analogue
I've been scracthing my head as to how the Vision box can provide the massive leap in technology required to supply the Youview service.
It can't, saying that, someone on these forums did say that the BTV box can cope with you view, but now looking at the you view specs, I don't think it can.
"The operator has already revealed that current Vision customers can expect an upgrade to support the new YouView technology".
Nice.
Now we'll just have to wait and see what the HD box costs.
That is the thing, even if Bt gives it away for nothing, you can bet your bottom dollar than they are going to lock people into a long contract.
i know humax is involved with You view and i do like humax boxes, so i will wait for a few months before deciding what to do.
That is to go HD, with Freeview or Freesat, bother with you view or just get a normal Hd PVr or just stay as I am with my Sd PVR.
i got ample of bandwidth on my broadband to cope with a You view box if I did decide to go that way.
So that article is saying a new stb will be required to take youview, which BT may offer customer possibly for free if they sign a new deal?
I like the sound of YouTube being available. My channel could be up there with the likes of itv. Cool.
Comments
Can you archive Hd content? If I remember rightly you can't. due to DRM.
And how many people will do that these days?
Most people now will either get a second box if they have Freesat or Freeview or pay Sky a eaxtra tenner a month for multiview
Or they have a mixture
A couple of my mates used to have Scart distribution systems, but then they are pretty technical and would solder everything including the scart socket, I will not solder a scart, not because I don't know where anything goes, but because my hands are not steady enough these days
But now I don't think any of them is using them, they all got either a digital tuner T.V or a digital box in their other rooms.
Two of them got a wireless system to send the PVR from downstairs to their bedrooms so they can watch content from the PVR in bed.
Absolutely.
one example... a german cable system that used to use linux dboxes.... those went on to hack and break through Virgin media. thankfully that's stopped... for the time being until nagra3 is hacked. those boxes use linux neutrino.
My sat box runs enigma. it's an enthusiast box (I use it to get english translated polish EPg's - long story)
but I am aware of my box's capabilities.
thing is, if you use JUST the kernel then you don't have to give up the source code. but if you use most of it as GPL then you do.
Even sony deployed the best security system and it still got broken.
sorry to say but i can see images popping up giving access to paid content.
It looks like our choice of content access is going to go through the roof.
I wonder if the up-coming pricing re-structure for BB and BTV has anything to do with adding the Youview service?
Not good at all then. I been thinking about going HD, broadcast wise and was considering waiting until you view is available just to see what it is like. But I now got third thoughts. I already had my second thoughts
I just came back from a mates place, we went to Currys and got a Humax Fox sat Hd box, i went with him as he wanted a bit of advice, his original plan was just to buy a normal PVR.
But ended up buying the humax, he don't have a HD T.V yet, so it is using scart (Now I know why they still keep scart) The other problem is one LNB on the dish, he have got a old analogue sky dish as well, so as a temp thing I hooked up both dishes to the box, the Sky digital dish is fine, but some channels will not work with the old Sky analogue dish, I was shocked it worked at all.
He is going to get someone around the corner from him who puts dishes up to put a quad LNB and run 3 cables down cables down, two for the Humax, and one for his old digital sky box, there are some channels on there that he can't get on Freesat, so he says. then the old analogue dish will get connected to the old analogue Sky box again.
Anyway, having looked again at the humax freesat PVr, a bit more closer this time than I did the last time I saw one it made me think about getting one and maybe not waiting for you View. the Humax is a nice box and is pretty responsive, I would need to put a dual LNB at least on my dish and get it aligned, not a problem. the only problem I have with Freesat is that Channel 4 Hd is not on it
So what do I do, wait until you view and have a look, but now worried about the Linux problem or get a humax Freesat box?
i think it is because they are not getting the customers, so lower price to get more people.
think about it, how many people use BT broadband compared to how many of them have BTV?
We keep getting told on here by a certain person that if you got Bt broadband then BTV is a no brainer, well it seems like a lot of people don't think that way, other wise BTV would have a lot more Customers.
Bt could have done so much better with BTV, but it is just like B.T to muck it up. they come out with so great ideas, but they never get anywhere.
Well if what Stuntmaster says is true about you view, I suggest you stay clear.
But not for much longer.
And how many people use BT BB compared to other service providers?
In one curious post noise, you stated Sky sports costs more on Vision than getting it via Sky.
How do you work that out?
For me, on Sky, it cost -
£19 for the sky1 pack (which I never watched),
£26 for the sports pack.
£10 for the HD (because the SD picture is awful on a Sky HD box)
£45 A MTH, just to watch the sport. :eek:
On Vision - (and I've always had BT BB, so not relavent to my Vision costs)
I had Vision anyway, but I'll include the cost...
£12.50 Vision
£17 Sky sports
£29.50
Eeeee...it's like shelling peas.
You consider them to be technical because they can use simple plug and play systems?
What makes you so sure? just because Bt put the price down means nothing. Not everyone goes for something because it is cheap. Many people still have no idea what On demand means and they still not able to get their heads around the idea.
People are still used to turning on their T.V to watch something that is on at that time, it took years for people to start using their Sky+ box.
i just been to set up a Freesat PVr for someone, his wife is finding it difficult to understand how it can record with no tapes or disk and at the moment don't trust it. Still recording on VHs just to make sure it is recorded.
Also being able to just look at a guide and select what she wants to record is strange. She is not stupid, she is a trained staff nurse, but it is just technology, it scares some people.
On demand will eventually get there if we got the system to do it right. I think it took guts for BT to try BTV, they tried something and people was not ready and they are still not ready.
I am not fond of sky, but you got to admit the majority of people will go for Sky.
Which proves my point. BT is the largest ISp in this country and yet very few of their customers have BT TV service, now why do you think that is?
They have had plenty of advertising on T.V, Bt sends leaflets to their customers, I know because I had more than my fair share. they email their customers about BTV and even phone them up with offers, again I had my fair share.
So why do you think BTV have failed? It is not the prioce, because to be honest and I have said it before, the price is fine.
I don't want any silly comeback, i just want to know why you think it have not done very well.
The reasons why I think it have not done well.
Lack of content,
Lack of Hd, but that is only really starting to take off on Sky
The one problem was that you had to have Bt line rental ( that problem is solved now)
you need a pretty good broadband connection, even if you had just two megabits it would leave the rest of the house pretty short on bandwidth
Reliability, sure it is better now, but in the early days it was horrid, but people remember this
Sport, Sky have got it, simple as that, if you are a sport fan, certainly that horrid game called football then Sky have it and at a better price than BT.
Also Bt was too worried about subscriptions and did not concentrate on the one thing that separated Bt form Sky, you can pay for what you watch, not bother with a subscription.
I would have loved BTV to work out, more competition for sky and if lowering the price makes a difference then great, but I have my doubts.
But what you are forgetting is that with BTV you get two sport channels, with Sky you get 4 and you don't need HD, Sky picture quality in SD is fine. i watched some motor racing on Sky sport and it was fine, in fact it was better than I expected.
Normally with digital T.V, the grass is normally like flat and lifeless, but it looked ok when I seen it.
Also you can have any mix you want on sky, i must admit there are some mixes I would like., but i certainly would not pay for sport as most of it is football and i hate the game
i am not sticking up for Sky, but just trying to show you that they do offer better value if yo like sport.
right, a lad at work, gets on my nerves because he is football this, football that. He have sky sports, watches it all the time, all four channels, I don't think you would get someone like him to change to BTV.
i am not getting at one and ok so you like BTV it does you, but sadly it don't tick the boxes for most people. that is why it have failed.
No silly comebacks, this is a serious debate...
Please give a breakdown of Sky sports costs on -
Getting it via Vision, or getting it via Sky.
May as well just record in normal SD then and save space.
I don't think i said that.
I said they was technical and what they had was not just plug and play, there was a lot of wiring and soldering done.
One of them made his one ZX80 when he was 12, a bit younger than me. i could not do that now never mind when i was 12.
anyway, I did not say they was technical because they had a scart distribution system.
i will also include broadband costs as well, since that will be added, otherwise it will not be fair and BT V will look expensive.
Sky
Broadband £12.50
sky sports 1,2,3 and 4 £20.25
one mix £19
£51.75
BT Vision
option 3 broadband, have to be option 3 as that is the closest to what Sky is offering
Difficult to work it out with Bt because there is no way of having a package to suit yourself.
Option 3 broadband £24.99
BT vision bronze pack lowest package £14.99
sky sports 1 and 2 £16.99
£56.97
That is without line rental, calls and stuff like that
i know you can get reduced rates with Bt if you have a package, but then they stick you in really long contracts and to be honest it is not that much cheaper and you still only got Sky sports 1 and 2.
you could go for lower broadband packs, but they don't compare to what Sky offers.
Set up fees on on top depending on what they charge at the time, sky have free setup if you got for certain packages, so do Bt.
i could get another few mixes from Sky before I get to Bt price, more choice again.
Sorry, but with sky you get more for your money, I am not saying it is better value as I don;t think any pay T.v is good value.
You can always count on Noise to provide the most expensive comparison for BT Vision. Surely a fairer way is too look at the cheapest possible option for each provider.
So:
for a 24 month contract
£27.99 for broadband option 2 + bronze pack
£11.99 for Sky 1 & 2
= £39.98
as opposed to Noise's own calculations for Sky of £51.75
Seems pretty clear to me.
You know, I've never actually looked at the grass, I'm usually too busy watching the game
You mean there is a game played on grass?
And it's on the telly? :eek:
Ha ha.
Bt broadband option two is pretty limited on data, sky broadband is unlimited, which is why I went for BT broadband option 3, because it is as close to unlimited as Bt gets.
i went for the bronze pack, because it is the lowest subscription as a package you can go for with Bt Vision
Sky is a bit more for Sky sports, but you do get 4 channels.
24 month contract is the biggie, sky is 12 months, that is long enough but 24 months is a long time and a lot of things can happen in 24 months.
so why is it that Sky or for that matter any other broadcaster is bothering with HD?
i don't watch football, but I was on about motor racing and I do notice these things. On normal freeview BBc one when I am watching the grand prix, i notice where there is real grass, that it looks false.
Never had that on analogue
Back to thread topic...
I've been scracthing my head as to how the Vision box can provide the massive leap in technology required to supply the Youview service.
And this link points the way...
http://www.worldtvpc.com/blog/bt-plans-bundle-youview-boxes-bt-broadband/
"The operator has already revealed that current Vision customers can expect an upgrade to support the new YouView technology".
Nice.
Now we'll just have to wait and see what the HD box costs.
It can't, saying that, someone on these forums did say that the BTV box can cope with you view, but now looking at the you view specs, I don't think it can.
That is the thing, even if Bt gives it away for nothing, you can bet your bottom dollar than they are going to lock people into a long contract.
i know humax is involved with You view and i do like humax boxes, so i will wait for a few months before deciding what to do.
That is to go HD, with Freeview or Freesat, bother with you view or just get a normal Hd PVr or just stay as I am with my Sd PVR.
i got ample of bandwidth on my broadband to cope with a You view box if I did decide to go that way.
So that article is saying a new stb will be required to take youview, which BT may offer customer possibly for free if they sign a new deal?
I like the sound of YouTube being available. My channel could be up there with the likes of itv. Cool.
But they will now.
And it's Freeview the service will be launched on. Not Freesat (and thats from Humax, not me).
And I too have only heard only good things about Humax boxes.
I may consider getting one of them to get my future Vision and Youview service, dependant upon what happens with our package prices.