There's a lot of pointless speculation at times, but in this case I think there are serious problems, not least Jose's refusal to criticise a way off form Ivanovic who is leaking goals like a sieve.
If they cannot beat a poor Villa side at home, with all of the talent at his disposal, then things really will be in bad shape there, and he will be under severe pressure.
The problem with Mourinho is that whenever the chips are down and he has a challenge to overcome he never overcomes it. Instead it's complete meltdown, falling out with players, staff and club management; picking fights with the referees and the football associations and generally exacerbating a situation not resolving it, then he leaves.
Yes he's a great manager but I don't think he's ever overcome adversity. He usually (at least partially) creates it, then p*sses off. For me it's his biggest flaw. He can come in and win medals for a couple of years, and I'm not knocking that, but he seems to struggle when asked to do more or when faced with a situation where he has problems to solve within a club and often seems to cause more problems than he's ever solved.
The problem with Mourinho is that whenever the chips are down and he has a challenge to overcome he never overcomes it. Instead it's complete meltdown, falling out with players, staff and club management; picking fights with the referees and the football associations and generally exacerbating a situation not resolving it, then he leaves.
Yes he's a great manager but I don't think he's ever overcome adversity. He usually (at least partially) creates it, then p*sses off. For me it's his biggest flaw. He can come in and win medals for a couple of years, and I'm not knocking that, but he seems to struggle when asked to do more or when faced with a situation where he has problems to solve within a club and often seems to cause more problems than he's ever solved.
Exactly, and for me that is why he is not up there with the very best managers, when the going gets gets tough, he leaves.
The best managers find a way through that tough period, and come out the other side still successful.
Exactly, and for me that is why he is not up there with the very best managers, when the going gets gets tough, he leaves.
The best managers find a way through that tough period, and come out the other side still successful.
I look forward to hearing your list of managers who have done this - please post them in the forum.
(Especially ones with a trophy cabinet as full as JMs, in the same time frame.)
I look forward to hearing your list of managers who have done this - please post them in the forum.
(Especially ones with a trophy cabinet as full as JMs, in the same time frame.)
so you want to have a list of managers who have been at a club for a while and overcome adversity over a number of years who continued to be successful after in a short period?
You probably need to think about that question again.
I was not talking about managers who did this at a single club, but over time at various us in their career.
Yes José's C.V. is full of medals, and congratulations to him on that, they cannot be taken away from him.
What this is about is fighting back from adversity, coming out of a tricky patch, and doing well afterwards.
Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby, Brian Clough, all did this (off of the top of my head, I am sure if I sat down and thought about this more would come to my mind).
For me it's not so much the fact he's never rebuilt teams, modern-day football management isn't really conducive to that any longer. It's more to do with the fact that rather than solve problems he seems to more often than not he seems to create them.
When results are poor and you look to the manager to turn things around and you find out he's the one responsible for more chaos than anyone, I don't think that's good.
I'm not saying there's no truth in the rumours, but I'm always suspicious when someone is pushing a new book. Does him no harm to be in the headlines again.
I actually don't know what to think about Mourinho's response to the FA. He was talking nonsense about Refs being scared to award Chelsea anything etc, but I also despise the FA with a vengeance.
I'm not saying there's no truth in the rumours, but I'm always suspicious when someone is pushing a new book. Does him no harm to be in the headlines again.
I actually don't know what to think about Mourinho's response to the FA. He was talking nonsense about Refs being scared to award Chelsea anything etc, but I also despise the FA with a vengeance.
It's pretty obvious that all the fuss he's making about officials and the FA is to grab headlines and sell books. What's the betting that if he fails to win tomorrow, he'll do it again?
It's so transparent that I can't even get worked up about him any more, though I do think he should be just getting on with the job and not pushing his personal money-making project to the possible detriment of his team.
Drogba is an interesting signing for Chelsea. He was relatively unknown at the time but signed for a HUGE fee. In his first few games he was monstering defenders and i thought we had signed a fantastic player. Then he disappeared!
His PL goals are 10, 12, 20, 8, 5, 29, 11, 5
In actual fact, he only had two outstanding seasons, 2006/7 and 2009/10
Some very good points CB, respect, but on Drogba.. Imo he is up there with the best strikers that have ever played in the PL. A lot of his work went unnoticed. His tireless defending at corners, the massive trouble he caused defenders, opening up space for Lampard to pop up and score a lot of goals. That is selfless team play, and imo he was fantastic at that. He also scored some brilliant goals in finals. FA cup and of course CL. That is handling huge pressure.
When it comes to Chelsea's lack of bargain players coming through, I think the owner should be looking at the youth scouting system and making BIG changes. I'd just copy what Southampton and Everton are doing. Where is Chelsea's Bale, Walcott, Ramsey, Kane, Sterling, Barkley, Stones, Rooney, Wilshere, ete, etc.?! For all the investment in youth, there is something seriously wrong at the club.
I dont think Mourinho is happy and when Mourinho is unhappy things go wrong very very quickly.
I believe he didn't really want to go back to Chelsea and to be honest I think going back as a manager is almost always a mistake. Despite his comments to the contrary nothing will dissuade me from the opinion that he was desperate for the Man Utd job and was gutted when it didn't happen. *
* This is NOT me getting into a "who is the best club" debate or anything like that. Chelsea are massive I'm not arguing that, I just think he really fancied a crack at succeeding Ferguson.
The thing that I can't shake is that he left Chelsea the first time under a massive cloud and when he returned nothing had really changed. The owner was still the same character and Mourinho was still the same so the truce seemed to be an incredibly unease one. At the time you feel that they both needed each other. Abramovich wanted Guardiola and couldn't get him while Mourinho wanted United and couldn't go there. I think both were in limbo and made up for the greater good.
The lack of spending in the summer was bizarre and suggested something was amiss. I dont know what it meant but it was odd. I like Mourinho and I'd like to see him turn it around but there almost seems to be an inevitable ending to this. Its almost as if he is using and pushing for the sake of it to force someones hand to say "enough".
If Chelsea and José do part company with each other, then it will be interesting to see which direction they go down, as to me as purely an ousider looking in, it seems that they are stuck in a circle, they have gone back once to José, would they go back again to Carlo??
Personally, I think that they would be best making a clean break, and going for someone, say like Simeone, who does not have a history with the club, and can look at things with fresh eyes.
I am never a fan of going backwards to try and move forwards, so I don't think a club should ever re-hire someone as a manager once their time has come and gone.
He won't walk because his ego will tell him that he will still tun it around. Every manager would be the same. Few will have as good a chance of being proved right as he does.
I'd doubt he's bothered about not getting a pay off and the equivalent of a years salary.
I dont think Mourinho is happy and when Mourinho is unhappy things go wrong very very quickly.
I believe he didn't really want to go back to Chelsea and to be honest I think going back as a manager is almost always a mistake. Despite his comments to the contrary nothing will dissuade me from the opinion that he was desperate for the Man Utd job and was gutted when it didn't happen. *
* This is NOT me getting into a "who is the best club" debate or anything like that. Chelsea are massive I'm not arguing that, I just think he really fancied a crack at succeeding Ferguson.
The thing that I can't shake is that he left Chelsea the first time under a massive cloud and when he returned nothing had really changed. The owner was still the same character and Mourinho was still the same so the truce seemed to be an incredibly unease one. At the time you feel that they both needed each other. Abramovich wanted Guardiola and couldn't get him while Mourinho wanted United and couldn't go there. I think both were in limbo and made up for the greater good.
The lack of spending in the summer was bizarre and suggested something was amiss. I dont know what it meant but it was odd. I like Mourinho and I'd like to see him turn it around but there almost seems to be an inevitable ending to this. Its almost as if he is using and pushing for the sake of it to force someones hand to say "enough".
I agree (again) Eddie, one more and you've got yourself a hat trick. :cool:
Just a shame he had tactical nightmares every so often. He had the opportunity to be a lifetime legend and failed miserably when the crunch came.
What, do you mean by only coming second in the PL to Arsenal's "invincibles"? Hardly a miserable failure. It was clear from the outset that Abramovich wanted to bring in a new manager whatever Ranieri achieved. I thought Ranieri was treated appallingly. I'm really pleased he's having success in the PL again with Leicester.
Meanwhile, back on topic:
Chelsea would be mad to sack Mourinho. Who would they replace him with? Perhaps they could ask Ancelotti back but no one else of such quality would take this job, Brendan Rodgers is available though. It's not really Mourinho's fault that key players aren't firing on all cylinders this season. But as the saying goes, form is temporary class is permanent and it will get turned around.
Maybe John Terry not being a regular starter is affecting his relationship with the rest of the dressing room. Terry is such a strong leader and if he's frozen out that could affect some others.
Where he's really lost the plot is that his ranting to the press and media is no longer working its magic with the players. He does it to deflect the flak from them when they don't perform but he's fighting illogical battles now. His unjustified outburst over the Chelsea medical staff started it and his latest rant about referees being afraid to award Chelsea penalties was ludicrous. If you are going to mouth off at least make sure who aren't totally in fantasyland first.
First it was Mata, one of Chelsea's best, most committed players ever, and now Hazard..
I'm all for building from the back and think that kamikaze style attacking football (Kevin Keegan style?) does not win trophies, but can the defensive mentality go too far?
'Some call him the second Juan Mata – I prefer to think of him as the third Joe Cole – but with a few choice words on Saturday, Jose Mourinho appeared to fire the starting pistol on the beginning of the end for Eden Hazard at Chelsea.
Mata himself, who knows a thing or two about this scenario, seemed clear on his own view when he spoke about the matter prior to the weekend's fixtures.
“If a luxury player is a player who scores and assists and has good stats – then I’m happy to be a luxury player,” he told The Times.
“I’ve scored as many goals for Manchester United in the Premier League as for Chelsea, but in something like 30 games less.
“When you lose, a certain kind of player – the creative players – always get the blame.”
Without explicitly naming Mourinho, the Spaniard seemed to be pointing the finger in only one possible direction (it was Mourinho who first applied the 'luxury' tag to Mata, on his departure from Stamford Bridge).
But Hazard is a very different case to Mata, and to Cole before him, because Hazard is supposed to be Mourinho's man.
While Cole and Mata were inherited from other managers (Ranieri and Villas-Boas), and acquired that 'luxury' status early in their relationship with Mourinho, Hazard is far more central to Chelsea's plans.
Though not his buy (he was a Michael Emenalo purchase), the central status Hazard earned in Mourinho's team elevated him to that rarest of levels: 'untouchable'.
Until now.'
As stated at the start of the summer, I was all for buying Sterling and relieving some pressure from Hazard, but no, Mourhino said he was happy with his squad, and that Oscar could become another Hazard (!!!)
If Hazard was ever up for sale I'd be on that. My favourite player in the league of the last 3 years. Okay he's out of form now but he's absolute class.
Comments
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/revealed-jose-mourinho-facing-mutiny-at-chelsea-as-players-turn-against-him-a3091181.html
There's a lot of pointless speculation at times, but in this case I think there are serious problems, not least Jose's refusal to criticise a way off form Ivanovic who is leaking goals like a sieve.
If they cannot beat a poor Villa side at home, with all of the talent at his disposal, then things really will be in bad shape there, and he will be under severe pressure.
Yes he's a great manager but I don't think he's ever overcome adversity. He usually (at least partially) creates it, then p*sses off. For me it's his biggest flaw. He can come in and win medals for a couple of years, and I'm not knocking that, but he seems to struggle when asked to do more or when faced with a situation where he has problems to solve within a club and often seems to cause more problems than he's ever solved.
Exactly, and for me that is why he is not up there with the very best managers, when the going gets gets tough, he leaves.
The best managers find a way through that tough period, and come out the other side still successful.
I look forward to hearing your list of managers who have done this - please post them in the forum.
(Especially ones with a trophy cabinet as full as JMs, in the same time frame.)
so you want to have a list of managers who have been at a club for a while and overcome adversity over a number of years who continued to be successful after in a short period?
You probably need to think about that question again.
Yes José's C.V. is full of medals, and congratulations to him on that, they cannot be taken away from him.
What this is about is fighting back from adversity, coming out of a tricky patch, and doing well afterwards.
Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby, Brian Clough, all did this (off of the top of my head, I am sure if I sat down and thought about this more would come to my mind).
When results are poor and you look to the manager to turn things around and you find out he's the one responsible for more chaos than anyone, I don't think that's good.
It's the rumours about the dressing room unrest that's his biggest problem now rather than what is happening on the pitch.
If the results improve then the noises might subside until the next time.
He's burnt so many bridges though.
I actually don't know what to think about Mourinho's response to the FA. He was talking nonsense about Refs being scared to award Chelsea anything etc, but I also despise the FA with a vengeance.
It's pretty obvious that all the fuss he's making about officials and the FA is to grab headlines and sell books. What's the betting that if he fails to win tomorrow, he'll do it again?
It's so transparent that I can't even get worked up about him any more, though I do think he should be just getting on with the job and not pushing his personal money-making project to the possible detriment of his team.
Some very good points CB, respect, but on Drogba.. Imo he is up there with the best strikers that have ever played in the PL. A lot of his work went unnoticed. His tireless defending at corners, the massive trouble he caused defenders, opening up space for Lampard to pop up and score a lot of goals. That is selfless team play, and imo he was fantastic at that. He also scored some brilliant goals in finals. FA cup and of course CL. That is handling huge pressure.
When it comes to Chelsea's lack of bargain players coming through, I think the owner should be looking at the youth scouting system and making BIG changes. I'd just copy what Southampton and Everton are doing. Where is Chelsea's Bale, Walcott, Ramsey, Kane, Sterling, Barkley, Stones, Rooney, Wilshere, ete, etc.?! For all the investment in youth, there is something seriously wrong at the club.
I believe he didn't really want to go back to Chelsea and to be honest I think going back as a manager is almost always a mistake. Despite his comments to the contrary nothing will dissuade me from the opinion that he was desperate for the Man Utd job and was gutted when it didn't happen. *
* This is NOT me getting into a "who is the best club" debate or anything like that. Chelsea are massive I'm not arguing that, I just think he really fancied a crack at succeeding Ferguson.
The thing that I can't shake is that he left Chelsea the first time under a massive cloud and when he returned nothing had really changed. The owner was still the same character and Mourinho was still the same so the truce seemed to be an incredibly unease one. At the time you feel that they both needed each other. Abramovich wanted Guardiola and couldn't get him while Mourinho wanted United and couldn't go there. I think both were in limbo and made up for the greater good.
The lack of spending in the summer was bizarre and suggested something was amiss. I dont know what it meant but it was odd. I like Mourinho and I'd like to see him turn it around but there almost seems to be an inevitable ending to this. Its almost as if he is using and pushing for the sake of it to force someones hand to say "enough".
Personally, I think that they would be best making a clean break, and going for someone, say like Simeone, who does not have a history with the club, and can look at things with fresh eyes.
I am never a fan of going backwards to try and move forwards, so I don't think a club should ever re-hire someone as a manager once their time has come and gone.
Its like im seeing double
Today is a massive game for him and Sherwood
I'd doubt he's bothered about not getting a pay off and the equivalent of a years salary.
I agree (again) Eddie, one more and you've got yourself a hat trick. :cool:
you guys have a couple of bad months and you are calling for your manager`s head?
wow!
LOL ta!
Meanwhile, back on topic:
Chelsea would be mad to sack Mourinho. Who would they replace him with? Perhaps they could ask Ancelotti back but no one else of such quality would take this job, Brendan Rodgers is available though.
Maybe John Terry not being a regular starter is affecting his relationship with the rest of the dressing room. Terry is such a strong leader and if he's frozen out that could affect some others.
Where he's really lost the plot is that his ranting to the press and media is no longer working its magic with the players. He does it to deflect the flak from them when they don't perform but he's fighting illogical battles now. His unjustified outburst over the Chelsea medical staff started it and his latest rant about referees being afraid to award Chelsea penalties was ludicrous. If you are going to mouth off at least make sure who aren't totally in fantasyland first.
I'm all for building from the back and think that kamikaze style attacking football (Kevin Keegan style?) does not win trophies, but can the defensive mentality go too far?
'Some call him the second Juan Mata – I prefer to think of him as the third Joe Cole – but with a few choice words on Saturday, Jose Mourinho appeared to fire the starting pistol on the beginning of the end for Eden Hazard at Chelsea.
Mata himself, who knows a thing or two about this scenario, seemed clear on his own view when he spoke about the matter prior to the weekend's fixtures.
“If a luxury player is a player who scores and assists and has good stats – then I’m happy to be a luxury player,” he told The Times.
“I’ve scored as many goals for Manchester United in the Premier League as for Chelsea, but in something like 30 games less.
“When you lose, a certain kind of player – the creative players – always get the blame.”
Without explicitly naming Mourinho, the Spaniard seemed to be pointing the finger in only one possible direction (it was Mourinho who first applied the 'luxury' tag to Mata, on his departure from Stamford Bridge).
But Hazard is a very different case to Mata, and to Cole before him, because Hazard is supposed to be Mourinho's man.
While Cole and Mata were inherited from other managers (Ranieri and Villas-Boas), and acquired that 'luxury' status early in their relationship with Mourinho, Hazard is far more central to Chelsea's plans.
Though not his buy (he was a Michael Emenalo purchase), the central status Hazard earned in Mourinho's team elevated him to that rarest of levels: 'untouchable'.
Until now.'
As stated at the start of the summer, I was all for buying Sterling and relieving some pressure from Hazard, but no, Mourhino said he was happy with his squad, and that Oscar could become another Hazard (!!!)