Only Fools creator blasts modern comedy

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  • smile371smile371 Posts: 10,202
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    I think he could be looking through things with rose tinted glasses; i think it's down to the fact that it is only the good shows from the last 30 years, where in fact there was also alot of crap, it just simply isn't remembered. I can imagine it will be the same in twenty years time, everyone will say how great comedy is now due to shows like Outnumbered, Gavin and Stacey and Peep Show, while no-one will remember shows like After You've Gone and Life Of Riley.
  • jamespondojamespondo Posts: 6,040
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Its also interesting that people are now starting to question OFAH on various levels. Its the most popular sitcom ever and was a huge national favourite in ways that Peep Show, Alan Partridge, IT Crowd and all the other post watershed shows will never be.

    Nobody can doubt it's ratings success,and I certainly enjoyed it,but I know people who don't.Some people just didn't take to the Delboy character.

    John complains about "lazy writing" and he does have a point,but he certainly used a lot of the exact same dialogue,ideas and general format that Minder used.

    Also worth noting that Only Fools came out,and flourished,at a time when there were only 4 channels.Every sitcom that has been produced during the past decade is having to compete with freeview,sky and the internet.


    The BBC doesn't help by insisting on spending a substantial slice of it's comedy budget on another series of LOTSW (which struggles to pull 4 million viewers) and more My Family (5 million viewers + it's actors say it's sh*t).That could have funded something like a modern Seven of One.
  • mad_dudemad_dude Posts: 10,670
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    I think Peep Show has a very strong narrative and very subtle comedy in some aspects it is better than OFAH and in other aspects it isnt. If John Sullivan was 20 years younger he would appreciate Peep Show just like someone who was 20 years older in 1981 may not have appreciated only fools and horses.
  • ItsNickItsNick Posts: 3,711
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Its also interesting that people are now starting to question OFAH on various levels. Its the most popular sitcom ever and was a huge national favourite in ways that Peep Show, Alan Partridge, IT Crowd and all the other post watershed shows will never be.
    Exactly.
  • mad_dudemad_dude Posts: 10,670
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    Its also interesting that people are now starting to question OFAH on various levels. Its the most popular sitcom ever and was a huge national favourite in ways that Peep Show, Alan Partridge, IT Crowd and all the other post watershed shows will never be.

    OFAH made during a period of 4 channels
    Peep Show During a period of 525 different channels this might have something to do with it.
  • Ghost WorldGhost World Posts: 7,036
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    For me, like it seems to him, swear words just dont make me laugh.
    Some shows (and some comedians) are guilty of saying "f*ck" to get a cheap laugh, but for the most part it's just writers reflecting the way people speak in real life. Some people seem to have a real problem with it, for some reason.
    Chris1964 wrote: »
    The seventies produced some of the finest comedy ever, Porridge (for me the best sitcom ever) , Fawlty Towers, Rising Damp, Reginald Perrin, Open all Hours. For me, the addition of f words to the scripts would just destroy them.
    And the Noughties produced The Office, Peep Show, Phoenix Nights, Spaced (well, half of it), Black Books, The Armando Iannucci Shows, Extras, Nighty Night, Outnumbered, Absolute Power, The Thick of It, Gavin and Stacey, Green Wing, The Mighty Boosh, Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, The Inbetweeners, Lead Balloon, Marion & Geoff - many of which will be thought of just as fondly in 30 years time.
    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Its also interesting that people are now starting to question OFAH on various levels. Its the most popular sitcom ever and was a huge national favourite in ways that Peep Show, Alan Partridge, IT Crowd and all the other post watershed shows will never be.
    But popularity has nothing to do with quality. 30 million people watched Dirty Den divorce Angie, does that mean Eastenders is better than Edge of Darkness?
  • Chris1964Chris1964 Posts: 19,736
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    mad_dude wrote: »
    OFAH made during a period of 4 channels
    Peep Show During a period of 525 different channels this might have something to do with it.

    Ofcourse youre right with regard to the huge number of channels. Although when OFAH got its highest ever rating of 24.3 million in 1996 the satellite revolution was well under way.

    The point is that however clever Peep Show might be, it simply could never be what OFAH was. There was a national warmth and affection with OFAH which I doubt we will see again.
  • Ghost WorldGhost World Posts: 7,036
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Ofcourse youre right with regard to the huge number of channels. Although when OFAH got its highest ever rating of 24.3 million in 1996 the satellite revolution was well under way.
    20% of households had access to satellite or cable TV in 1996, that number is now 80%. The number of channels has more than doubled.
    Chris1964 wrote: »
    The point is that however clever Peep Show might be, it simply could never be what OFAH was. There was a national warmth and affection with OFAH which I doubt we will see again.
    Well that's inevitable, and not just because of the number of TV channels we have now. The Internet, DVDs, iPlayer, multiple TVs... the idea of everyone sitting down to watch something together is pretty much an anachronism.
  • misslibertinemisslibertine Posts: 14,306
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Ofcourse youre right with regard to the huge number of channels. Although when OFAH got its highest ever rating of 24.3 million in 1996 the satellite revolution was well under way.

    The point is that however clever Peep Show might be, it simply could never be what OFAH was. There was a national warmth and affection with OFAH which I doubt we will see again.

    I think that's more to do with the changes in technology and modern life than the quality of programmes.

    Just my opinion, though.
  • mad_dudemad_dude Posts: 10,670
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    Ofcourse youre right with regard to the huge number of channels. Although when OFAH got its highest ever rating of 24.3 million in 1996 the satellite revolution was well under way.

    The point is that however clever Peep Show might be, it simply could never be what OFAH was. There was a national warmth and affection with OFAH which I doubt we will see again.

    Err when Only fools and horses was first broadcast it was nearly cancelled due to low viewing figures.
  • Chris1964Chris1964 Posts: 19,736
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    mad_dude wrote: »
    Err when Only fools and horses was first broadcast it was nearly cancelled due to low viewing figures.

    Thats true. By my reckoning that would have made it 1982 or 1983 because the low figures continued for a couple of series. the show then grew on repeats of those shows and further series until finally cementing its legendary status with the 1986 Christmas special. After that it was all glory until it "ended" in 1996.
    Admittedly it maybe should not have returned, but the 2001 Christmas special will be one of the few shows this century to reach 20 million +. In all getting on for 20 years of top rating shows-that is some achievement.
  • TabbythecatTabbythecat Posts: 33,953
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    Chris1964 wrote: »
    Thats true.

    Back in 1981, when the pilot aired we didnt have "Hookey Street" theme which incidentally Sullivan wanted Chas & Dave to sing it but they were busy so he sung it himself
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 176
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    Can I just say, I really hate how a lot of the older generation react to swearing like it's a great taboo or something, and that the mere utterance of a curse word takes a show down a peg. Not everyone's like this, but I get that impression from the tone of this interview, especially when referencing a show like Peep Show, which I think is up there with The Inbetweeners and the IT Crowd as one of the top of the current crop of sitcoms. There's an undeniable art to the swear word. Sometimes swear words, when said in a certain situation, are just funny. Is it the most sophisticated form of humour? No, not at all, but neither was Del Boy falling through the bar and Trigger making a face. Peep Show appeals on a number of different levels. It's not like it's just a load of people saying "Cock!" and expecting us to laugh. They work within the story and add to the humour.
  • mad_dudemad_dude Posts: 10,670
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    Can I just say, I really hate how a lot of the older generation react to swearing like it's a great taboo or something, and that the mere utterance of a curse word takes a show down a peg. Not everyone's like this, but I get that impression from the tone of this interview, especially when referencing a show like Peep Show, which I think is up there with The Inbetweeners and the IT Crowd as one of the top of the current crop of sitcoms. There's an undeniable art to the swear word. Sometimes swear words, when said in a certain situation, are just funny. Is it the most sophisticated form of humour? No, not at all, but neither was Del Boy falling through the bar and Trigger making a face. Peep Show appeals on a number of different levels. It's not like it's just a load of people saying "Cock!" and expecting us to laugh. They work within the story and add to the humour.

    How many times did Del Boy refer to a P*ki shop in only fools and horses. I can think of one occasion when they were selling the bomb shelters and Rodney said that if a nuclear bomb dropped there would be nothing, no food, no drink and del replied "Well not to worry there would still be a p*ki shop opened" The fact is only fools and horses relied on cheap stereotypes about minority groups (Particularly homosexuals and asians) to achieve its comedy. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it is simple comedy.
  • TabbythecatTabbythecat Posts: 33,953
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    mad_dude wrote: »
    How many times did Del Boy refer to a P*ki shop in only fools and horses. I can think of one occasion when they were selling the bomb shelters and Rodney said that if a nuclear bomb dropped there would be nothing, no food, no drink and del replied "Well not to worry there would still be a p*ki shop opened" The fact is only fools and horses relied on cheap stereotypes about minority groups (Particularly homosexuals and asians) to achieve its comedy. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it is simple comedy.

    Yes the episode was called "The Russians Are Coming"
  • DDRickyDDDDRickyDD Posts: 5,242
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    Peep Show - Good but not Brilliant
    The Inbetweeners - Good but not Brilliant
    The Office - Ok
    I'm Alan Partridge - Ok
    Gavin and Stacey - Absolute Rubbish.
    The Thick Of It - Absolute Rubbish
    The IT Crowd - Ok
    Spaced - Absolute Rubbish
    Green Wing - Absolute Rubbish
    The Mighty Boosh - Absolute Rubbish.

    John Sullivan is right in what he says. Comedy from the 70's is better than today's.
  • misslibertinemisslibertine Posts: 14,306
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    DDRickyDD wrote: »
    Peep Show - Good but not Brilliant
    The Inbetweeners - Good but not Brilliant
    The Office - Ok
    I'm Alan Partridge - Ok
    Gavin and Stacey - Absolute Rubbish.
    The Thick Of It - Absolute Rubbish
    The IT Crowd - Ok
    Spaced - Absolute Rubbish
    Green Wing - Absolute Rubbish
    The Mighty Boosh - Absolute Rubbish.

    John Sullivan is right in what he says. Comedy from the 70's is better than today's.

    He's right in your opinion. Those shows are "absolute rubbish" in your opinion.

    It doesn't make it fact, so to talk as though it does makes you sound slightly pompous.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 151
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    DDRickyDD wrote: »
    Peep Show - Good but not Brilliant
    The Inbetweeners - Good but not Brilliant
    The Office - Ok
    I'm Alan Partridge - Ok
    Gavin and Stacey - Absolute Rubbish.
    The Thick Of It - Absolute Rubbish
    The IT Crowd - Ok
    Spaced - Absolute Rubbish
    Green Wing - Absolute Rubbish
    The Mighty Boosh - Absolute Rubbish.

    John Sullivan is right in what he says. Comedy from the 70's is better than today's.

    But all (or most) of those shows were unique or original in some way. If we kept on with the 70s style of comedy, it'd get incredibly tedious after a while.

    Modern comedy isn't always great but at least we've moved on a bit from canned laughter and stupid catchphrases (apart from Little Britain. Which, admittedly, was complete cack)
  • FuturespectFuturespect Posts: 847
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    The IT Crowd is 'a bit of silly fun' according to Linehan, and - to the best of my memory - hasn't ever featured strong language. Not sure why people are using it as an example within the context that they are...

    You never saw any drug-fuelled festival or gig violence in Heartbeat, did you? Selective memory's rearing its tired head, I think. Who remembers the minor outcry over Not the Nine O'Clock News?

    My own view is that the Noughties were a terrible decade for culture, with an increase in extremist action, if not desire, tied-in with the continuing rise of self-centredness. I hated the fashion; hair; vast majority of the music; 'celebrities'; reality TV; property-profiteering; boring cars; awful decor; diets; I'm a chef, that there is food, now pay up; love your body!; change your body!; your-life's-rubbish-and-so-are-you; let's all get a new face and paint our teeth; magazines telling you which carpet to import from Indonesia, but not from the factory that kidnaps 3-year-old toddlers... Liz Jones, Chris Martin, Jamie Oliver and Bin Laden, for the quick version.

    But two things have brought me great enjoyment: TV comedy and technology (though certainly not the flashing around of Apple-branded items). I personally think it was the greatest decade for small-screen comedy. Many of my favourites have been mentioned above. One major exception is 15 Storeys High, which offered a touching portrayal of an immigrant (brilliantly-acted by Wong) that even the much-loved Fawlty Towers failed to provide.

    We've drifted onto taste, rather than swearing. The latter is largely independent of comedy, I feel. Generally, people take offence at profanities on TV or they don't. I avoid Paul O'Grady these days, but some animals are grateful for him. My favourite humming noise is that of a fridge, and my favourite colour is black. Blue! No, purple! If you disagree then you're wrong.
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,472
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    The IT Crowd is 'a bit of silly fun' according to Linehan, and - to the best of my memory - hasn't ever featured strong language.

    It definately has.
  • CaptainSensibleCaptainSensible Posts: 5,472
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    James2001 wrote: »
    It definately has.

    "I can't go to jail, Roy! They'll rape the flip out of me!"
  • FuturespectFuturespect Posts: 847
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    I've watched a number of episodes and don't recall any. Swearing flows over me if the actor incorporates it naturally, though. 'Flaming' jumps out a mile on Coronation Street. (When I'm walking past the door and it's on, like.)

    That's at the heart of this debate for my money: swearing for effect, and swearing because the characters would.
  • essexpeteessexpete Posts: 9,189
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    IMO, ther have only ben a couple of classic sitcoms from the last 20 yrs, One Foot In The Grave and The Office, still think Plus One could have become a classic if C4 had any foresight:mad:
  • essexpeteessexpete Posts: 9,189
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    oh and nightingales
  • grimtales1grimtales1 Posts: 46,688
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    Bertypop wrote: »
    Gotta love how he mentions One Foot In The Grave - that was littered with swear words.

    Does he say thats good or bad comedy?
    One Foot was/is brilliant.
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