But surely Len should not have given '8' for that Rumba - that was hardly consistent.
He was also inconsistent with Pixie. He ignored her bad legs in the Jive but criticised them in the Cha cha.
I can't remember what the other judges gave for Marks Rumba (about the same I think). I think it was a fare score for Marks dancing - his criticism was of the choreography which he didn't penalise Mark for.
Pixies Jive was very early on in the competition so he rightly expected the problem with her legs to have been at least improved by the quarter finals.
I am glad at least one judge is trying to keep a few rules to abide to otherwise we would just have freestyle showdances all the time.
I watched Len with Lucy Worsley on that history of dance programme, and I did begin to wonder how good a dancer he'd actually been. Even allowing for his age, and the fact that he hasn't been dancing competitively for a while, he wasn't very good. Also, I'd like them to sort out the question of what Len remembers about dancing from 30 years ago when he was doing it, and what professional dancers are doing now, because I can't believe that the professional dancers are so "off" in their choreography.
And that's the thing you see. Dance is really subjective. I thought Simon's samba was pretty good although there was an error in the routine. Frankie got her routine right but her AT technique was non existent (although to be fair same applied to Kevin). On that direct comparison I would have knocked a point off Simon for not getting the routine correct. Not getting the basic technique of a dance right seems to me to be a worse failing than making an error in the routine so arguably Frankie should have got a point less than Simon.
This ^^^^^^
But this thread is really just another outlet for all of those still angry with Len and Darcey from last week ;-).
But this thread is really just another outlet for all of those still angry with Len and Darcey from last week ;-).
I heartily agree. As I have noted elsewhere Judging a dance is at the end of the day an opinion not a fact. The idea that by getting shot of Len and Darcy and replacing them with two others you would eliminate controversy is frankly nonsense.
Let me put my cards on the table. I liked Pixie and felt last night lacked a little bit because she wasn't there. However I believe Len and Darcy were 100% honest in what they did. It was Pixie's misfortune that she ended up in the dance off on her weakest dance and as we are always told nobody is safe. Simon in the dance off in my opinion did better than Pixie and please remember she was in the Dance off because the viewing public put her there. If you are judging at that point if you are taking into account what has gone before there is no point in the Dance Off.
As for conspiracy theories do me a favour.
Plot 1 Deliberately mark Pixie down at the conclusion of her dance
Plot 2 Give Pixie top marks for her waltz
Plot 3 Engineer her appearance of the Dance Off
Plot 4 Put Simon through because the two of them don't like her.
I don't think so. Please also remember it's a reality light entertainment show.
Len is head judge and elder statesman now Sir Bruce has gone and that makes for a dangerous position for one person. Tess can't handle him the way Bruce could so there needs to be a change somewhere as Bruce was host but also in charge of proceedings which is not the same with Tess.
Fforsyth could never handle the Judges. Either he didn't give them a chance to speak, (more times than one cold count over the years), or he talked over them on the (vain) assumption that he knew better than them.
At least Tess gives them all a chance to respond without interrupting them.
I watched Len with Lucy Worsley on that history of dance programme, and I did begin to wonder how good a dancer he'd actually been. Even allowing for his age, and the fact that he hasn't been dancing competitively for a while, he wasn't very good. Also, I'd like them to sort out the question of what Len remembers about dancing from 30 years ago when he was doing it, and what professional dancers are doing now, because I can't believe that the professional dancers are so "off" in their choreography.
I do think Len is a bit old school for this show now. I have really enjoyed some of the more innovative choreography and it's obvious the producers are trying to be a bit more up to date (not always successfully) and move the show forward. Hopefully he is on the way out.
I do think Len is a bit old school for this show now. I have really enjoyed some of the more innovative choreography and it's obvious the producers are trying to be a bit more up to date (not always successfully) and move the show forward. Hopefully he is on the way out.
The problem with Len is that what he is marking is NOT what the show is attempting to be! If the show wants to do away with the tighter rules on what dances should be and make it more entertaining for the masses, I don't think Len has a place on it anymore.
I still believe that the judges should be Craig, Bruno & Karen Hardy - one less would save about £100k a year and eliminate the need for all this head judge nonsense!
as she would say 'I'm being picky' but it's Darcey not Darcy
anyways, I'm quite literally in LUST with her so she needs to stay. I'd quite like to see the panel of 4 balanced with 2 x male 2 x female judges. I like Craig, I like Bruno, I LOVE Darcey ... so emmm you work it out in terms of who I'm not really bothered about
The problem with Len is that what he is marking is NOT what the show is attempting to be! If the show wants to do away with the tighter rules on what dances should be and make it more entertaining for the masses, I don't think Len has a place on it anymore.
Well, there must be rules about ballroom and Latin dancing that apply to judging competitions today. I know nothing about dancing beyond what I've seen on TV, but it happens so many times that Len will criticize a dance because he says they're doing illegal lifts, or some other thing. Now, either Len is wrong, and modern rules say that you can now do these things, or the professional dancers are doing the wrong choreography, and therefore setting their partners up for a bad mark. Whatever the answer is, they need to sort it out so that we all know what's going on.
I think they're both ok as judges - each has their own views and expertise. What I don't like is the way Len is so rude and intolerant of the audience....we're the guys who pay his inflated salary so show us some respect please old man. Otherwise they're both fine. Bruno does get on my nerves tho, but again he's ok as a judge.
Got to agree with many of the posters here Darcy as a judge is a joke and Len hardly much better. No logic in their scores. Darcy consistently over marking the males and Len appears scared of the producers to score realistically - or maybe just tring to counter balance Craig who scores what he actually sees.
Both Darcy and Len need to be replaced as well as the producers who are beginning to to ruin a good show. The whole business at the beginning of each show with the introduction of the the judges is making them believe the show is about them and not the dancers. Darcy, Len and the producers have to go and take Tess with them to save the format otherwise it is doomed.
Well, there must be rules about ballroom and Latin dancing that apply to judging competitions today. I know nothing about dancing beyond what I've seen on TV, but it happens so many times that Len will criticize a dance because he says they're doing illegal lifts, or some other thing. Now, either Len is wrong, and modern rules say that you can now do these things, or the professional dancers are doing the wrong choreography, and therefore setting their partners up for a bad mark. Whatever the answer is, they need to sort it out so that we all know what's going on.
I think the BBC decided on the "no lifts" rule, partly to force everyone to learn to dance and partly to make the "show dance" more special. For some reason, they are letting the pro dancers get away with putting lifts in.
Len is the only judge with experience competing in and teaching ballroom dance, so when he is in a minority of one, he is right and the others are wrong.
Len is head judge and elder statesman now Sir Bruce has gone and that makes for a dangerous position for one person. Tess can't handle him the way Bruce could so there needs to be a change somewhere as Bruce was host but also in charge of proceedings which is not the same with Tess.
I'd agree with that. Len thinks he can say and do what he likes n whatever tone. He has become a law unto himself and highly unpleasant.
Fforsyth could never handle the Judges. Either he didn't give them a chance to speak, (more times than one cold count over the years), or he talked over them on the (vain) assumption that he knew better than them.
At least Tess gives them all a chance to respond without interrupting them.
Totally agree, he just rabbited on whilst reading the auto queue.
Old Darcles did make me laugh tonight....
Oh Mark you and Karen really created something special tonight...
The couple I want to save is Jake and Janette:p:D:p
Well, there must be rules about ballroom and Latin dancing that apply to judging competitions today. I know nothing about dancing beyond what I've seen on TV, but it happens so many times that Len will criticize a dance because he says they're doing illegal lifts, or some other thing. Now, either Len is wrong, and modern rules say that you can now do these things, or the professional dancers are doing the wrong choreography, and therefore setting their partners up for a bad mark. Whatever the answer is, they need to sort it out so that we all know what's going on.
In competitive dancing there are no lifts whatsoever, none in any ballroom or latin dances ( standard 10 dances). There always has to be a 1 foot on the ground. ALL the ballroom dances are done in full hold with no breaking away. You would never ever see any competitive couple stray away from these rules.
Of course, this is strictly and rules are not adhered to, the pro's will want to push to see how far they can go, and breaking few rules, to make the choreo interesting and entertaining for the audience.
I personally don't want to see lifts in a dance that shouldn't have them. I like ballroom in full hold, but as is always pointed out, this is entertainment not a dance competition
Comments
This is probably very true.
People have favourites and some don't like others who don't agree with them. The judges personas are scripted and carefully managed; it's television.
This programme is for entertainment and that is as much true the contestants and the judges.
Oh yes it does!
I can't remember what the other judges gave for Marks Rumba (about the same I think). I think it was a fare score for Marks dancing - his criticism was of the choreography which he didn't penalise Mark for.
Pixies Jive was very early on in the competition so he rightly expected the problem with her legs to have been at least improved by the quarter finals.
I am glad at least one judge is trying to keep a few rules to abide to otherwise we would just have freestyle showdances all the time.
Surely we are all completely impartial, it is everyone who is biased.
But this thread is really just another outlet for all of those still angry with Len and Darcey from last week ;-).
I heartily agree. As I have noted elsewhere Judging a dance is at the end of the day an opinion not a fact. The idea that by getting shot of Len and Darcy and replacing them with two others you would eliminate controversy is frankly nonsense.
Let me put my cards on the table. I liked Pixie and felt last night lacked a little bit because she wasn't there. However I believe Len and Darcy were 100% honest in what they did. It was Pixie's misfortune that she ended up in the dance off on her weakest dance and as we are always told nobody is safe. Simon in the dance off in my opinion did better than Pixie and please remember she was in the Dance off because the viewing public put her there. If you are judging at that point if you are taking into account what has gone before there is no point in the Dance Off.
As for conspiracy theories do me a favour.
Plot 1 Deliberately mark Pixie down at the conclusion of her dance
Plot 2 Give Pixie top marks for her waltz
Plot 3 Engineer her appearance of the Dance Off
Plot 4 Put Simon through because the two of them don't like her.
I don't think so. Please also remember it's a reality light entertainment show.
Fforsyth could never handle the Judges. Either he didn't give them a chance to speak, (more times than one cold count over the years), or he talked over them on the (vain) assumption that he knew better than them.
At least Tess gives them all a chance to respond without interrupting them.
I do think Len is a bit old school for this show now. I have really enjoyed some of the more innovative choreography and it's obvious the producers are trying to be a bit more up to date (not always successfully) and move the show forward. Hopefully he is on the way out.
The problem with Len is that what he is marking is NOT what the show is attempting to be! If the show wants to do away with the tighter rules on what dances should be and make it more entertaining for the masses, I don't think Len has a place on it anymore.
I still believe that the judges should be Craig, Bruno & Karen Hardy - one less would save about £100k a year and eliminate the need for all this head judge nonsense!
anyways, I'm quite literally in LUST with her so she needs to stay. I'd quite like to see the panel of 4 balanced with 2 x male 2 x female judges. I like Craig, I like Bruno, I LOVE Darcey ... so emmm you work it out in terms of who I'm not really bothered about
Well, there must be rules about ballroom and Latin dancing that apply to judging competitions today. I know nothing about dancing beyond what I've seen on TV, but it happens so many times that Len will criticize a dance because he says they're doing illegal lifts, or some other thing. Now, either Len is wrong, and modern rules say that you can now do these things, or the professional dancers are doing the wrong choreography, and therefore setting their partners up for a bad mark. Whatever the answer is, they need to sort it out so that we all know what's going on.
Both Darcy and Len need to be replaced as well as the producers who are beginning to to ruin a good show. The whole business at the beginning of each show with the introduction of the the judges is making them believe the show is about them and not the dancers. Darcy, Len and the producers have to go and take Tess with them to save the format otherwise it is doomed.
I think the BBC decided on the "no lifts" rule, partly to force everyone to learn to dance and partly to make the "show dance" more special. For some reason, they are letting the pro dancers get away with putting lifts in.
Len is the only judge with experience competing in and teaching ballroom dance, so when he is in a minority of one, he is right and the others are wrong.
I'd agree with that. Len thinks he can say and do what he likes n whatever tone. He has become a law unto himself and highly unpleasant.
Totally agree, he just rabbited on whilst reading the auto queue.
Len and Darcy to stay
Oh Mark you and Karen really created something special tonight...
The couple I want to save is Jake and Janette:p:D:p
In competitive dancing there are no lifts whatsoever, none in any ballroom or latin dances ( standard 10 dances). There always has to be a 1 foot on the ground. ALL the ballroom dances are done in full hold with no breaking away. You would never ever see any competitive couple stray away from these rules.
Of course, this is strictly and rules are not adhered to, the pro's will want to push to see how far they can go, and breaking few rules, to make the choreo interesting and entertaining for the audience.
I personally don't want to see lifts in a dance that shouldn't have them. I like ballroom in full hold, but as is always pointed out, this is entertainment not a dance competition