A large number of posts have been removed from this thread due to their disruptive and disrespectful nature. Please use the red 'alert' button to bring these posts to a moderator's attention and do not respond to them in future.
So after a 9 min convo with sd he heads straight to mbolombo to arrange a hijack. Thats not in dispute then.
Wtf did he say to him????
well, take your pick. Both options include telling Tongo, a man he has known for less than an hour, (an unlicensed cabbie who he had to leave the airport terminus to seek out to save himself 100 rand on the fare, walking past licensed cabbie's on the way), that he has 15,000 rand in cash to spend, and he may need his assistance to find a back street money changer.
1. he asks for Tongo's assistance to book a helicopter trip where he and Anni can have some nice private fun, heavily discounted for cash.
2. he asks for Tongo's assistance to find someone prepared to take a woman off the scene.
And he omitted ever to tell police anything about 1., - arrangements that spanned the next 24 hours, phone calls, texts, a visit to the money changer, taking the money with him in a secret package, calling Tongo from the restaurant toilet to ask if he had arranged it at 10pm at night, texting Tongo from the back seat of the cab to say he had the money, thinking they were on their way to meet a pilot at 11pm but knowing also that they were following Anni's suggestions about what to do after they'd eaten.
Saying months later that he was actually leaving the money in the cab for Tongo's tour guide services and for a surprise gift for Anni.
I think that's more the newspapers, or the daily fail, trying to get a story. I suspect all it is is both sets of parents offering support to each other.
I think that's more the newspapers, or the daily fail, trying to get a story. I suspect all it is is both sets of parents offering support to each other.
I think you're right. I would imagine that the press asked them what they hoped would happen and they answered. So often when things like this appear in the paper it the impression is given that the subject "went to the press", when the press did the contacting.
I think that's more the newspapers, or the daily fail, trying to get a story. I suspect all it is is both sets of parents offering support to each other.
And to add to my post above about option 1, if true, Tongo zipped over to Mbolombo to arrange an armed robbery, all for the robbers who he had never met to receive the 15,000 rand plus any other spoils such as jewellery. Did he think the robbers he didn't know would share it with him?
I think you're right. I would imagine that the press asked them what they hoped would happen and they answered. So often when things like this appear in the paper it the impression is given that the subject "went to the press", when the press did the contacting.
And to add to my post above about option 1, if true, Tongo zipped over to Mbolombo to arrange an armed robbery, all for the robbers who he had never met to receive the 15,000 rand plus any other spoils such as jewellery. Did he think the robbers he didn't know would share it with him?
This is an excellent point. And moreover, did it never cross his mind that they might shoot him and/or take his vehicle ? Ie that it might turn into a real hijacking?
Thanks for not rising to that - face value please. I think we've been getting on just fine. She's right that you didn't owe me anything but I did take the opportunity to look up ADD and learnt something so thanks.
Some comments on here are getting a bit too personal and its uncomfortable to read. This is a complex case which is what makes it interesting to debate and discuss but there is no need to belittle others just because their opinions do not match your own.
I find it fascinating reading opinions and theories which oppose my own and they actually help me to stay balanced in my thinking and open-minded. It doesn't occur to me to patronise others or make condescending remarks so I'm not sure why some feel the need to...
Totally agree. That is what I was looking forward to on this thread. It hasn't worked out like that - partly due to problems with my computer and keeping up to date with the information and that I am having a kitchen installed. When all is settled here and maybe after Christmas I will go through the thread again and follow all the links and work it all through for myself. There has been some high quality discussion that I will still be able to access then. Of course if I have any astounding insights there will be no one to share them with
This is an excellent point. And moreover, did it never cross his mind that they might shoot him and/or take his vehicle ? Ie that it might turn into a real hijacking?
prosecution fail I fear. big time. the defence application should have been robustly opposed. it's such a mystery to me.
Absolutely. Anni's family will obviously be most upset by the trial but other murder victims families (particularly of a young woman) will also feel a connection with them and be affected by it (as of course anyone with a heart). There is a they-are-us-but-not-us feeling of solidarity.
Just reading that transcript of Sneha's recording again. Reading Shrien's account of the fateful evening, he does come across as believable although there are a few things I find curious -
- He talks about why would he do this, what would the benefit be in killing her "Why would I spend £10,000 for 1st class tickets to the best hotel in the whole of South Africa?"
If he's brought that up though, I would have expected him to express some kind of emotion and break down and say something about the special expensive 'gift/helicopter trip' he had planned for her that he was gonna pay for that very night, as it would follow on from what he was saying re spending all that money on plane tickets. He seems like such a cold character in any case (not an indication of guilt I know, could just be his personality/fact that he wasn't that emotionally invested in Anni). It's such a contrast to Mr Hindocha's obvious grief.
If he had mentioned that gift/helicopter trip and the cash that the taxi driver knew about, how different that conversation would have gone. SD: "I had planned this big romantic gesture costing me R10K, the taxi driver had arranged everything for me and all we had to do was go and pay for it that night, we had the cash with us in the taxi." Everyone else: "WHAT??!! Hang on, say that again, the TAXI DRIVER arranged something for you, he KNEW you'd have R10K on you??!! Oh my God Shrien why didn't you mention this before, don't you get it, the taxi driver did this, how could you be so naive, gosh Shrien we need to tell the police this info now, why didn't you mention this to them?!!!!" = CASE CLOSED, no one suspects SD anymore. Simple. Yet he didn't tell them.
- SD says that on the way there Tongo suggested they see Mzoli's, but on the way back Tongo said 'let's go back to the Waterfront', then Tongo and Anni chatted and Tongo asked if they just wanted to go to back to the Waterfront or is there somewhere else to go.
So it was Tongo's suggestion to just go straight back to the Waterfront then...? That's odd if he was desperate to convince them to go into the townships.
I must say that if Tongo planned this robbery, his acting skills are brilliant, especially in regards to the CCTV at the hotel with Dewani, cool as a cucumber, no concern whatsoever that Dewani might catch on. Then having the cheek to ask for money as well!! Wow.
Just reading that transcript of Sneha's recording again. Reading Shrien's account of the fateful evening, he does come across as believable although there are a few things I find curious -
- He talks about why would he do this, what would the benefit be in killing her "Why would I spend £10,000 for 1st class tickets to the best hotel in the whole of South Africa?"
If he's brought that up though, I would have expected him to express some kind of emotion and break down and say something about the special expensive 'gift/helicopter trip' he had planned for her that he was gonna pay for that very night, as it would follow on from what he was saying re spending all that money on plane tickets. He seems like such a cold character in any case (not an indication of guilt I know, could just be his personality/fact that he wasn't that emotionally invested in Anni). It's such a contrast to Mr Hindocha's obvious grief.
If he had mentioned that gift/helicopter trip and the cash that the taxi driver knew about, how different that conversation would have gone. SD: "I had planned this big romantic gesture costing me R10K, the taxi driver had arranged everything for me and all we had to do was go and pay for it that night, we had the cash with us in the taxi." Everyone else: "WHAT??!! Hang on, say that again, the TAXI DRIVER arranged something for you, he KNEW you'd have R10K on you??!! Oh my God Shrien why didn't you mention this before, don't you get it, the taxi driver did this, how could you be so naive, gosh Shrien we need to tell the police this info now, why didn't you mention this to them?!!!!" = CASE CLOSED, no one suspects SD anymore. Simple. Yet he didn't tell them.
- SD says that on the way there Tongo suggested they see Mzoli's, but on the way back Tongo said 'let's go back to the Waterfront', then Tongo and Anni chatted and Tongo asked if they just wanted to go to back to the Waterfront or is there somewhere else to go.
So it was Tongo's suggestion to just go straight back to the Waterfront then...? That's odd if he was desperate to convince them to go into the townships.
I must say that if Tongo planned this robbery, his acting skills are brilliant, especially in regards to the CCTV at the hotel with Dewani, cool as a cucumber, no concern whatsoever that Dewani might catch on. Then having the cheek to ask for money as well!! Wow.
Bib 1: this begs the question - why then would he try to save 100 rand by seeking out an illegal taxi driver rather than getting a no-expense spared limousine with bubbly on ice ? It's totally illogical to spend huge amounts of money and skimp on a taxi, in my opinion.
Bib 2: yes exactly. This is the most suspicious thing if all. Why does he give no indication if this, it would be understandable for a newly bereaved husband to break down and say 'I can't believe this has happened, we were supposed to go on a lovely helicopter trip. Instead...' . But he makes no mention of it for all those years.
Bib 3: again, totally illogical for ZT to suggest going back to the Waterfront
Just reading that transcript of Sneha's recording again. Reading Shrien's account of the fateful evening, he does come across as believable although there are a few things I find curious -
- He talks about why would he do this, what would the benefit be in killing her "Why would I spend £10,000 for 1st class tickets to the best hotel in the whole of South Africa?"
If he's brought that up though, I would have expected him to express some kind of emotion and break down and say something about the special expensive 'gift/helicopter trip' he had planned for her that he was gonna pay for that very night, as it would follow on from what he was saying re spending all that money on plane tickets. He seems like such a cold character in any case (not an indication of guilt I know, could just be his personality/fact that he wasn't that emotionally invested in Anni). It's such a contrast to Mr Hindocha's obvious grief.
If he had mentioned that gift/helicopter trip and the cash that the taxi driver knew about, how different that conversation would have gone. SD: "I had planned this big romantic gesture costing me R10K, the taxi driver had arranged everything for me and all we had to do was go and pay for it that night, we had the cash with us in the taxi." Everyone else: "WHAT??!! Hang on, say that again, the TAXI DRIVER arranged something for you, he KNEW you'd have R10K on you??!! Oh my God Shrien why didn't you mention this before, don't you get it, the taxi driver did this, how could you be so naive, gosh Shrien we need to tell the police this info now, why didn't you mention this to them?!!!!" = CASE CLOSED, no one suspects SD anymore. Simple. Yet he didn't tell them.
- SD says that on the way there Tongo suggested they see Mzoli's, but on the way back Tongo said 'let's go back to the Waterfront', then Tongo and Anni chatted and Tongo asked if they just wanted to go to back to the Waterfront or is there somewhere else to go.
So it was Tongo's suggestion to just go straight back to the Waterfront then...? That's odd if he was desperate to convince them to go into the townships.
I must say that if Tongo planned this robbery, his acting skills are brilliant, especially in regards to the CCTV at the hotel with Dewani, cool as a cucumber, no concern whatsoever that Dewani might catch on. Then having the cheek to ask for money as well!! Wow.
I'm interested to know which bits you found especially believable mini mog?
I would genuinely love to be able to believe SD is innocent and if he is then it is truly awful what he has had to go through, but that is where my sympathy ends because he was only ever going to make Anni unhappy in the long run and he should've done the decent thing and let her find someone who actually loved her. She deserved better than someone who was logging onto Gaydar on their honeymoon and going off to make phone calls to a taxi driver leaving her on her own. Who does that on honeymoon?!!
The trouble is I just find the hit scenario makes sense and the robbery story doesn't seem to at all.
If the plan was a simple hijack/robbery which wasn't meant to end in murder (as per the accidental shooting theory) and they both survived and got out of the car unharmed, you can bet they would have reported it. Now, people have said these things don't get solved etc, yet Dewani had Tongo's contact details, he also only had to mention the R10K gift/trip that Tongo was supposedly organising to the police, for Tongo to be a suspect instantly. Tongo would have considered this surely. This was not a random hijack, this was due to a known sum of money SD would be carrying. He would have been implicated straight away so why would he take that risk?
Not only that but Tongo went straight to police didn't he, why on earth would he do that if he had planned it all?
Just thinking about Tongo's claim that when they went to change money, Dewani told him they had to rush because his wife was in the shower or washing. Dewani's plea statement says that Anni was about to take a shower when he went to change money the first time - without Tongo - but that she was sunbathing by the pool when he went to change money the second time.
Did Tongo invent that detail after reading it in Dewani's plea statement, but tripped up because he's getting mixed up about the two money changing trips? Worth noting it also tends to contradict his claim that he didn't realize the wife was the one to be killed.
I've responded to Geelong's post before, but I've been wondering something else, BIB. To what extent would Tongo, sitting in jail in Malmesbury and as far as I know without a lawyer now, know about Dewani's plea statement? It was dated 3 October 2014.
Those of us who follow the trial closely online read and refer to the actual document, but details like the washing versus sunbathing wouldn't have been reported in the news.
I would genuinely love to be able to believe SD is innocent and if he is then it is truly awful what he has had to go through, but that is where my sympathy ends because he was only ever going to make Anni unhappy in the long run and he should've done the decent thing and let her find someone who actually loved her. She deserved better than someone who was logging onto Gaydar on their honeymoon and going off to make phone calls to a taxi driver leaving her on her own. Who does that on honeymoon?!!
The trouble is I just find the hit scenario makes sense and the robbery story doesn't seem to at all.
If the plan was a simple hijack/robbery which wasn't meant to end in murder (as per the accidental shooting theory) and they both survived and got out of the car unharmed, you can bet they would have reported it. Now, people have said these things don't get solved etc, yet Dewani had Tongo's contact details, he also only had to mention the R10K gift/trip that Tongo was supposedly organising to the police, for Tongo to be a suspect instantly. Tongo would have considered this surely. This was not a random hijack, this was due to a known sum of money SD would be carrying. He would have been implicated straight away so why would he take that risk?
Not only that but Tongo went straight to police didn't he, why on earth would he do that if he had planned it all?
I agree. Anni would still be dead but it would be so much better to not have the belief that she was betrayed by the man who should have wanted to keep her safe. So much easier for Anni's family to deal with too both in terms of her not being so horribly betrayed and them not having played a part in a wedding that handed her over to a monster.
I'm interested to know which bits you found especially believable mini mog?
The bit about the list of restaurants the hotel transfer service would take them, and if they wanted to go anywhere else he would need another taxi. If that's correct I can understand him wanting Tongo's number. In case they wanted to do something different.
And the fact he told them about all the arguments they had been having beforehand but they had got past that. So he was saying look we have had problems but please don't think we spent the whole honeymoon like that.
I don't know really, he waffles a lot lol! Just some of it seemed genuine enough. Some of it was over explained though I thought.
A large number of posts have been removed from this thread due to their disruptive and disrespectful nature. Please use the red 'alert' button to bring these posts to a moderator's attention and do not respond to them in future.
Thanks!
For a lively and controversial topic, I think it's amazing that we got to #6814 without moderator intervention. Well done to most of the posters here.
As far as I understand, one expert says, that there is enough circumstantial evidence not to discharge the case.
The other expert says, that the state failed to provide evidence to convict SD and they cannot expect SD to do so by incriminating himself.
The bit about the list of restaurants the hotel transfer service would take them, and if they wanted to go anywhere else he would need another taxi. If that's correct I can understand him wanting Tongo's number. In case they wanted to do something different.
You see, now that rang particularly untrue with me as someone who knows the hotel and the area very well.
Talking to the families, Shrien Dewani casually made it sound as though the hotel presents guests with a limited list of approved restaurants they will drive you to for free, and if you don't want to go to one of those then you're on your own. In addition, he spoke as though the suggestion to go out of town actually came from the hotel staff!
What the hotel in fact offers is a "luxury chauffeur transfer service within the City Bowl (10km/ 6 mile radius) including Kirstenbosch Botanical Gardens". At the time of the murder I recall checking the hotel's site and it was 20km. But let's call it 10km.
Have a look at this lovely map of Cape Town (click on it, it's fun, even for cartophobes.)
The V&A is bottom left (spot the Cape Grace hotel) where there are about 80 eating destinations from 5 star hotels and world-class restaurants right through to takeaways. Follow the Atlantic coast along the bottom of the map, with restaurants all the way until you reach Camps Bay (7km away) which has a concentration of dozens of excellent restaurants on the beach.
Or head into the city bowl, the area surrounded by Table Mountain, Lions Head, Signal Hill. The whole of the city centre is well within a 10 km radius.
The hotel mentions Kirstenbosch Gardens as being a free trip within the radius. If you look at the far left of Table Mountain, it's on the other side below the mountain under the clouds. That's in what we call the southern suburbs, where there are yet more great restaurants, all though the options begin getting a little sparser compared to the density of town and the coast.
Now look at the top right of the map and see the start of Strand, about 45/50km away. Somerset West and 96 Winery Road are way off the top of the map, also about 45/50km away.
"So I asked his mobile number - so that when we need a driver... Okay, it was included in the hotel package - if you go to one of their restaurants a transfer to that restaurant was included. So they had a list of the restaurants where one of the hotel's BMWs will take you, but when you went somewhere else then you needed to hire a taxi."
See what he did there?
Now listen to his own words:
"So we got reception to book this 96 Wine Route [96 Winery Road in Somerset West 50km away]. We asked them for a romantic restaurant and they had like a, the vegetarian menu was not too great, but they gave me a menu and it had old South African cottage style, so we booked that. That's when I called or texted to say come in the evening."
He is trying to make the family believe that out of hundreds and hundreds of restaurants in the 10km radius, the only romantic restaurant the hotel could come up with was 50km away. Without googling right now I, someone not in the tourism industry, could name 10 wonderfully romantic restaurants within walking distance and another 20 within close driving distance.
Preyen then asks, "But why did they not send a hotel car?"
Shrien: "Cause that is not on their list, cause it is so far out, so, um, that is when I, we, called him."
The bit about the list of restaurants the hotel transfer service would take them, and if they wanted to go anywhere else he would need another taxi. If that's correct I can understand him wanting Tongo's number. In case they wanted to do something different.
Yes, that would be understandable.
What I don't understand is, why SD wanted to go to a restaurant, for which you have to drive for 30min in the night. On that route, there is nothing to see - except townships.
And the fact he told them about all the arguments they had been having beforehand but they had got past that. So he was saying look we have had problems but please don't think we spent the whole honeymoon like that.
Well, I guess the arguments before honeymoon were hardly deniable, because he knew, that Sneha would probably know about it.
"So we got reception to book this 96 Wine Route [96 Winery Road in Somerset West 50km away]. We asked them for a romantic restaurant and they had like a, the vegetarian menu was not too great, but they gave me a menu and it had old South African cottage style, so we booked that. That's when I called or texted to say come in the evening."
Furthermore he tries to say that they both got reception and they both were asking for recommendations at the hotel, where in fact only SD did that.
In SD's plea the first recommendation comes from Tongo and he asks the concierge by himself - which was probably not deniable by cctv evidence and staff witness.
Anni gives only her "ok" to it.
- SD says that on the way there Tongo suggested they see Mzoli's, but on the way back Tongo said 'let's go back to the Waterfront', then Tongo and Anni chatted and Tongo asked if they just wanted to go to back to the Waterfront or is there somewhere else to go.
So it was Tongo's suggestion to just go straight back to the Waterfront then...? That's odd if he was desperate to convince them to go into the townships.
It's important to remember that every story about the conversations in the car that led to the two detours, every changing story, has come from Shrien Dewani.
Tongo was also in the vehicle obviously, but his statement and testimony tell no story about any conversation regarding the detours. Tongo just describes driving to Gugulethu as agreed.
So an analysis like this can't say "...it was Tongo's suggestion to go straight back to the Waterfront...?" but should rather be that on this date Dewani was still trying to paint the picture that Anni, who obviously can't correct him, was the one who wanted the second detour.
It's the changing locus of decision in Dewani's lies that I've posted about before.
So what was this date? It was Monday 22 November. On the previous Tuesday to Thursday the hitmen and MM had been arrested and Dewani was telling the "Anni's suggestion/insistance" stories. On the weekend Tongo had handed himself in and by the Sunday night signed his plea statement implicating Dewani.
On the Monday, the same day as the family meeting, Tongo appeared in court charged with the murder. If you read news reports from this day it's clear that the police hadn't yet mentioned that Shrien was implicated, but the media was speculating and Clifford was in overdrive denying.
In fact it's clear that the police were trying to keep Dewani complacent by not yet disclosing Tongo's revelations, in the hope of getting him to return to South Africa of his own accord. Its seems they tried two failed ruses, the ID line-up and jewellery identification.
So on the day of the family meeting I'm sure Dewani was pretty scared of what Tongo may have told the police, but his story to the family on that day remained what it had been for the previous eight days, that the locus of the decision was Anni.
It was not long after this that his fake descriptions of the conversations shifted the blame onto Tongo, with Anni just saying "whatever".
Comments
Thanks!
well, take your pick. Both options include telling Tongo, a man he has known for less than an hour, (an unlicensed cabbie who he had to leave the airport terminus to seek out to save himself 100 rand on the fare, walking past licensed cabbie's on the way), that he has 15,000 rand in cash to spend, and he may need his assistance to find a back street money changer.
1. he asks for Tongo's assistance to book a helicopter trip where he and Anni can have some nice private fun, heavily discounted for cash.
2. he asks for Tongo's assistance to find someone prepared to take a woman off the scene.
And he omitted ever to tell police anything about 1., - arrangements that spanned the next 24 hours, phone calls, texts, a visit to the money changer, taking the money with him in a secret package, calling Tongo from the restaurant toilet to ask if he had arranged it at 10pm at night, texting Tongo from the back seat of the cab to say he had the money, thinking they were on their way to meet a pilot at 11pm but knowing also that they were following Anni's suggestions about what to do after they'd eaten.
Saying months later that he was actually leaving the money in the cab for Tongo's tour guide services and for a surprise gift for Anni.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/shrien-dewani-trial-reeva-steenkamps-parents-call-on-judge-to-stop-murder-case-collapsing-9906887.html#
Not sure if they should get involved.
I think that's more the newspapers, or the daily fail, trying to get a story. I suspect all it is is both sets of parents offering support to each other.
I think you're right. I would imagine that the press asked them what they hoped would happen and they answered. So often when things like this appear in the paper it the impression is given that the subject "went to the press", when the press did the contacting.
Yes I am sure you are right Claire.
My heart goes out to both sets of parents
This is an excellent point. And moreover, did it never cross his mind that they might shoot him and/or take his vehicle ? Ie that it might turn into a real hijacking?
What do you make of the evidence and the trial?
prosecution fail I fear. big time. the defence application should have been robustly opposed. it's such a mystery to me.
Absolutely. Anni's family will obviously be most upset by the trial but other murder victims families (particularly of a young woman) will also feel a connection with them and be affected by it (as of course anyone with a heart). There is a they-are-us-but-not-us feeling of solidarity.
Just reading that transcript of Sneha's recording again. Reading Shrien's account of the fateful evening, he does come across as believable although there are a few things I find curious -
- He talks about why would he do this, what would the benefit be in killing her "Why would I spend £10,000 for 1st class tickets to the best hotel in the whole of South Africa?"
If he's brought that up though, I would have expected him to express some kind of emotion and break down and say something about the special expensive 'gift/helicopter trip' he had planned for her that he was gonna pay for that very night, as it would follow on from what he was saying re spending all that money on plane tickets. He seems like such a cold character in any case (not an indication of guilt I know, could just be his personality/fact that he wasn't that emotionally invested in Anni). It's such a contrast to Mr Hindocha's obvious grief.
If he had mentioned that gift/helicopter trip and the cash that the taxi driver knew about, how different that conversation would have gone. SD: "I had planned this big romantic gesture costing me R10K, the taxi driver had arranged everything for me and all we had to do was go and pay for it that night, we had the cash with us in the taxi." Everyone else: "WHAT??!! Hang on, say that again, the TAXI DRIVER arranged something for you, he KNEW you'd have R10K on you??!! Oh my God Shrien why didn't you mention this before, don't you get it, the taxi driver did this, how could you be so naive, gosh Shrien we need to tell the police this info now, why didn't you mention this to them?!!!!" = CASE CLOSED, no one suspects SD anymore. Simple. Yet he didn't tell them.
- SD says that on the way there Tongo suggested they see Mzoli's, but on the way back Tongo said 'let's go back to the Waterfront', then Tongo and Anni chatted and Tongo asked if they just wanted to go to back to the Waterfront or is there somewhere else to go.
So it was Tongo's suggestion to just go straight back to the Waterfront then...? That's odd if he was desperate to convince them to go into the townships.
I must say that if Tongo planned this robbery, his acting skills are brilliant, especially in regards to the CCTV at the hotel with Dewani, cool as a cucumber, no concern whatsoever that Dewani might catch on. Then having the cheek to ask for money as well!! Wow.
Bib 1: this begs the question - why then would he try to save 100 rand by seeking out an illegal taxi driver rather than getting a no-expense spared limousine with bubbly on ice ? It's totally illogical to spend huge amounts of money and skimp on a taxi, in my opinion.
Bib 2: yes exactly. This is the most suspicious thing if all. Why does he give no indication if this, it would be understandable for a newly bereaved husband to break down and say 'I can't believe this has happened, we were supposed to go on a lovely helicopter trip. Instead...' . But he makes no mention of it for all those years.
Bib 3: again, totally illogical for ZT to suggest going back to the Waterfront
I'm interested to know which bits you found especially believable mini mog?
The trouble is I just find the hit scenario makes sense and the robbery story doesn't seem to at all.
If the plan was a simple hijack/robbery which wasn't meant to end in murder (as per the accidental shooting theory) and they both survived and got out of the car unharmed, you can bet they would have reported it. Now, people have said these things don't get solved etc, yet Dewani had Tongo's contact details, he also only had to mention the R10K gift/trip that Tongo was supposedly organising to the police, for Tongo to be a suspect instantly. Tongo would have considered this surely. This was not a random hijack, this was due to a known sum of money SD would be carrying. He would have been implicated straight away so why would he take that risk?
Not only that but Tongo went straight to police didn't he, why on earth would he do that if he had planned it all?
I've responded to Geelong's post before, but I've been wondering something else, BIB. To what extent would Tongo, sitting in jail in Malmesbury and as far as I know without a lawyer now, know about Dewani's plea statement? It was dated 3 October 2014.
Those of us who follow the trial closely online read and refer to the actual document, but details like the washing versus sunbathing wouldn't have been reported in the news.
The bit about the list of restaurants the hotel transfer service would take them, and if they wanted to go anywhere else he would need another taxi. If that's correct I can understand him wanting Tongo's number. In case they wanted to do something different.
And the fact he told them about all the arguments they had been having beforehand but they had got past that. So he was saying look we have had problems but please don't think we spent the whole honeymoon like that.
I don't know really, he waffles a lot lol! Just some of it seemed genuine enough. Some of it was over explained though I thought.
For a lively and controversial topic, I think it's amazing that we got to #6814 without moderator intervention. Well done to most of the posters here.
http://carteblanche.dstv.com/player/700834/
As far as I understand, one expert says, that there is enough circumstantial evidence not to discharge the case.
The other expert says, that the state failed to provide evidence to convict SD and they cannot expect SD to do so by incriminating himself.
You see, now that rang particularly untrue with me as someone who knows the hotel and the area very well.
Talking to the families, Shrien Dewani casually made it sound as though the hotel presents guests with a limited list of approved restaurants they will drive you to for free, and if you don't want to go to one of those then you're on your own. In addition, he spoke as though the suggestion to go out of town actually came from the hotel staff!
What the hotel in fact offers is a "luxury chauffeur transfer service within the City Bowl (10km/ 6 mile radius) including Kirstenbosch Botanical Gardens". At the time of the murder I recall checking the hotel's site and it was 20km. But let's call it 10km.
Have a look at this lovely map of Cape Town (click on it, it's fun, even for cartophobes.)
The V&A is bottom left (spot the Cape Grace hotel) where there are about 80 eating destinations from 5 star hotels and world-class restaurants right through to takeaways. Follow the Atlantic coast along the bottom of the map, with restaurants all the way until you reach Camps Bay (7km away) which has a concentration of dozens of excellent restaurants on the beach.
Or head into the city bowl, the area surrounded by Table Mountain, Lions Head, Signal Hill. The whole of the city centre is well within a 10 km radius.
The hotel mentions Kirstenbosch Gardens as being a free trip within the radius. If you look at the far left of Table Mountain, it's on the other side below the mountain under the clouds. That's in what we call the southern suburbs, where there are yet more great restaurants, all though the options begin getting a little sparser compared to the density of town and the coast.
Now look at the top right of the map and see the start of Strand, about 45/50km away. Somerset West and 96 Winery Road are way off the top of the map, also about 45/50km away.
Shrien said in the family meeting:
"So I asked his mobile number - so that when we need a driver... Okay, it was included in the hotel package - if you go to one of their restaurants a transfer to that restaurant was included. So they had a list of the restaurants where one of the hotel's BMWs will take you, but when you went somewhere else then you needed to hire a taxi."
See what he did there?
Now listen to his own words:
"So we got reception to book this 96 Wine Route [96 Winery Road in Somerset West 50km away]. We asked them for a romantic restaurant and they had like a, the vegetarian menu was not too great, but they gave me a menu and it had old South African cottage style, so we booked that. That's when I called or texted to say come in the evening."
He is trying to make the family believe that out of hundreds and hundreds of restaurants in the 10km radius, the only romantic restaurant the hotel could come up with was 50km away. Without googling right now I, someone not in the tourism industry, could name 10 wonderfully romantic restaurants within walking distance and another 20 within close driving distance.
Preyen then asks, "But why did they not send a hotel car?"
Shrien: "Cause that is not on their list, cause it is so far out, so, um, that is when I, we, called him."
What I don't understand is, why SD wanted to go to a restaurant, for which you have to drive for 30min in the night. On that route, there is nothing to see - except townships.
Well, I guess the arguments before honeymoon were hardly deniable, because he knew, that Sneha would probably know about it.
Yes, that's right.
Some of it is surely genuine.
The over explanations are some kind of amusing.
In SD's plea the first recommendation comes from Tongo and he asks the concierge by himself - which was probably not deniable by cctv evidence and staff witness.
Anni gives only her "ok" to it.
It's important to remember that every story about the conversations in the car that led to the two detours, every changing story, has come from Shrien Dewani.
Tongo was also in the vehicle obviously, but his statement and testimony tell no story about any conversation regarding the detours. Tongo just describes driving to Gugulethu as agreed.
So an analysis like this can't say "...it was Tongo's suggestion to go straight back to the Waterfront...?" but should rather be that on this date Dewani was still trying to paint the picture that Anni, who obviously can't correct him, was the one who wanted the second detour.
It's the changing locus of decision in Dewani's lies that I've posted about before.
So what was this date? It was Monday 22 November. On the previous Tuesday to Thursday the hitmen and MM had been arrested and Dewani was telling the "Anni's suggestion/insistance" stories. On the weekend Tongo had handed himself in and by the Sunday night signed his plea statement implicating Dewani.
On the Monday, the same day as the family meeting, Tongo appeared in court charged with the murder. If you read news reports from this day it's clear that the police hadn't yet mentioned that Shrien was implicated, but the media was speculating and Clifford was in overdrive denying.
In fact it's clear that the police were trying to keep Dewani complacent by not yet disclosing Tongo's revelations, in the hope of getting him to return to South Africa of his own accord. Its seems they tried two failed ruses, the ID line-up and jewellery identification.
So on the day of the family meeting I'm sure Dewani was pretty scared of what Tongo may have told the police, but his story to the family on that day remained what it had been for the previous eight days, that the locus of the decision was Anni.
It was not long after this that his fake descriptions of the conversations shifted the blame onto Tongo, with Anni just saying "whatever".