I've just been reading about Hungary's fence building exercise. The government instructed the army to be in charge of building it but also mobilised prisoners and the jobless to help out.
Convicts receive a small portion of the wages paid for their work; the rest goes to cover prison costs.
The state has also mobilized unemployed people who collect government benefits through a public works program. "Public works people have an obligation to work, otherwise they could lose their benefits," said Marta Varga, a spokeswoman for the Csongrad county government offices. They have been paid at a monthly wage of around $220 for work on the fence, around half Hungary's minimum wage. She said no one had refused.
Can you imagine if that was here and the unemployed were asked to help build a wall. What do you think the answer would be?
There is far less sense of entitlement in Hungary, that's for sure. And unemployment benefit rules are quite tough, apparently:
The payment of job seeker’s allowance is based on 60 percent of the claimant’s average salary over the previous four years, but it is capped and cannot be more than the official minimum wage. Job seeker's allowance can be received for a minimum of 36 and a maximum of 90 days. For every 10 days the claimant worked in the previous five years they are entitled to one day of allowance. Anyone who worked for 360 days in the previous five years would therefore be entitled to 36 days.
Half true, but nonetheless, it doesn't matter how many times you or anyone else says it, or refers to any past conflict or colonial rule (irrelevant of the conflict instigators or ruling nations geography). What is playing out is crazy for everyone it touches, crazy how it has been politically fuelled and crazy for the woefully inadequate management. No matter how compassionate, or uncompassionate the observers are (ie: us) it's not going to end, nor begin to end calmly for as long as the open door, freedom to walk anywhere approach is continued. This to me is obvious, as has each negative stage of this debarkle also been equally obvious.
I was simply replying to another poster about the current conflicts in Middle Eastern countries.
Whatever fraction of the truth, the West certainly has contributed and only because of our need for oil.
I don't agree with anyone coming to Europe this way being allowed to stay. I lay the blame firmly on the EU ignoring this for months and the world's blindness to the desperate funding needs of refugee camps. Merkel completely losing the plot was the cherry on the top.
There is far less sense of entitlement in Hungary, that's for sure. And unemployment benefit rules are quite tough, apparently:
The payment of job seeker’s allowance is based on 60 percent of the claimant’s average salary over the previous four years, but it is capped and cannot be more than the official minimum wage. Job seeker's allowance can be received for a minimum of 36 and a maximum of 90 days. For every 10 days the claimant worked in the previous five years they are entitled to one day of allowance. Anyone who worked for 360 days in the previous five years would therefore be entitled to 36 days.
Wow ! very interesting .... wonder how it will go down here ?
We never stepped fully through in the first place really. Bloody island apes we are.
Someone posted a good few days ago (maybe on a different EU thread)....... that the British have a snapping point for which the line seems further away than for other nations, we are approaching that line and one thing about the British, once crossed, there will be no going back. I thought that was quite apt (and British).
Talking of snapping points, some of the lines from this poem by G K Chesterton started running through my mind the other day...
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet…
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet…
And the face of the King’s Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey’s fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale…
They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.
We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
There is far less sense of entitlement in Hungary, that's for sure. And unemployment benefit rules are quite tough, apparently:
The payment of job seeker’s allowance is based on 60 percent of the claimant’s average salary over the previous four years, but it is capped and cannot be more than the official minimum wage. Job seeker's allowance can be received for a minimum of 36 and a maximum of 90 days. For every 10 days the claimant worked in the previous five years they are entitled to one day of allowance. Anyone who worked for 360 days in the previous five years would therefore be entitled to 36 days.
Petition
Support Hungary's right to make its own sovereign decisions. A member state is being bullied for protecting its borders, by larger EU member states. Every Govt has to 2 core functions across history, or form of Gov 1) protect its borders/ people and 2) mantain law & order. Hungary has to be respected.
More details
EU (Germany and its bullying friends) is threatening Hungary with fines, humiliation and more. As a citizen of the UK, this sets a bad example for all other countries and makes me fear that one day we will be bullied by Germany/ EU. We need to be clear that the parliament will always defend our rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108843
Petition
Support Hungary's right to make its own sovereign decisions. A member state is being bullied for protecting its borders, by larger EU member states. Every Govt has to 2 core functions across history, or form of Gov 1) protect its borders/ people and 2) mantain law & order. Hungary has to be respected.
More details
EU (Germany and its bullying friends) is threatening Hungary with fines, humiliation and more. As a citizen of the UK, this sets a bad example for all other countries and makes me fear that one day we will be bullied by Germany/ EU. We need to be clear that the parliament will always defend our rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108843
It is designed not to be abused like our system is. In Hungary the welfare system is tough because they only support those with a genuine need. There is no benefit lifestyle like we have here, no one is proud or happy to be on benefits. It makes sense that the people on the dole have to work for it otherwise there is no encouragement to get off the dole. It's meant to provide for basic daily living, like the Hungarian system does, rather than fund holidays and big screen TVs with Sky HD.
If benefit claimants or prisoners were made to build a fence here then some people would scream it's against human rights and the whole project would be forced to be outsourced to some Chinese company, ending up way over budget and 3 years late, marred with industrial disputes along the way. in Hungary they don't have much time for that and just get on with things.
Talking of snapping points, some of the lines from this poem by G K Chesterton started running through my mind the other day...
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet…
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet…
And the face of the King’s Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey’s fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale…
They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.
We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
I was thinking last night about Malliday's post on today's elites and intellectuals assuming for themselves the authority to speak for Joe Public. It brought to my mind what happened when the *plebs* had had a bellyful enough of their rhetoric: the French and Russian Revolutions - and how the elites and intellectuals of those days lived in fear that such anger will be exported to these shores. And then you post this poem. Thing is, I doubt that the Brits will ever explode in bloody frustration as the French and the Russians did. The nearest we ever came to do that was the English Civil War, but then that war was never about up-ending a whole constitution so thoroughly and completely. Rather, as the poem suggests, the English mark their *revolutionary* rioting in a more restful way: it is carefully considered, the opts weighed, and then executed without fanfare, leaving the elites and intellectuals stratching their heads and wondering how on earth did this happen. Thing is, people were telling them. While the elites and intellectuals heard their words, they just chose not to listen to them. Scary times
Petition
Support Hungary's right to make its own sovereign decisions. A member state is being bullied for protecting its borders, by larger EU member states. Every Govt has to 2 core functions across history, or form of Gov 1) protect its borders/ people and 2) mantain law & order. Hungary has to be respected.
More details
EU (Germany and its bullying friends) is threatening Hungary with fines, humiliation and more. As a citizen of the UK, this sets a bad example for all other countries and makes me fear that one day we will be bullied by Germany/ EU. We need to be clear that the parliament will always defend our rights. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108843
Talking of snapping points, some of the lines from this poem by G K Chesterton started running through my mind the other day...
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet…
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet…
And the face of the King’s Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey’s fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale…
They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.
We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
I was nervous about posting on this thread, been addicted to it and lurking for days but work keeps getting in the way so every time I think of something the conversation has moved on by the time I get home!
I was nervous about posting on this thread, been addicted to it and lurking for days but work keeps getting in the way so every time I think of something the conversation has moved on by the time I get home!
Anyway, anyone got any peas?
Well, i'd say your prophetic injection has been a good start.
Comments
There is far less sense of entitlement in Hungary, that's for sure. And unemployment benefit rules are quite tough, apparently:
The payment of job seeker’s allowance is based on 60 percent of the claimant’s average salary over the previous four years, but it is capped and cannot be more than the official minimum wage. Job seeker's allowance can be received for a minimum of 36 and a maximum of 90 days. For every 10 days the claimant worked in the previous five years they are entitled to one day of allowance. Anyone who worked for 360 days in the previous five years would therefore be entitled to 36 days.
I was simply replying to another poster about the current conflicts in Middle Eastern countries.
Whatever fraction of the truth, the West certainly has contributed and only because of our need for oil.
I don't agree with anyone coming to Europe this way being allowed to stay. I lay the blame firmly on the EU ignoring this for months and the world's blindness to the desperate funding needs of refugee camps. Merkel completely losing the plot was the cherry on the top.
Das ist so wahr.....
*"Kaput" springs to mind*
Wow ! very interesting .... wonder how it will go down here ?
Maybe you should have read the post I was responding to?
Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,
For we are the people of England, that never has spoken yet…
You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:
Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet…
And the face of the King’s Servants grew greater than the King:
He tricked them, and they trapped him, and stood round him in a ring.
The new grave lords closed round him, that had eaten the abbey’s fruits,
And the men of the new religion, with their Bibles in their boots,
We saw their shoulders moving, to menace or discuss,
And some were pure and some were vile; but none took heed of us.
We saw the King as they killed him, and his face was proud and pale;
And a few men talked of freedom, while England talked of ale…
They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,
Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.
They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;
They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.
And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,
Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.
We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,
Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.
It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,
Our wrath come after Russia’s wrath and our wrath be the worst.
It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest
God’s scorn for all men governing. It may be beer is best.
But we are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet.
Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
That sounds harsh.
Minimum wages in Hungary
105,000 HUF (€350) per month for unskilled labour, 122,000 HUF (€405) per month for skilled labour
Petition
Support Hungary's right to make its own sovereign decisions.
A member state is being bullied for protecting its borders, by larger EU member states. Every Govt has to 2 core functions across history, or form of Gov 1) protect its borders/ people and 2) mantain law & order. Hungary has to be respected.
More details
EU (Germany and its bullying friends) is threatening Hungary with fines, humiliation and more. As a citizen of the UK, this sets a bad example for all other countries and makes me fear that one day we will be bullied by Germany/ EU. We need to be clear that the parliament will always defend our rights.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108843
Signed. Fat lot of good it will do though.
It's all relative.
It is designed not to be abused like our system is. In Hungary the welfare system is tough because they only support those with a genuine need. There is no benefit lifestyle like we have here, no one is proud or happy to be on benefits. It makes sense that the people on the dole have to work for it otherwise there is no encouragement to get off the dole. It's meant to provide for basic daily living, like the Hungarian system does, rather than fund holidays and big screen TVs with Sky HD.
If benefit claimants or prisoners were made to build a fence here then some people would scream it's against human rights and the whole project would be forced to be outsourced to some Chinese company, ending up way over budget and 3 years late, marred with industrial disputes along the way. in Hungary they don't have much time for that and just get on with things.
I was thinking last night about Malliday's post on today's elites and intellectuals assuming for themselves the authority to speak for Joe Public. It brought to my mind what happened when the *plebs* had had a bellyful enough of their rhetoric: the French and Russian Revolutions - and how the elites and intellectuals of those days lived in fear that such anger will be exported to these shores. And then you post this poem. Thing is, I doubt that the Brits will ever explode in bloody frustration as the French and the Russians did. The nearest we ever came to do that was the English Civil War, but then that war was never about up-ending a whole constitution so thoroughly and completely. Rather, as the poem suggests, the English mark their *revolutionary* rioting in a more restful way: it is carefully considered, the opts weighed, and then executed without fanfare, leaving the elites and intellectuals stratching their heads and wondering how on earth did this happen. Thing is, people were telling them. While the elites and intellectuals heard their words, they just chose not to listen to them. Scary times
Roll on EU referendum...
Signed.
Great, prescient poem.
Anyway, anyone got any peas?
Where's all this money coming from, I thought we were skint?
Bit like how there always seems to be council houses available for people who come from overseas.
You want prescient see "The Camp of the Saints".
Well, i'd say your prophetic injection has been a good start.
I presume it will come out of the foreign aid budget.
i dunno about this link - removed.
Really:o i thought they were all peaceful dr's dentists and poets. Im shocked.
I've removed that link cos it gets a bit too much Alex Jones for me to be honest.
Others elsewhere in world will get less from UK. Any major catastrophe like earthquake / hurricane is going to have to look elsewhere.
Like sending millions to China to help them play football !
http://www.cityam.com/224987/george-osborne-criticised-handing-3m-taxpayers-money-china-football-programmes