She's only done 8 episodes. Must we talk about her going so soon. I really like her. Very disappointed her and Matt aren't going to get to continue what I thought was a very good team.
I hope she hangs around for at least all of Series 8
Also once she was already in the Doctor's time stream and the Doctor came to save her she told him to get out once she found out that his time stream was collapsing. She didn't selfishly think about herself first (as most of us would have probably done), but about the Doctor. I'm still not quite sure whether I consider that a good or a bad thing.
Exactly. I find this quite interesting and I think there should be a conversation between the two about this. Why she chose to sacrifice herself for the Doctor, who she's only known for a couple of months. If this doesn't happen in the 50th Anniversary episode I can see this conversation taking place just before the doctor regenerates...
But I think Amy and Clara both have very sparse, empty lives and their reasons for travelling with the Doctor - as you say - is because of some wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey thing. And once that something is resolved, it makes it hard to understand why they are kept on as a companion.
I think this rings very true for Clara, (although we won't be able to really tell until we see her in a post-arc story) but in Amy's case, couldn't be wronger. She got plenty of emotionally driven stories, and now she's finally getting to explore the universe with the person she's had at the centre of her world for longer than she's known he existed. Her story makes perfect sense - story-wise, and emotionally.
The main problem with Amy and Rory's story, is that they carried on for a full eight episodes after they'd left the TARDIS, and it meant they didn't feel like proper companions any more. They were sort of kind of companions, as a sort of kind of coda to a story that was already basically over. Completely irrelevant to their particular puzzle box, though.
She's only done 8 episodes. Must we talk about her going so soon. I really like her. Very disappointed her and Matt aren't going to get to continue what I thought was a very good team.
I hope she hangs around for at least all of Series 8
I think this rings very true for Clara, (although we won't be able to really tell until we see her in a post-arc story) but in Amy's case, couldn't be wronger. She got plenty of emotionally driven stories, and now she's finally getting to explore the universe with the person she's had at the centre of her world for longer than she's known he existed. Her story makes perfect sense - story-wise, and emotionally.
To be fair, I was talking specifically about their lives prior to joining the Doctor. And I do think Amy's life was very sparse when she first met the Doctor (empty house, no parents etc) and even when her parents popped back into reality, we only saw them the once. I just never really believed in/engaged with her life prior to her first meeting with the Doctor. And, for me at least, its hard to invest in a character unless I really believe in them.
I just think that RTD puts lots of heart into his companions and was very good at creating an entire life for them prior to them travelling with the Doctor. This just made them seem more real and, as a result, I cared for them more when they were travelling with the Doctor and was heartbroken for each when they left.
By comparison I felt like Amy and Clara were created in a fairly cold and clinical way to fulfil a storyline, first and foremost. A few montages and the use of a couple of child actors doesn't work nearly as well as bringing the Doctor crashing right into the middle of their lives and their families.
As a result, I never really felt an emotional link with Amy no matter what happened to her during her adventures with the Doctor. And I'm already in the same place with Clara.
I guess for me the main difference is that Rose, Martha and Donna travelled with the Doctor because they had something missing from their lives. Amy and Clara travel with him because they have something missing from them as people.
To be fair, I was talking specifically about their lives prior to joining the Doctor. And I do think Amy's life was very sparse when she first met the Doctor (empty house, no parents etc) and even when her parents popped back into reality, we only saw them the once. I just never really believed in/engaged with her life prior to her first meeting with the Doctor. And, for me at least, its hard to invest in a character unless I really believe in them.
I just think that RTD puts lots of heart into his companions and was very good at creating an entire life for them prior to them travelling with the Doctor. This just made them seem more real and, as a result, I cared for them more when they were travelling with the Doctor and was heartbroken for each when they left.
By comparison I felt like Amy and Clara were created in a fairly cold and clinical way to fulfil a storyline, first and foremost. A few montages and the use of a couple of child actors doesn't work nearly as well as bringing the Doctor crashing right into the middle of their lives and their families.
As a result, I never really felt an emotional link with Amy no matter what happened to her during her adventures with the Doctor. And I'm already in the same place with Clara.
I guess for me the main difference is that Rose, Martha and Donna travelled with the Doctor because they had something missing from their lives. Amy and Clara travel with him because they have something missing from them as people.
Yeah. right. I have trouble seeing any difference between the character of Rose at the start of series 1 and Amy at the start of series 5 (well for me personally Amy actually manages to have a bit more personality than Rose even with a crack in her wall eating away at her life). Rose is a shop girl, Amy is a kissogram. Rose gets an annoying (albeit caring) mother while Amy gets an aunt who doesn't sound like a very nice person so thanks God we didn't get to see her (unlike with Donna's mother who IMO was a character who was an offense to mothers everywhere). Both get looser boyfriends, but at least the story of Amy's one eventually goes somewhere and there's some point to him being on board of the TARDIS other than the Doctor and the companion being mean to him. There's no need for us to see Amy's parents or other relatives regularly, because she created her own family for herself with Rory and the Doctor. Not every family has to be related by blood to be a family.
And not everyone's life is defined by people to whom they are related by blood.
When I said Clara should die it's not because I dislike the character; far from it actually, I like Clara, she just needs a bit more characterisation. I want Clara to die because we've not yet had a companion of the modern series die and it's something that should be explored.
Oh for God's sake. I understand that a lot of you don't like the character but shut the fudge up with 'There's nowhere to go with her now' just because Moffat used her as an arc doesn't mean she ends there. I do think that at times she wasn't written very well but I don't understand the hate for her. Also, Amy wasn't the main arc of series 5, stop saying Moffat can't write companions, not all of us hate them. I'm pretty sure she travelled with the Doctor because she enjoyed it.
Bless this post. All she needs is just more development/slightly better writing and a few more emotional talks with the Doctor.
So "Clara is an extremely smart girl and she knows it" doesn't make her sound rather cocky or arrogant then? It things like those character traits that make her unlikeable in my mind. She needs a heck of a lot of character development to make her likeable in my mind.
The fact I believe there's nowhere to go after the S7 pt 2 arc was done is simply because we don't have other sides to Clara apart from that mystery. That is now done. Without these other sides, she's just a blank canvas again now....it shouldn't be that way for a companion whose been in as many episode as her....it really shouldn't.
So "Clara is an extremely smart girl and she knows it" doesn't make her sound rather cocky or arrogant then? It things like those character traits that make her unlikeable in my mind. She needs a heck of a lot of character development to make her likeable in my mind.
The fact I believe there's nowhere to go after the S7 pt 2 arc was done is simply because we don't have other sides to Clara apart from that mystery. That is now done. Without these other sides, she's just a blank canvas again now....it shouldn't be that way for a companion whose been in as many episode as her....it really shouldn't.
Why shouldn't it? Are you the show runner? No.
And, even though you probably won't believe me, the link I thought I was commenting on talked about that fact that people are saying there's nothing normal about her compared to the likes of Rose and Donna when they've done things equally abnormal.
And no. Knowing you're clever isn't arrogant or cocky. There's nothing wrong with being aware of your own intelligence, especially if it makes her confident.
And, even though you probably won't believe me, the link I thought I was commenting on talked about that fact that people are saying there's nothing normal about her compared to the likes of Rose and Donna when they've done things equally abnormal.
And no. Knowing you're clever isn't arrogant or cocky. There's nothing wrong with being aware of your own intelligence, especially if it makes her confident.
Because characters have got to be a little bit more than just there to drive a plot. The fact she's just that blank canvas now means her continued inclusion utterly pointless in my mind. There has to be more for the character...there just has to be....as a big fan on Moff's era (my personal favourite) it is the first real time where I am questioning his writing....
Well, knowing you're clever can make you arrogant and cocky,,,cockiness is certainly there with Oswin and it flows into modern Clara too. Her lack of proper conversations too hardly helps this arrogance I get from her....it's say something witty that boosts her ego and then go sauntering off unaffected by anything. There's just a distinct lack of humanity about her....
So "Clara is an extremely smart girl and she knows it" doesn't make her sound rather cocky or arrogant then? It things like those character traits that make her unlikeable in my mind. She needs a heck of a lot of character development to make her likeable in my mind.
Does Clara know she is smart? She always seems excited to find out new stuff, like when all of a sudden she knew about computers. I see Clara as finding her way through the adventures with The Doctor, like a maze. Which way next? Then again, Clara remembers things along the way, so that must be important right. Clara, an important, impossible girl. Not a lot is explained, so she tends to ask questions and then you find people asking questions about Clara. We know who she is now, the girl who jumped into the Doctor's timestream to save The Doctor. Will she get home, wherever home is or will she be with The Doctor ever more?
So "Clara is an extremely smart girl and she knows it" doesn't make her sound rather cocky or arrogant then? It things like those character traits that make her unlikeable in my mind. She needs a heck of a lot of character development to make her likeable in my mind.
There's nothing wrong with knowing and appreciating you're smart. As it said in the post, you don't need to think you're worthless to be likeable. It's not like she's running around boasting proclaiming 'I'm so smart everyone look at me' that's what I'd call arrogant.
We haven't had many companions who have been out right called intelligent on the show - Martha was a medical student but Rose, Amy and Donna were shown to be intelligent through the Doctor as he, sort of, brought it out of them. A lot of people, on a different note, confuse smugness with being comfortable with yourself and in your surroundings.
According to some people, the only 'likeable' characters are emotional and unstable wrecks with no self worth or confidence until they are magically transformed by the Doctor. Since all the usually positive traits of confidence, intelligence and happiness are translated into arrogance, cockiness and smugness.
We will see more of Clara now and more insight on her through no doubt Clara talking with the dr. The Dr was very drawn to her and caring however she was a mystery to him so he didn't know what to expect from her and Clara was getting to know him. Therefore both we reserved to some extent. I am sure now will see a much more closer, deeper relationship and as a result more character development for Clara. I think she is on track to be the most successful companion of the new Who. Shame about Matt not being her doctor during the character development.
I don't know how she should leave...still! It could be some time. But more important is what they do with her now. With the original mystery now solved the interest and intrigue will have to come from the character herself and how she interacts with the doctor. Without an enigma to support the character this is key. There has to be some development of her that is new and interesting. Could she be the first companion to really challenge the Doctor and maybe even turn against him? Its going to be difficult for her not just become a fairly forgettable companion unless they take a chance. Otherwise as someone else said, she is just a night watchman, a placeholder until they can find a reason to bring someone else on board.
I get muddled with what's true and what's half truth and what's forum myth and rumour so can anyone confirm if it is certain we see her in S8 or is it possible she leaves with Matt? How binding is her contract and is it possible in light of recent events they decide to get rid of her?
I just never really believed in/engaged with her life prior to her first meeting with the Doctor. And, for me at least, its hard to invest in a character unless I really believe in them.
I might point you at this and suggest that maybe, that time around, you weren't the intended audience. Wouldn't it be cool if, when discussing who'll be the 14th Doctor, Laura_Amanda's son was joining in ?
Harking back to the first page of this thread, where people were mentioning that the companions were more 'storyline' than 'companion', I would generally have to agree with that.
Amy was set up as a hugely promising character at the start of Series 5 - she had emotional issues, and ended up being a kissogram. These elements were ultimately thrown in for shock value, as she slowly became a stroppy, hard-to-impress companion who was wrapped up in the plot of that particular series. I think it a shame, slightly, as Karen Gillan is a fantastic actress. Despite really beginning to shine as an emotive actress in Series 6, the focus shifted towards River - that was okay by me as I rather like the character, but with the additional fact that Amy was now joined by Rory it made for a rather awkward dynamic, with not enough time to flesh out due to the focus on River and the Silence. Ultimately, Amy was there to serve the Series 5 and 6 plots, so come Series 7 it felt like we were just waiting for the inevitable exit, rather than it being a character-driven departure. Granted, Amy's final scene was a very moving one and Moffat handled it brilliantly (even if the episode is a bit shaky as a whole) but her tenure could have amounted to so much more if she'd been given the chance to resonate with the audience.
I've mentioned Amy a lot in a thread about Clara, but my reason is that we are at that crucial point at which things could go either way. Clara was even more arc-driven than Amy was, and now that that arc is more-or-less out of the way it will be interesting to see where Moffat goes with her character in Series 8. Fortunately, there's no husband or boyfriend to get in the way at the moment - I think repeating that dynamic would be a mistake, particularly as Clara hasn't been fleshed out very much at all so far...
And that's my problem with answering the question in this thread. Clara as we know her has been in eight episodes - she's encompassed a story arc across a single series so far. Her exit doesn't feel like it should be any time soon, and she should at least see out Series 8, if not Series 9 as well if things go well for the character. She feels like she is just starting out, really.
When they do decide to "retire" her, they could make it "interesting" by discovering that they have to kill-off ALL of the millions of versions of her that were scattered through the Doctor's timeline (just leaving the really "important" ones - so he's safe, obviously).
Not only would we get to see her die a million times, each death could be different and increasingly painful - like some timey-wimey Freddie Kruger film.
And back in the real world - they'll probably just have her "go home" to look after the annoying kids.
Comments
I hope she hangs around for at least all of Series 8
Exactly. I find this quite interesting and I think there should be a conversation between the two about this. Why she chose to sacrifice herself for the Doctor, who she's only known for a couple of months. If this doesn't happen in the 50th Anniversary episode I can see this conversation taking place just before the doctor regenerates...
The main problem with Amy and Rory's story, is that they carried on for a full eight episodes after they'd left the TARDIS, and it meant they didn't feel like proper companions any more. They were sort of kind of companions, as a sort of kind of coda to a story that was already basically over. Completely irrelevant to their particular puzzle box, though.
She's gonna be in Series 8.:)
To be fair, I was talking specifically about their lives prior to joining the Doctor. And I do think Amy's life was very sparse when she first met the Doctor (empty house, no parents etc) and even when her parents popped back into reality, we only saw them the once. I just never really believed in/engaged with her life prior to her first meeting with the Doctor. And, for me at least, its hard to invest in a character unless I really believe in them.
I just think that RTD puts lots of heart into his companions and was very good at creating an entire life for them prior to them travelling with the Doctor. This just made them seem more real and, as a result, I cared for them more when they were travelling with the Doctor and was heartbroken for each when they left.
By comparison I felt like Amy and Clara were created in a fairly cold and clinical way to fulfil a storyline, first and foremost. A few montages and the use of a couple of child actors doesn't work nearly as well as bringing the Doctor crashing right into the middle of their lives and their families.
As a result, I never really felt an emotional link with Amy no matter what happened to her during her adventures with the Doctor. And I'm already in the same place with Clara.
I guess for me the main difference is that Rose, Martha and Donna travelled with the Doctor because they had something missing from their lives. Amy and Clara travel with him because they have something missing from them as people.
Yeah. right. I have trouble seeing any difference between the character of Rose at the start of series 1 and Amy at the start of series 5 (well for me personally Amy actually manages to have a bit more personality than Rose even with a crack in her wall eating away at her life). Rose is a shop girl, Amy is a kissogram. Rose gets an annoying (albeit caring) mother while Amy gets an aunt who doesn't sound like a very nice person so thanks God we didn't get to see her (unlike with Donna's mother who IMO was a character who was an offense to mothers everywhere). Both get looser boyfriends, but at least the story of Amy's one eventually goes somewhere and there's some point to him being on board of the TARDIS other than the Doctor and the companion being mean to him. There's no need for us to see Amy's parents or other relatives regularly, because she created her own family for herself with Rory and the Doctor. Not every family has to be related by blood to be a family.
And not everyone's life is defined by people to whom they are related by blood.
Gang-banged to death by Cybermen...it's the way she would want to go...you will be assimilated...oh yeah...
...or non-of-the-above...
use your words
Bless this post. All she needs is just more development/slightly better writing and a few more emotional talks with the Doctor.
So "Clara is an extremely smart girl and she knows it" doesn't make her sound rather cocky or arrogant then?
The fact I believe there's nowhere to go after the S7 pt 2 arc was done is simply because we don't have other sides to Clara apart from that mystery. That is now done. Without these other sides, she's just a blank canvas again now....it shouldn't be that way for a companion whose been in as many episode as her....it really shouldn't.
Why shouldn't it? Are you the show runner? No.
And, even though you probably won't believe me, the link I thought I was commenting on talked about that fact that people are saying there's nothing normal about her compared to the likes of Rose and Donna when they've done things equally abnormal.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/01785271eca1929735c0fc21107ce0cd/tumblr_mnw4syMWrr1rtmrfeo1_500.jpg
And no. Knowing you're clever isn't arrogant or cocky. There's nothing wrong with being aware of your own intelligence, especially if it makes her confident.
Because characters have got to be a little bit more than just there to drive a plot. The fact she's just that blank canvas now means her continued inclusion utterly pointless in my mind. There has to be more for the character...there just has to be....as a big fan on Moff's era (my personal favourite) it is the first real time where I am questioning his writing....
Well, knowing you're clever can make you arrogant and cocky,,,cockiness is certainly there with Oswin and it flows into modern Clara too. Her lack of proper conversations too hardly helps this arrogance I get from her....it's say something witty that boosts her ego and then go sauntering off unaffected by anything. There's just a distinct lack of humanity about her....
There's nothing wrong with knowing and appreciating you're smart. As it said in the post, you don't need to think you're worthless to be likeable. It's not like she's running around boasting proclaiming 'I'm so smart everyone look at me'
We haven't had many companions who have been out right called intelligent on the show - Martha was a medical student but Rose, Amy and Donna were shown to be intelligent through the Doctor as he, sort of, brought it out of them. A lot of people, on a different note, confuse smugness with being comfortable with yourself and in your surroundings.
According to some people, the only 'likeable' characters are emotional and unstable wrecks with no self worth or confidence until they are magically transformed by the Doctor. Since all the usually positive traits of confidence, intelligence and happiness are translated into arrogance, cockiness and smugness.
I did in a few posts actually but those were also a good way of summing up my thoughts:D
I get muddled with what's true and what's half truth and what's forum myth and rumour so can anyone confirm if it is certain we see her in S8 or is it possible she leaves with Matt? How binding is her contract and is it possible in light of recent events they decide to get rid of her?
Amy was set up as a hugely promising character at the start of Series 5 - she had emotional issues, and ended up being a kissogram. These elements were ultimately thrown in for shock value, as she slowly became a stroppy, hard-to-impress companion who was wrapped up in the plot of that particular series. I think it a shame, slightly, as Karen Gillan is a fantastic actress. Despite really beginning to shine as an emotive actress in Series 6, the focus shifted towards River - that was okay by me as I rather like the character, but with the additional fact that Amy was now joined by Rory it made for a rather awkward dynamic, with not enough time to flesh out due to the focus on River and the Silence. Ultimately, Amy was there to serve the Series 5 and 6 plots, so come Series 7 it felt like we were just waiting for the inevitable exit, rather than it being a character-driven departure. Granted, Amy's final scene was a very moving one and Moffat handled it brilliantly (even if the episode is a bit shaky as a whole) but her tenure could have amounted to so much more if she'd been given the chance to resonate with the audience.
I've mentioned Amy a lot in a thread about Clara, but my reason is that we are at that crucial point at which things could go either way. Clara was even more arc-driven than Amy was, and now that that arc is more-or-less out of the way it will be interesting to see where Moffat goes with her character in Series 8. Fortunately, there's no husband or boyfriend to get in the way at the moment - I think repeating that dynamic would be a mistake, particularly as Clara hasn't been fleshed out very much at all so far...
And that's my problem with answering the question in this thread. Clara as we know her has been in eight episodes - she's encompassed a story arc across a single series so far. Her exit doesn't feel like it should be any time soon, and she should at least see out Series 8, if not Series 9 as well if things go well for the character. She feels like she is just starting out, really.
Not only would we get to see her die a million times, each death could be different and increasingly painful - like some timey-wimey Freddie Kruger film.
And back in the real world - they'll probably just have her "go home" to look after the annoying kids.