French Freeview in Jersey

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  • IanLIanL Posts: 247
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    As mentioned before SECAM picture quality is probably on par with what you are likely to see with SKY HD. Its so clear and makes PAL look sick and colourless in comparison.

    SECAM and PAL are schemes for colour encoding of analogue video. Post "digital changeover", they have no relevance.

    Differences in quality experienced with digital TV would most likely depend on the degree of compression that each broadcaster employs..Getting more channels into a mux will require greater compression, and there is a quality price to pay,
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    Jersey_boy wrote: »
    I can receive 20 or so FTA French TV Channels in Jersey, and no doubt in other islands also.

    I think also, depending on where you live in the UK (south-east england) you should also pick up these stations if you have a french tv aerial.

    Channels I get include TF1, France 2-5, M6, Arte, Direct8, W9, NT1, NRJ12, iTele, BFMtv, Paris Premier, TPS Star, Canal +, TMC, Gulli and LCP

    As mentioned before SECAM picture quality is probably on par with what you are likely to see with SKY HD. Its so clear and makes PAL look sick and colourless in comparison.
    I am receiving most of the French TV stations today in Brighton on my Sony Bravia set. Unfortunately many are coded, eg Eurosport and Paris Premiere. My antenna is vertical and pointing towards Whitehawk Hill and the French channels are between 801 and 848 on the Freeview system.
    I usually get the French tV when French FM appears in Band 2 also.

    Just a few questions for Brightonelectri-

    As far as I understand, vertical polarity is used for local relays so I presume that your aerial's primary function is to receive English Freeview from Whitehawk Hill and that it is just a bonus that it is able to pick up French too? My aerial was installed specifically for French and it is horizontally mounted.

    I too have a Sony Bravia and it can not only pick up the French HD channels but it is extremely useful for the dual language soundtrack facility when watching English language films on Arte (R6 - channel 24) or Arte HD (R4 - Channel 49). I can therefore tune in to the English soundtrack by pressing the audio button continously on the bottom right of my R/C to switch beyween French, German and English, when available. Just this week they showed Twelve Angry Men - excellent. It's all top quality stuff like this on Arte- and absolutely free. :) In most cases, they even repeat the film again a few days later in case you missed it, either after midnight or about lunchtime.

    I agree with you that French TV reception is overall better quality than English. I recall that was also the case 20 years ago when I watched French with a SECAM/PAL set. I also notice that whereas if you're watching English HD, the sound level drops compared to the equivalent SD channel, whereas there is no equivalent drop in the sound level when watching French HD.

    I would be interested to know what French transmitter you're picking up from Brighton. In Jersey I receive Rennes St Pern. To give an example, Multiplex R1 (including the public stations like France 2, 3, 5, 0 etc.) is on channel 21 (474.166 Mhz). Even in poor reception areas in Jersey, this is the multiplex that people seem most likely to be able to pick up, if they can pick up anything French at all. Before I had my own French aerial installed, I could even pick up R1 from an English Freeview aerial located in the loft, vertical polarity, pointing towards the St Helier (La Collette) relay. Mind you, that aerial had an amplifier, and when that amplifier broke, we could no longer pick up any French stations. To view the frequency details on your Sony Bravia (in case you don't already know), press the 'Options' button on the R/C then scroll to 'Signal Information'. To find the channel number, I press 'Home' on the R/C and then scroll left to 'Settings', then 'Digital Set up' and then 'Digital Manual Tuning'.

    According to the last research I did, multiplexes R1, R3, R4 and R6 are all transmitted from Rennes St Pern at the same strength (80,000 KW), but R2 (i-Tele, Gulli, France 4 etc.) on channel 40 is only 17,000 KW strength and the weakest is R5 (TF1, France 2 and M6, all in HD) at 8,000 KW strength- but I can still pick up R5 fine here.

    You mentioned Band 2- I have no experience of that. How can I pick that up?

    Re the message from Andrew Haire (6 Sep) - yes, I can confirm that Film 4 is now available in Jersey on Freeview (015).

    Further to one of my earlier posts on here, I can also confirm I have still got DatasystemR7 on Freeview 852 (blank screen). I am fairly certain it is related to Jersey mobile phone networks recently expanding their services, presumably 4G and mobile broadband etc.

    Finally, I can confirm that on 3rd September, there was a great opening which enabled me to watch perfect reception from TV Vendee and Canal Cholet. I think they are based in La Roche sur-Yon, south of Nantes. I recorded some extracts too. :)
  • albertdalbertd Posts: 14,334
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    You mentioned Band 2- I have no experience of that. How can I pick that up?
    Unless it is a reference to something very obscure, Band 2 usually refers to the normal FM radio band from 87-108 MHz.
  • jj20xjj20x Posts: 2,079
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    Further to one of my earlier posts on here, I can also confirm I have still got DatasystemR7 on Freeview 852 (blank screen). I am fairly certain it is related to Jersey mobile phone networks recently expanding their services, presumably 4G and mobile broadband etc.

    A quick Google search shows that this looks like a data service on the French R3 multiplex.

    http://www.en.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=R3&pid=1013&live=1&lang=fr
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    jj20x wrote: »
    A quick Google search shows that this looks like a data service on the French R3 multiplex.

    http://www.en.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=R3&pid=1013&live=1&lang=fr

    Thanks very much for that info. How weird! It is constantly at 100% signal quality (95% strength) here in Jersey, hence why I thought it had to be something to do with a recent expansion by a local mobile phone network, which happened at around the same time that Datasystem R7 appeared. If it is being transmitted from Rennes St Pern then that could account for the signal strength perhaps, I guess, but if it is coming all the way from Paris then I'm a bit baffled. Mind you, it helps to explain why it is showing on Freeview 852, along with the other French stations. It is broadcast on channel 27.
  • BrightonelectriBrightonelectri Posts: 181
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    I bought a Sony Bravia TV in 2008 and it has no trouble adding French digital programmes during high pressure conditions.
    This summer this has included most of the time during August
    Unfortunately it cannot display the HD versions or, obviously, the pay channels.The Sony TV has numerous input-output options and it's built in freeview decoder displays very well.
    The picture quality is excellent and having looked at HD sets
    in stores, I have no desire to upgrade!
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    Yesterday (Thursday 12th December 2013) and the day before provided some of the best long distance TV viewing for me ever. :)Thanks to the unusual atmospheric conditions, I finally succeeded in watching clear TV pictures from the Basque Country (north coast of Spain near the French border) on their equivalent to UK's Freeview - some 400 miles away from me. :o Here is a map showing the distance between Bilbao and Jersey, Channel Islands (410 miles!):

    http://www.airmilescalculator.com/distance/bio-to-jer/

    It was the EiTB Group multiplex on channel 61, consisting of 4 TV stations and 5 radio stations. Their website is here:

    http://www.eitb.com/

    I managed to record several extracts of about 10 minutes each from ETB programmes, including the news and weather. The reception would break up and disappear for considerable spells, before returning just as strong. Just a reminder that I don't have any specialist equipment- only an unamplified wideband rooftop aerial facing southwards. The best pictures happened during daylight hours, which was a bit of a surprise as normally I find that the best long distance reception happens after dark. Maybe it was something to do with the time of year?

    Yesterday I had virtually continuous reception all day from LE MANS TV SARTHE on channel 26, which I've picked up before. On Wednesday, the reception from CANAL CHOLET and TV VENDEE (Nantes area) on channel 56 was also splendid for a time.

    It was interesting to note that my Sony Bravia TV seemed to have more difficulty holding onto the weak ETB signal than my Toshiba RDXV60 Freeview recorder. Very often the pictures were fine on the Toshiba tuner whereas they had broken up on the Sony Bravia. However, only my Sony Bravia managed to download the programme listings on the 'Guide' button though (same with French TV), whereas my Toshiba's programme guide doesn't work with anything other than British Freeview.

    Did anyone else further north in the UK have luck this week picking up these same stations, or others? Is ETB available by satellite? The website says ETBSat is no longer available by satellite. ETBSat is not just a satellite station as the title may suggest because it was one of the 4 Basque TV stations I watched. The others were ETB1, ETB2 and ETB3.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 166
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    That was truly impressive to get Spanish DTV from Jersey. Can I ask Conductor what part of the island you are/were receiving these signals from ?

    Jerseyboy
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    Jersey_boy wrote: »
    That was truly impressive to get Spanish DTV from Jersey. Can I ask Conductor what part of the island you are/were receiving these signals from ?

    Jerseyboy

    I'm situated close to the south coast of St Helier. The aerial is on the roof of a 3-storey building with a partially obstructed sea view. There is no amplifier fitted to the aerial because the Rennes signal is strong enough without the need for one.

    For picking up these distant stations, I think it helps immensely if your TV or video has already previously picked them up and stored the station identities onto a spare programme number. That way, during a renewed period of high pressure, I only have to flick quickly through those channels to see if there is any increase in the signal strength. I already had LMTV Sarthe, TV Vendee, Canal Cholet, TEBEO (Brest) and the Basque ETB multiplex tuned in to free programme numbers from last summer, when I managed to watch all of these except ETB.

    ETB tuned itself in to my TV in the summer but by the time I noticed these new station listings, the reception had vanished. I was therefore really shocked when I flicked through the ETB programme numbers two weeks ago expecting to see the usual blank screen but instead found myself watching excellent pictures from the French-Spanish border region, although they didn't last that long before breaking up. I have some recordings to prove it. If I could just be bothered with the hassle, I might eventually try to upload some clips to the web, but it's not a huge priority. I was lucky I happened to be home during the day and flicking through my channels at a time when the reception peaked. If I had been out, or just not bothered checking these channels then I would have missed it. My only problem is that my TV or video sometimes wipes the memory of these weak stations off the programme numbers. When this happens, it becomes really difficult to find them again, because they are usually only strong enough to tune into for very short periods of time.

    One other thing that may be of use to those watching French TV this Christmas- I know that the following stations definitely have dual audio facilities, which means that they can transmit English-language movies with an English-language soundtrack:

    TF1, France 2, M6, Arte, D8, HD1, Cherie 25 and Numero 23. This is not an exclusive list as I'm sure there are several other dual audio stations, but if you watch out in the programme listings for English-language movies, hopefully (but not always) they should have an English soundtrack available. However, it rarely seems to be the case with English-language documentaries, where they usually overdub the original English narrator's commentary with that of a French one. Also, I find it really annoying that so many new British TV programmes are broadcast on French TV without the original English soundtrack. For example, Cherie 25, which definitely has dual audio facilities, is broadcasting the BBC's Sense and Sensibility tonight, but only with a French soundtrack. Talk about a wasted opportunity! >:( So movies and American TV shows on these stations are likely to have an English soundtrack, but much less likely for British TV shows and TV documentaries.

    France 3 doesn't seem to have dual audio but if and when it broadcasts an English-language movie in its excellent 'Cinema de Minuit' slot (starting at approximately 11.15pm British time every Sunday evening), it nearly always uses the original English soundtrack (V.O.) and provides subtitles for French viewers. Last Sunday I watched The Ziegfeld Girl (US, 1941). Next Sunday they are showing Brigadoon (1954) with Cyd Charisse and Gene Kelly. More details here:

    http://www.france3.fr/emission/brigadoon/diffusion-du-30-12-2013-00h25

    French TNT programme listings are available here, although there are a lot of unwelcome graphics on this page:


    http://www.programme-tv.net/programme/programme-tnt.html

    Arte is broadcasting a couple of Charlie Chaplin two-reelers every lunchtime this week, starting about 11.40am British time. They'll be repeated again in early January. More details of one of the Christmas Day Chaplin broadcasts here:


    http://www.arte.tv/guide/fr/050175-012/charlot-policeman

    Happy viewing this Christmas!
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    Last night (Saturday 15th March 2014) at about 9pm was superb for watching long-distance TV- the first time I've had any success since early December. I was picking up multiple French regions all around the same time. It started with my old favourite LE MANS TV (Sarthe Département) on channel 26, which quickly disappeared and also included CANAL CHOLET (onscreen logo: TLC) and TV VENDEE, both on channel 56, from the Pays de la Loire region.

    The signal strength of TV NORMANDIE on channel 25 was also very strong, at about 60% last night, but unfortunately my aerial is obstructed to the east by the roof of the building where I live so it has never been possible for me to get clear pictures from that region. However, those pointing their aerials towards Normandy from the south coast of England must have presumably had more luck than me last night.

    Most satisfying of all was finally being able to watch TYTELE on channel 57 from the Morbihan Département of Southern Brittany, as this signal has been just too weak for me in the past. I watched a local makeover show that was filmed in a very modern shopping centre called the Centre Nayel in Lorient. The link to this show is here:

    http://www.tebesud.fr/?titre=relooking-made-in-nayel&mode=numEmission&id=58779

    Take note that the onscreen logo for TYTELE is 'TébéSud Direct' - presumably standing for Télé Bretagne Sud - as opposed to Tébéo, which is the neighbouring local station for Finistere Département - Télé Bretagne Ouest on channel 43. I believe the transmitter strength is much stronger for Tébéo, which is why I was surprised that last night I failed to pick up Tébéo but was getting TébéSud Direct at various times for most of the evening, even after 1am when the programme content had ended and they just broadcast a message apologising for the interruption! The distance between my location and Lorient is 116 miles- see the link here:

    http://www.distancefromto.net/between/Jersey/Lorient


    As I was writing this at just after 6pm, I have twice managed to receive very brief pictures from the EiTB multiplex broadcasting on channel 61 from the Basque Country on the north coast of Spain, 400 miles from my location in Jersey. :o

    For example, I watched about a minute of a programme on ETBSAT, displaying the onscreen logo of 'etbk\sat' (with the letter k in green font and the rest in white font). I would therefore suggest that it might be worth trying a manual tune on channel 61 at various times tonight, as you might well be lucky and manage to pick it up from the south coast of England. Anybody who does, please let us know here!
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    William Hepburn's trophosperic ducting forecast for 6am this coming Friday, 18th July 2014, looks quite promising for long distance television reception viewed from the Channel Islands:

    http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_nwe.html

    An area tantalisingly close to the Channel Islands is colour-coded with a grade of 6 ("very strong opening") on the Hepburn Tropo Index. The same map also predicts a "good" opening (grade 4) extending as far as the southwest tip of England.

    I should just caution that I've been disappointed in the past when these forecast maps have looked promising but have not resulted in exceptional reception of long-dstance TV, but nevertheless it might be worth scanning your Freeview channels overnight Thursday into Friday.

    The local French TV stations (all transmitted on multiplex R1) that I most often pick up in Jersey during good tropospheric openings are as follows:

    Channel 25: Normandie TV
    Channel 26: Le Mans TV
    Channel 43: TEBEO - West Bretagne
    Channel 56: TV Vendee and Canal Cholet
    Channel 57: TyTele (Aka "TEBESUD") - South Bretagne

    Obviously I can receive TVR (Rennes) on Channel 21 at all times too, as that is where I receive my main French TV reception comes from.

    But the one I most want to pick up again is EiTB (Basque Country) on channel 61. If EiTB reception did return then I would also keep an eye on Channel 56 for any sign of TVPI - the local French station transmitting from Bayonne (Pyrénées-Atlantiques) just over the border from the Basque Country. I once came home to find that TVPI had added itself to my station list at the same time when EiTB was very strong too.
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    Winston_1 wrote: »
    Like us the French have cleared ch 61 to 69, so you need to find out where this has moved to.

    The French may have cleared it but the Basque Country definitely haven't because as I write this I'm watching the EiTB multiplex (4 Basque TV stations and 5 radio stations) on channel 61 (for the last hour) with wonderful reception and my Sony Bravia has even tuned in the EiTB programme guide! .... and at the same time I've also managed to record a substantial portion of a programme on TVPI (Bayonne, France) on channel 56 :p

    Wonderful opening. Remember that I don't use any amplification- just a standard aerial on the roof pointing at Rennes. If you're in England, give it a try now and you might be lucky tonight too!

    Update at 00.15: Five minutes ago I just briefly watched pictures from Telebahia and Telecosta on channel 26 from Santander, Spain. See the location map here:

    http://www.vacationstogo.com/images/ports/maps/507_w.gif


    http://www.telebahia.tv/web/contacto.htm
  • JonCollettJonCollett Posts: 492
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    The French may have cleared it but the Basque Country definitely haven't because as I write this I'm watching the EiTB multiplex (4 Basque TV stations and 5 radio stations) on channel 61 (for the last hour) with wonderful reception and my Sony Bravia has even tuned in the EiTB programme guide! .... and at the same time I've also managed to record a substantial portion of a programme on TVPI (Bayonne, France) on channel 56 :p

    Wonderful opening. Remember that I don't use any amplification- just a standard aerial on the roof pointing at Rennes. If you're in England, give it a try now and you might be lucky tonight too!

    Update at 00.15: Five minutes ago I just briefly watched pictures from Telebahia and Telecosta on channel 26 from Santander, Spain. See the location map here:


    http://www.vacationstogo.com/images/ports/maps/507_w.gif


    http://www.telebahia.tv/web/contacto.htm


    Wow, just think what you could get if you spent £40 on an amp !!! If you post this in the Technical section, there is a thread for receiving distant TV, with many DXers who would be really interested in your catches (myself included :) )
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    JonCollett wrote: »
    Wow, just think what you could get if you spent £40 on an amp !!! If you post this in the Technical section, there is a thread for receiving distant TV, with many DXers who would be really interested in your catches (myself included :) )

    Well sorry Jon but I still don't have an amp and I wasn't able to find the Tech forum in the limited time I had to search tonight but I just wanted to point out that the Hepburn's Tropospheric Ducting Forecast for 6 am this morning (Monday 11th May 2015) looks very interesting for the Channel Islands, with 'strong' conditions close by, 'very strong' conditions just 30 odd miles to the south of us on the north coast of Brittany, and intense conditions around the south coast of Brittany. There are also 'good' conditions forecast for parts of the south coast of England:

    http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_nwe.html
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    I have heard that on the night of 4/5 April 2016, all stations transmitting on TNT (the French version of Freeview) will switch to MPEG-4 coding and the number of multiplexes will reduce from the current 8 to 6. The 700Mhz band will be set aside for future high speed mobile services (4G). I am not sure exactly what is meant by the 700Mhz band - I presume this means from approximately channels 50ish upwards and that all TNT multiplexes currently broadcasting on channel numbers in the 50's will have to vacate them and move to channel numbers in the 40's or lower but we'll have to wait and see. As far as I'm aware, all TNT transmissions will still be in the older DVB-T format from April 2016, but I think it is intended to start switching to DVB-T2, but not before 2020 if I translated this right. You have to feel sorry for French TV viewers, as I think several million homes will be faced with blank screens from next year unless they buy some sort of external MPEG-4 decoder box.

    I understand that the French stations which presently transmit both in SD and HD (TF1, France 2, M6 and Arte) will only transmit in HD after this date. I would expect that all the public-owned TV channels (TDF) will transmit in HD only after 4/5 April. Currently, France 0, France 3, France 4, France 5 and LCP only broadcast in SD on TNT so that will be one advantage of the switchover.

    From a personal standpoint, I'm not too happy about it. Although I can already watch both French and UK HD transmissions on my Sony Bravia's internal tuner, I have a PVR combie that can only receive French and UK SD transmissions and that is my only means of recording French TV. I don't think my PVR will be able to receive any French stations at all after next April. Would it be feasible to buy an external HD decoder and connect it to my PVR? Currently my French aerial cable connects to the PVR and then a second aerial cable goes into the Sony Bravia. As I said, only once it gets into the Sony Bravia is it possible to watch French HD. I am not sure how it would work (or indeed if it would work) if the French aerial cable passed first through an external HD tuner (No.1), then through the PVR, before reaching the Sony Bravia's own internal HD tuner (No.2). I think I would still want to be able utilise both HD tuners rather than rely on one. This is because when tuning into long-distance stations, I notice quite a difference between the tuner on the PVR and the one inside my Sony Bravia. Very often one tuner gets the signal stronger than the other and viewing of the faraway station is possible on one but not on the other.

    I'm also concerned that these changes will result in more congestion, with multiplexes from different regions of France overlapping with each other during high pressure openings, making it harder to tune in to the stations I'm looking for. This is already a problem - just this week I picked up TEBEO (R1 multiplex) from West Brittany on channel 43, which I've done many times. However, the next night, TEBEO was deleted from my station list and I briefly started receiving one of the HD only multiplexes in its place, from an unknown region of France. Then the following night, weather conditions changed again and TEBEO retuned itself back in and the HD multiplex disappeared!

    Comments welcome on this.

    By the way, conditions look potentially very promising for long distance TV reception in the next few days for the Channel Islands and maybe west and south England too (but the last time I said this, it turned out to be a complete damp squib!).
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    I have heard that on the night of 4/5 April 2016, all stations transmitting on TNT (the French version of Freeview) will switch to MPEG-4 coding and the number of multiplexes will reduce from the current 8 to 6. The 700Mhz band will be set aside for future high speed mobile services (4G). I am not sure exactly what is meant by the 700Mhz band - I presume this means from approximately channels 50ish upwards and that all TNT multiplexes currently broadcasting on channel numbers in the 50's will have to vacate them and move to channel numbers in the 40's or lower but we'll have to wait and see. As far as I'm aware, all TNT transmissions will still be in the older DVB-T format from April 2016, but I think it is intended to start switching to DVB-T2, but not before 2020 if I translated this right. You have to feel sorry for French TV viewers, as I think several million homes will be faced with blank screens from next year unless they buy some sort of external MPEG-4 decoder box.
    The French use MPEG4 for HD so changing SD broadcasts to MPEG 4 will have little to no impact on them. Changing to DVB-T2 however may well have a greater impact. Though these days a lot of TVs are pan-european so a TV that is sold as Freeview HD (so includes DVB-T2 capability) may also be sold in France but the DVB-T2 stage doesn't get much use. In that scenario the TV would handle the format change easily.

    Essentially the 700MHz band is UHF channels 50+ give or take.
    From a personal standpoint, I'm not too happy about it. Although I can already watch both French and UK HD transmissions on my Sony Bravia's internal tuner, I have a PVR combie that can only receive French and UK SD transmissions and that is my only means of recording French TV. I don't think my PVR will be able to receive any French stations at all after next April. Would it be feasible to buy an external HD decoder and connect it to my PVR? Currently my French aerial cable connects to the PVR and then a second aerial cable goes into the Sony Bravia. As I said, only once it gets into the Sony Bravia is it possible to watch French HD. I am not sure how it would work (or indeed if it would work) if the French aerial cable passed first through an external HD tuner (No.1), then through the PVR, before reaching the Sony Bravia's own internal HD tuner (No.2). I think I would still want to be able utilise both HD tuners rather than rely on one. This is because when tuning into long-distance stations, I notice quite a difference between the tuner on the PVR and the one inside my Sony Bravia. Very often one tuner gets the signal stronger than the other and viewing of the faraway station is possible on one but not on the other.
    Presumably the PVR is only SD so does not have an MPEG4 decoder? If you have a DVD recorder you could attach a Freeview HD box via SCART and record from that. But if it is a standard hard drive only PVR you cannot record from the SCART so that option is not available. You might as well just buy a Freeview HD PVR to replace you current one which will have an MPEG4 decoder.

    As for daisy chaining devices. The type of tuner each device has is only relevant to that single device. The aerial passtrough signal on the device does not touch the tuner stage at all so that has no bearing whatsoever on what the next device in the chain can receive. The only influence the passthrough has is if the device the aerial signal is passing through has a low power standby mode that kills the passthrough stone dead.
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
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    chrisjr wrote: »
    Presumably the PVR is only SD so does not have an MPEG4 decoder? If you have a DVD recorder you could attach a Freeview HD box via SCART and record from that. But if it is a standard hard drive only PVR you cannot record from the SCART so that option is not available. You might as well just buy a Freeview HD PVR to replace you current one which will have an MPEG4 decoder.

    Thanks for this information, Chris. My PVR is actually HDD/DVD/VCR and I'm sure it is only MPEG-2, although that is not actually mentioned in the official specifications. From what you have said, I suspect an external decoder attached to my PVR will probably not solve the problem after next April.

    Jersey has just introduced 4G mobile on the 800Mhz and 1,800Mhz bands within the last couple of months and it is clear that it has caused serious TV interference problems for Freeview viewers in certain areas, as this local BBC report dated 17th June 2015 reveals:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-33169651

    I am actually located very close to the worst-affected area and I have noticed that reception of one or other of the 3 multiplexes I receive has sometimes broken up or even gone down to zero on occasions. However, I'm not yet sure whether this is just due to recent atmospeheric conditions or to direct interference from the new 4G signals. For example, I believe that 2 of the local 4G operators in Jersey are using the 800MHz band, which I take to be about channel 62 upwards. There is only one TV multiplex transmitting in my area anywhere close to that frequency, which is PSB1 (BBC) on channel 59 from the La Collette (St. Helier) relay located near to me. The next nearest TV frequency after that is channel 52 (PSB2) followed by channel 48 (PSB3), both also transmitted from La Collette. All frequencies transmitted from Fremont Point, which I can also receive, are in the 40's (channel numbers).

    I have therefore assumed that my occasional loss of reception of PSB2 or PSB3 is unlikely to be caused by 4G and if I am being affected at all then it is most likely to show on PSB1. Does anyone agree with this or could I still possibly suffer 4G interference on the lower frequencies just by my close proximity to the La Collette relay station, which is presumably also being used to transmit the 4G signals?
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    Thanks for this information, Chris. My PVR is actually HDD/DVD/VCR and I'm sure it is only MPEG-2, although that is not actually mentioned in the official specifications. From what you have said, I suspect an external decoder attached to my PVR will probably not solve the problem after next April.
    As it is a DVD recorder it can record from external inputs. It has the necessary electronics to take in a video and audio signal from another device and convert it to a digital format it can record onto hard drive or DVD disk. PVRs that only have hard drives lack this extra circuitry so can only record from their internal tuners.

    So with a DVD recorder you can connect an external Freeview HD box to act as an external source of video and audio. It is a bit more of a faff than using a single box to do the recording however.

    You would have to set the external HD box to whatever channel you wish to record then set the DVD recorder to record at the appropriate time from whatever SCART input you have the HD box plugged into. Also depending on the HD box it may not be possible to record two programmes on different channels one after the other (two at once is obviously impossible) depending on whether the box can be set to switch channels on demand.

    Much easier therefore to have one box doing recording and viewing and just select what you want to record from the EPG and not have to worry about setting some unrelated device to actually record the programmes.
    Jersey has just introduced 4G mobile on the 800Mhz and 1,800Mhz bands within the last couple of months and it is clear that it has caused serious TV interference problems for Freeview viewers in certain areas, as this local BBC report dated 17th June 2015 reveals:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-33169651

    I am actually located very close to the worst-affected area and I have noticed that reception of one or other of the 3 multiplexes I receive has sometimes broken up or even gone down to zero on occasions. However, I'm not yet sure whether this is just due to recent atmospeheric conditions or to direct interference from the new 4G signals. For example, I believe that 2 of the local 4G operators in Jersey are using the 800MHz band, which I take to be about channel 62 upwards. There is only one TV multiplex transmitting in my area anywhere close to that frequency, which is PSB1 (BBC) on channel 59 from the La Collette (St. Helier) relay located near to me. The next nearest TV frequency after that is channel 52 (PSB2) followed by channel 48 (PSB3), both also transmitted from La Collette. All frequencies transmitted from Fremont Point, which I can also receive, are in the 40's (channel numbers).

    I have therefore assumed that my occasional loss of reception of PSB2 or PSB3 is unlikely to be caused by 4G and if I am being affected at all then it is most likely to show on PSB1. Does anyone agree with this or could I still possibly suffer 4G interference on the lower frequencies just by my close proximity to the La Collette relay station, which is presumably also being used to transmit the 4G signals?
    It doesn't necessarily follow that because 4G signals are confined to frequencies above 800MHz that they only cause problems for TV signals closest to 800MHz.

    If the signal is strong enough it can cause issues in the front end stages of the tuner circuits that can cause problems all over the TV band. Though the closer the TV frequency is to the 4G frequency the more likely it is to suffer interference. But you can't rule out effects spreading to frequencies further away from the 4G signal as well.

    If you suspect you are getting 4G interference it could help fitting a 4G filter into the aerial feed. This should go in front of any aerial splitter device (especially a powered one) you have so all devices fed off the aerial are protected.

    Oh and don't assume that a TV site is also being used for mobile phones. Or vice versa. Looking at the pictures on the mb21 website there don't appear at first sight to be any mobile phone antennas obviously visible anywhere.

    http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/st-helier.php

    (Looks like Mike Brown has got the mux channel numbers a bit mixed up on that page.:))
  • Mark CMark C Posts: 20,685
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    chrisjr wrote: »

    http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/st-helier.php

    (Looks like Mike Brown has got the mux channel numbers a bit mixed up on that page.:))

    Not any more ;-)
  • mw963mw963 Posts: 3,062
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    . You have to feel sorry for French TV viewers, as I think several million homes will be faced with blank screens from next year unless they buy some sort of external MPEG-4 decoder box.
    !).


    As someone else has already said, a lot (the vast majority) of French installations won't be affected as TVs sold within the last six years or so have MPEG-4 as part of the spec, and increasing numbers watch via the internet anyway (apparently 44% was reported as the number having access to TV via ADSL recently).

    But where there may be a problem (certainly from my own experience in France) is that an enormous number of elderly people have bought SD STBs (either DTT or DSat) in order - via Scart - to "convert" their CRT's to digital. As most of these folk are of the generation that is unwilling to shell out a great deal on technology they're pretty much all MPEG2-only and they will indeed all stop working in April 2016, as Fransat and TNTsat have also announced an end to their SD MPEG2 services. At that point I'm going to be having to recommend to various folk HD MPEG 4 STB replacements that feature a SCART socket as well, which could be more and more of a challenge!

    For those of us with TNTsat HD we're promised 22 of the 25 channels in HD from July 1st this year, the same date that Canalsat goes HD MPEG 4 only, the TNTsat SD channels will carry on as duplicates of the HD ones until April 2016.

    The big uproar will - again as has been said - occur towards the end of this decade when DVB-T2 is introduced. I wouldn't want to be president of the republic at that juncture.

    Finally, that lot at mb21 are very quick to correct errors aren't they Mark C - can't think how they do it so fast!
  • technologisttechnologist Posts: 13,312
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    The big uproar will - again as has been said - occur towards the end of this decade when DVB-T2 is introduced. I wouldn't want to be president of the republic at that juncture.
    Interesting times as DSO 2 sweeps Europe as the 700 MHz band is cleared ....
    we in the UK at least have lots of T2 /AVC/AAC TV and STBs....
    All,HD capable as PSB go HD only at DSO 2

    But we could have so much more if Sajid Javid took action and stopped the just Freeview tick ..
    If not come 2019 there would be interesting times here....

    But the French have chosen a two step operation .. Let's see how the get on in 2016.
  • conductor71conductor71 Posts: 127
    Forum Member
    chrisjr wrote: »
    It doesn't necessarily follow that because 4G signals are confined to frequencies above 800MHz that they only cause problems for TV signals closest to 800MHz.

    If the signal is strong enough it can cause issues in the front end stages of the tuner circuits that can cause problems all over the TV band. Though the closer the TV frequency is to the 4G frequency the more likely it is to suffer interference. But you can't rule out effects spreading to frequencies further away from the 4G signal as well.

    If you suspect you are getting 4G interference it could help fitting a 4G filter into the aerial feed. This should go in front of any aerial splitter device (especially a powered one) you have so all devices fed off the aerial are protected.

    Oh and don't assume that a TV site is also being used for mobile phones. Or vice versa. Looking at the pictures on the mb21 website there don't appear at first sight to be any mobile phone antennas obviously visible anywhere.

    http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/st-helier.php

    (Looks like Mike Brown has got the mux channel numbers a bit mixed up on that page.:))

    Thanks. I have been trying to find out exactly where these 4G masts are. I had presumed that only a small number of large masts would be transmitting 4G but it appears that I may be wrong. I read a local news report from last December which said that JT (the state-owned mobile provider) was "replacing all 350 masts in Jersey with new 4G kit". This doesn't take into consideration the masts used by the other two mobile networks in Jersey.

    Given that the island is only about 45 square miles in area and there are probably many masts located within a mile of the average household, particularly in St. Helier, could the 4G interference problem potentially affect every household? I found this map (link below) which appears to indicate where JT is putting its 4G masts. There are about 4 of them within a few blocks of me and one that is just a few yards from my sister's house! I read somewhere else (which may or may not be reliable) that households located within 1.24 miles of a 4G base station are likely to suffer the worst interference - if a 'base station' is defined as any mast carrying a 4G signal than virtually any household in Jersey could be liable to suffer interference!

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zhbM16gwUiIM.k58Z9Yw-RmbE

    I think that in due course I will be applying to get a 4G filter fitted for free. Whether or not they'll accept that the level of my interference is enough to warrant one is another matter though. The Jersey mobile networks are advising people to check the following website:

    https://at800.tv/faqs/
  • chrisjrchrisjr Posts: 33,282
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    Thanks. I have been trying to find out exactly where these 4G masts are. I had presumed that only a small number of large masts would be transmitting 4G but it appears that I may be wrong. I read a local news report from last December which said that JT (the state-owned mobile provider) was "replacing all 350 masts in Jersey with new 4G kit". This doesn't take into consideration the masts used by the other two mobile networks in Jersey.

    Given that the island is only about 45 square miles in area and there are probably many masts located within a mile of the average household, particularly in St. Helier, could the 4G interference problem potentially affect every household? I found this map (link below) which appears to indicate where JT is putting its 4G masts. There are about 4 of them within a few blocks of me and one that is just a few yards from my sister's house! I read somewhere else (which may or may not be reliable) that households located within 1.24 miles of a 4G base station are likely to suffer the worst interference - if a 'base station' is defined as any mast carrying a 4G signal than virtually any household in Jersey could be liable to suffer interference!

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zhbM16gwUiIM.k58Z9Yw-RmbE

    I think that in due course I will be applying to get a 4G filter fitted for free. Whether or not they'll accept that the level of my interference is enough to warrant one is another matter though. The Jersey mobile networks are advising people to check the following website:

    https://at800.tv/faqs/
    There is a finite amount of capacity available to a mobile phone cell. Which in turn directly affects the number of subscribers who can connect to a cell at the same time. If you have a small number of large area cells then a lot of people are going to be without a connection because there isn't the capacity to give every subscriber a service.

    So you have lots of small area cells so the number of people connecting to any one cell is smaller so there is more chance of getting a connection. Plus there is more chance of connecting to an adjacent cell if the one closest is full.

    A 4G cell is only a problem if it is close to your location and the signal picked up by the TV aerial is sufficiently strong. TV aerials are very directional so cell towers off to the side or behind the aerial are less of a problem than one directly in front of the aerial. Unless they are so close that the signal overcomes the reduced pick up from the sides/rear of the aerial.

    If at800 don't think you qualify for a filter they are cheap enough to buy yourself, for example

    www.amazon.co.uk/Labgear-F4GAHS-Official-Approved-Filter/dp/B00CAM0E6Q/
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