Besides not everyone feels that being gay is right and they shouldnt be criticised for it
They absolutely can be criticized for it. Freedom of thought and freedom of speech allows their opinions to be heard, but those same two freedoms allows the rest of us to say what we think about that sort of bigotry.
On topic, brilliant scene, I thought. Well acted by all three. Loving the Carters.
They absolutely can be criticized for it. Freedom of thought and freedom of speech allows their opinions to be heard, but those same two freedoms allows the rest of us to say what we think about that sort of bigotry.
On topic, brilliant scene, I thought. Well acted by all three. Loving the Carters.
No they should NOT be criticised. You cant force people to change their opinion. You cant force a Christian to stop believing in God so stop saying that everyone should change their opinion on gays.
No they should NOT be criticised. You cant force people to change their opinion. You cant force a Christian to stop believing in God so stop saying that everyone should change their opinion on gays.
I'm not saying they should be forced to change opinion. I'm saying that just like they're allowed to have and express their opinion, everyone that disagrees with them is allowed to have and express their opinion too. Equality and freedom of thought and speech for all.
It's just a stupid stereotype that fathers 'can't accept it' and mothers 'embrace it with open arms'. Women can be bigoted too.
Exactly. Usually on these shows it's the father who can't handle it and gets angry or aggressive. I loved Mick's caring and sensitive reaction when Johnny told him. I think Linda's going to struggle because she's so close to Johnny, but hopefully she'll make some kind of peace with it even if she can't fully accept it.
It may well be 2014. Society may have come on leaps and bounds, but there are still plenty of homophobic messages out there. Still elements of society who hate gays, who don't believe gays should have any rights. Countries are in the news everyday criminalising homosexuality, yes in 2014! Churches are speaking out against homosexuality.
This is of course balanced by the breakthroughs in gay rights, marriage equality, adoption etc. People fall on different sides of the fence. The great thing is we don't know why Linda feels the way she does, but I do imagine she will come round.
I think it's refreshing for once, to see a father and son coming out scene, and the mother struggling a bit. It will all be ok. It's part of the "getting to know the new family" phase of the Carters.
The reasons for why prejudice against homosexuality still exists in these countries are complex. Unfortunately in Uganda and in India the origins of homophobia can largely be traced back to British colonialism, in fact many of the existing laws are remnants of that time, although Uganda are implementing new laws that go further. Of course that doesn't mean that it's an excuse for these abhorrent laws or the virulent homophobia, but all countries are a product of their history. In a broader sense homophobia in Africa goes back to European colonialism, before Africa was converted to Christianity it was common for many tribes to be tolerant of homosexuality and it was even encouraged. Hinduism was never a homophobic religion, at least not by the standards of the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), in fact it was positively enlightened in many ways.
Russia is a completely different matter and I'm particularly shocked at how far backwards that country has gone when it seemed at one point in the 90s that they were making progress. A docu-drama I watched about homophobia in Britain called A Very British Sex Scandal was very eye-opening and showed just how shockingly homophobic this country was only 50-60 years ago in the 1950s, similar to much of the countries we now look at in horror.
It makes you realise just how recent and potentially precarious our own tolerant society is.
If that was the case then why are some people still scared to come out? Why dont football players come out or hollywood actors if its 2014?
"It's 2014"
Oh right, tell that to Russia, Uganda and India.
It may well be 2014. Society may have come on leaps and bounds, but there are still plenty of homophobic messages out there. Still elements of society who hate gays, who don't believe gays should have any rights. Countries are in the news everyday criminalising homosexuality, yes in 2014! Churches are speaking out against homosexuality.
In the few months I have been on these forums, those are two of the best posts I have seen. Not homophobic myself, don't see why people are , but the It's (Insert current year hear) is a stupid argument. All anyone is doing is reminding us of the year. That's it, 4 numbers, does not matter if it is 2014, 5276, 9174, etc. People are going to have their views on matters such as homosexuality. If someone say's to them it's 2014, their whole mindset is not going to change, it's their beliefs.
Exactly. Usually on these shows it's the father who can't handle it and gets angry or aggressive. I loved Mick's caring and sensitive reaction when Johnny told him. I think Linda's going to struggle because she's so close to Johnny, but eventually she'll accept it.
I'm hoping that Linda's reaction/resistance will be explored.
She is quite consistently portrayed as a controlling and conservative woman who is very preoccupied with appearance and expects her children to live up to her (straight) expectations (also criticizing Nancy for not being feminine enough)
No they should NOT be criticised. You cant force people to change their opinion. You cant force a Christian to stop believing in God so stop saying that everyone should change their opinion on gays.
I think you're mixing up two different things here.
Belief or disbelief in God and what religion a person is,
is a bit different. As someone who believes in God, I feel awkward round my mom because she is an atheist but I don't think being an atheist is wrong.
While I can understand an otherwise well meaning person being lied to by their society about same sex love and holding false beliefs about it as a result, such false beliefs should be challenged and criticised.
Belief or disbelief in God will always be divided as it cannot be proven that God does or doesn't exist but everyone should know that falling in love with the same sex is no different from falling in love with the opposite sex.
No they should NOT be criticised. You cant force people to change their opinion. You cant force a Christian to stop believing in God so stop saying that everyone should change their opinion on gays.
Do you eat shellfish? The Bible says you're a sinner.
Do you wear different fabrics at the same time? You're a sinner.
Have you ever worked or gone out on a Sunday? You're a sinner.
Christians pick and choose what they want to believe to please themselves. They point to the Bible's teaching on homosexuality to excuse their own bigotry. It is a disgrace, nothing less.
Do you eat shellfish? The Bible says you're a sinner.
Do you wear different fabrics at the same time? You're a sinner.
Have you ever worked or gone out on a Sunday? You're a sinner.
Christians pick and choose what they want to believe to please themselves. They point to the Bible's teaching on homosexuality to excuse their own bigotry. It is a disgrace, nothing less.
I see Linda reaction as normal and quite realistic. Linda is not anti gay but as the way society is, as a parent you want a life where your child doesn't have to face bigots and homophobic morons of the world.
All a parent wants is for their child to have a easy life.
Agree with this. I would react the same, if your child is 'different' in any way you worry that certain ignorant people will make their lives difficult. Also she probs feels upset that the boy she thought she was so close to was to afraid to be honest about himself with her. That would upset me
I remember when I came out- My Sister screamed at me and said it was unnatural and wrong, my Mum said it was not natural but came around and my Dad was brilliant- very accepting.
So why are you surprised at her reaction?
The year doesnt matter tbh. I think a lot of parents (but not all) will initially be disappointed.
I see Linda reaction as normal and quite realistic. Linda is not anti gay but as the way society is, as a parent you want a life where your child doesn't have to face bigots and homophobic morons of the world.
All a parent wants is for their child to have a easy life.
You've just summed up my mother's reaction. She didn't care herself but she was worried about how other's would react.
Although it was never said, I do feel she was somewhat disappointed, but she was fully accepting.
What would be the point of having a storyline around the hardships of coming out if both parents just accepted it and they all moved on. They are showing how hard it can be, and the journey that both Linda and Johnny will have to go on together to get through this. She will come round; Johnny was the one child she considered perfect, and now he's gay it's shattered her world. It's telling us more about her character, and Mick's, Johnny's and Nancy's.
About time EE stopped burying its head in the sand. Even the most accepting of women would react in this way. Sadly, homophobia is everywhere in 2014, despite us wishing it wasn't. What would you have EE do? Just ignore it? How's that supposed act as an influence to others in Johnny's position?
Because not everybody wants a gay son or daughter.
It's a pointless reaction though. If your son is gay, he's gay. If your daughter is gay, she's gay. It's a fact. There's no point throwing a fit over it. It's not going to change.
It's a pointless reaction though. If your son is gay, he's gay. If your daughter is gay, she's gay. It's a fact. There's no point throwing a fit over it. It's not going to change.
Not really, maybe it was not him being gay that upset her. Maybe its the fact she thought she knew her son and thought they had a great bond etc.
It not easy for all parents to just accept when they may have had their own dreams for their kids.
What would be the point of having a storyline around the hardships of coming out if both parents just accepted it and they all moved on. They are showing how hard it can be, and the journey that both Linda and Johnny will have to go on together to get through this. She will come round; Johnny was the one child she considered perfect, and now he's gay it's shattered her world. It's telling us more about her character, and Mick's, Johnny's and Nancy's.
About time EE stopped burying its head in the sand. Even the most accepting of women would react in this way. Sadly, homophobia is everywhere in 2014, despite us wishing it wasn't. What would you have EE do? Just ignore it? How's that supposed act as an influence to others in Johnny's position?
Spot on. I mean we all know she will end up accepting it soon like you say its nice to see it develop rather then straight away.
I think you're mixing up two different things here.
Belief or disbelief in God and what religion a person is,
is a bit different. As someone who believes in God, I feel awkward round my mom because she is an atheist but I don't think being an atheist is wrong.
While I can understand an otherwise well meaning person being lied to by their society about same sex love and holding false beliefs about it as a result, such false beliefs should be challenged and criticised.
Belief or disbelief in God will always be divided as it cannot be proven that God does or doesn't exist but everyone should know that falling in love with the same sex is no different from falling in love with the opposite sex.
I like that reply
That's very fair and a lot to ponder actually
Yeah that'd be hard if a parent doesn't believe. I've Been brought up by a Christian my and dad thankfully but I think it'd be hard to accept if one of them wasn't. Must be a challenge for you at times
All I'm saying here is that what someone thinks in their heart is their own thought and should be allowed to feel something without being told it's wrong. People who say 'you have to support gays' I feel are just as bad as saying 'if you support gays you're evil'. We are told not to judge a sinner's heart
In a way as far as the mother is concerned it could well be that she sees it like some kind of death,,,in the sense that she would have had lots of dreams and ideas as to how her sons life would be.
Marriage kids etc...So I can see how she will "mourn" for the life she had planned for him..and then come to terms and accept his new life.
Yes I know he can still have a marriage and kids....I"m a gay man married to a man with 3 children.
Comments
They absolutely can be criticized for it. Freedom of thought and freedom of speech allows their opinions to be heard, but those same two freedoms allows the rest of us to say what we think about that sort of bigotry.
On topic, brilliant scene, I thought. Well acted by all three. Loving the Carters.
Highly doubt she is a homophobe. She was upset maybe she feels let down he could not come and talk to her and the fact she does not really know him.
No they should NOT be criticised. You cant force people to change their opinion. You cant force a Christian to stop believing in God so stop saying that everyone should change their opinion on gays.
It's very hard to agree with that.
I'm not saying they should be forced to change opinion. I'm saying that just like they're allowed to have and express their opinion, everyone that disagrees with them is allowed to have and express their opinion too. Equality and freedom of thought and speech for all.
Exactly. Usually on these shows it's the father who can't handle it and gets angry or aggressive. I loved Mick's caring and sensitive reaction when Johnny told him. I think Linda's going to struggle because she's so close to Johnny, but hopefully she'll make some kind of peace with it even if she can't fully accept it.
The reasons for why prejudice against homosexuality still exists in these countries are complex. Unfortunately in Uganda and in India the origins of homophobia can largely be traced back to British colonialism, in fact many of the existing laws are remnants of that time, although Uganda are implementing new laws that go further. Of course that doesn't mean that it's an excuse for these abhorrent laws or the virulent homophobia, but all countries are a product of their history. In a broader sense homophobia in Africa goes back to European colonialism, before Africa was converted to Christianity it was common for many tribes to be tolerant of homosexuality and it was even encouraged. Hinduism was never a homophobic religion, at least not by the standards of the Abrahamic faiths (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), in fact it was positively enlightened in many ways.
Russia is a completely different matter and I'm particularly shocked at how far backwards that country has gone when it seemed at one point in the 90s that they were making progress. A docu-drama I watched about homophobia in Britain called A Very British Sex Scandal was very eye-opening and showed just how shockingly homophobic this country was only 50-60 years ago in the 1950s, similar to much of the countries we now look at in horror.
It makes you realise just how recent and potentially precarious our own tolerant society is.
"It's 2014"
Oh right, tell that to Russia, Uganda and India.
It may well be 2014. Society may have come on leaps and bounds, but there are still plenty of homophobic messages out there. Still elements of society who hate gays, who don't believe gays should have any rights. Countries are in the news everyday criminalising homosexuality, yes in 2014! Churches are speaking out against homosexuality.
In the few months I have been on these forums, those are two of the best posts I have seen. Not homophobic myself, don't see why people are , but the It's (Insert current year hear) is a stupid argument. All anyone is doing is reminding us of the year. That's it, 4 numbers, does not matter if it is 2014, 5276, 9174, etc. People are going to have their views on matters such as homosexuality. If someone say's to them it's 2014, their whole mindset is not going to change, it's their beliefs.
Forgive me I do not know how to multi-quote.
I'm hoping that Linda's reaction/resistance will be explored.
She is quite consistently portrayed as a controlling and conservative woman who is very preoccupied with appearance and expects her children to live up to her (straight) expectations (also criticizing Nancy for not being feminine enough)
I think you're mixing up two different things here.
Belief or disbelief in God and what religion a person is,
is a bit different. As someone who believes in God, I feel awkward round my mom because she is an atheist but I don't think being an atheist is wrong.
While I can understand an otherwise well meaning person being lied to by their society about same sex love and holding false beliefs about it as a result, such false beliefs should be challenged and criticised.
Belief or disbelief in God will always be divided as it cannot be proven that God does or doesn't exist but everyone should know that falling in love with the same sex is no different from falling in love with the opposite sex.
Do you eat shellfish? The Bible says you're a sinner.
Do you wear different fabrics at the same time? You're a sinner.
Have you ever worked or gone out on a Sunday? You're a sinner.
Christians pick and choose what they want to believe to please themselves. They point to the Bible's teaching on homosexuality to excuse their own bigotry. It is a disgrace, nothing less.
Exactly.
Agree with this. I would react the same, if your child is 'different' in any way you worry that certain ignorant people will make their lives difficult. Also she probs feels upset that the boy she thought she was so close to was to afraid to be honest about himself with her. That would upset me
So why are you surprised at her reaction?
The year doesnt matter tbh. I think a lot of parents (but not all) will initially be disappointed.
Phil is an example, Phil doesnt, Shirley, Jay, does,
My parents are asian, and if I was gay, I sure would not tell them.
You've just summed up my mother's reaction. She didn't care herself but she was worried about how other's would react.
Although it was never said, I do feel she was somewhat disappointed, but she was fully accepting.
About time EE stopped burying its head in the sand. Even the most accepting of women would react in this way. Sadly, homophobia is everywhere in 2014, despite us wishing it wasn't. What would you have EE do? Just ignore it? How's that supposed act as an influence to others in Johnny's position?
It's a pointless reaction though. If your son is gay, he's gay. If your daughter is gay, she's gay. It's a fact. There's no point throwing a fit over it. It's not going to change.
Guessing the same way he did when Tina told him she was Gay. Maybe it will be Aunt babe who may have a issue with it or maybe not.
Not really, maybe it was not him being gay that upset her. Maybe its the fact she thought she knew her son and thought they had a great bond etc.
It not easy for all parents to just accept when they may have had their own dreams for their kids.
Spot on. I mean we all know she will end up accepting it soon like you say its nice to see it develop rather then straight away.
I like that reply
That's very fair and a lot to ponder actually
Yeah that'd be hard if a parent doesn't believe. I've Been brought up by a Christian my and dad thankfully but I think it'd be hard to accept if one of them wasn't. Must be a challenge for you at times
All I'm saying here is that what someone thinks in their heart is their own thought and should be allowed to feel something without being told it's wrong. People who say 'you have to support gays' I feel are just as bad as saying 'if you support gays you're evil'. We are told not to judge a sinner's heart
However they should want happy children.
In a way as far as the mother is concerned it could well be that she sees it like some kind of death,,,in the sense that she would have had lots of dreams and ideas as to how her sons life would be.
Marriage kids etc...So I can see how she will "mourn" for the life she had planned for him..and then come to terms and accept his new life.
Yes I know he can still have a marriage and kids....I"m a gay man married to a man with 3 children.