The Elephant In The Room.
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When will the judges stop pussyfooting around Lisas obvious weight problem and start making some of the comments they get away with saying to Dani and vincent about their small size? Isn't anyone going to say the real reason she looked so unweildly attempting the rhumba?
If the judges can see that Dani is small and call her a munchkin etc then how come they don't call Lisa a big dollop of fun.
If the judges can see that Dani is small and call her a munchkin etc then how come they don't call Lisa a big dollop of fun.
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Every criticism that was leveled against Michael tonight equally applied to Lisa - yet Michael got a lower score for a routine with far more content.
Lisa has got to take the rough with the smooth & I don't think she would have a problem with that.
a) offensive
b) hurtful
And would probably cause a forum meltdown.
So LIsa is overweight - so what? At least she has some personality, courage and get up and go which is more than can be said for other slimmer celebrities!
Lisa weight does not make it easy for her to do dances elegantly
Ditto Dani's short arms and legs, not being short per se but her proportions
Loius needs to perform
Nicky needs to acknowledge Karen' s existence at least once
Victoria is by far the worse dancer left
and by far the biggest : Bruce is embarrassing even Tess now, she did not like that opening grope
oh and a final one do you think all the Monkseal reference were a sort of rebellion on behalf of the judges to acknowledge that agree with him and can't believe they have to come out with the drivel they do?
Well said
It's that she is heavy-footed and she doesn't complete her lines. Her fingers are also often badly splayed and she is sometimes ahead of the music. She's not very supple and some people don't like her 'fun' persona.
Fat people can dance. And what's she supposed to do? Lose five stone in a week?
Nah.
It's not so much her size - though it must be a bugger trying to do lifts with all that weight - it's that awful gurning at the camera that I find offputting.
I enjoyed the show though, last thing anyone wants is to see Lisa openly critiscised for her weight, or judges going in for the kill when someone's cocked up and is close to tears, let the scores reflect the performance and no rude comments, no need.
I've seen heavier people than her who were both fast and very light on their feet but the rhumba requires the woman to have flexibility and sinuous body movements/shape.
To be like a well cooked length of wet spaghetti...I'm afraid she was always going to be more a jumbo sausage gone cold on the BBQ
Possibly because there are many elephants in the room
Lisa weight does not make it easy for her to do dances elegantly
Ditto Dani's short arms and legs, not being short per se but her proportions
Loius needs to perform
Nicky needs to acknowledge Karen' s existence at least once
Victoria is by far the worse dancer left
and by far the biggest : Bruce is embarrassing even Tess now, she did not like that opening grope
I agree with all of this.
I love Lisa but for whatever reason she lacks body flexibility that restricts what she can do. In that last movement where Robin held her leg as they turned round she held her head back but how much nicer that line would have looked had she been able to bend back even a little from the waist. Its unfortunate but she cannot create some of the graceful lines. She (imo) therefor needs to leave them out completely and play to her strengths - which she has plenty of.
I wonder if the difference between the judges feeling able to mention height but not weight is because there is absolutely nothing a contestant can do to change their height, but there is a perception that weight IS within someone's control. (I should add that I have no idea if this is true of Lisa or whether she has any kind of hormonal/medical condition which affects her weight.) So by commenting on height, they are acknowledging an unalterable fact that may give the contestants an advantage or disadvantage in a particular dance, e.g. the "jive is difficult for tall people" storyline that the show (or Len, at least) has perpetuated. In that example, if a tall couple has done a poor jive it's a kinder way of saying "you were cr@p"; the judges can blame the cr@pness on environmental factors that the couple has no way of overcoming no matter how hard they try and therefore absolve them a little of the responsibility for the rubbish dance.
However, because of the perception I mentioned that "fat = lazy/greedy/no willpower" (again, just to be clear, I don't believe that and am not casting any kind of judgement, but it's a belief I've seen stated or alluded to in many walks of life) then if the judges started making weight-based comments, they could be considered much more personal/critical, with the implication that it's ultimately the contestant's fault they couldn't do X or Y due to their size, because they have "failed" to control their weight. Going back to that perception again, the judges could be seen to be implying "you couldn't do X or Y because you're large/fat/outsize and you're large/fat/outsize because you're greedy/lazy/have no willpower".
I haven't explained it very well so I hope that makes some kind of sense.
Now people can get annoyed or angry with these observations but they are factual and everyone was able to see last night that a person of that size can never make a rumba look sexy and seductive.....for that you need body shapes and curves, where te man can make sensual hand movements and the woman can sway hips expose legs around her partner and so on....
There was none of that...just a lot of walking around eachother...it looked bad and the judges should've called it.......never in a million years was that worth a 7.......CRH:eek:
The point of a critique is to provide someone with constructive feedback of what they can practically do within a given timeframe to improve, not to destroy them. If Lisa wanted a long term career in dancing the advice would be different. As it is, Robin.needs to choreograph steps which play to her strengths. Generally I think he did try and do that in the rumba but she was a bit light footed and rushed.
I've seen some larger ladies dancing rumbas and they have looked great. Btw, a rumba does not have to have a lot of sexual tension. It can be romantic, dreamy etc.
Makes perfect sense to me. I am a short fat woman, having previously been a short skinny woman. When I was short and skinny, I was usually called 'dainty', which is a nice term. Now I am no longer dainty and I would be extremely upset if someone referred to my weight. Call me short if you really must, I can cope with that, although I would be tempted to point out that in fact that at 5'3 I am the average height for women in this country.
The control thing is a very good point, the general assumption being that women [and it something generally aimed at women] are fat because they stuff their faces and don't know when to stop. I don't eat a great deal - I'm a veggie and eat a lot of fruit & veg, soya, etc. I don't eat fast food of any kind. The problem is that I'm not as mobile as I should be, due to mobility issues following a bad accident, and so my metabolism has slowed right down.
I'm not saying that this is the case with Lisa, or even with every other overweight woman, but weight is a much more emotive issue for most women than height. You never hear of anyone asking if their 'legs look short in this', do you? It's always 'does my bum look big?'
But Lisa is doing it for the big girls, or so she has said on numerous occassions, therefore one would assume that her weight doesn't bother her. Besides who knows how Dani feels about being so short, I know she has made fun of it but then so has Lisa mentioned her weight in a jovial way, so why point out one dancers physicality and not anothers.
She's certainly not doing it for me. And anyway, who asked her to? Is she going to share her fee with 'the big girls'?
My post wasn't aimed at Lisa, I was trying to explain why weight can be an emotive issue and why it is generally less socially acceptable to refer to weight that height.
Fair enough, but I honestly, think "shortness" or perceived shortness is equally upsetting for a small person and they wouldn't like it pointing out anymore than some fat lass wants her body commented on. My point was why is it ok to mention Danii's short arm and leg extensions and not mention the lovely Lisa's girth. Anyhooo, wasn't a pop at you Wiskas..I'm 5.3 and A HALF myself;)