Do I see correctly? Both Martin Clunes and Caroline Catz are nominated for Drama - National Television Awards 2014. Does anyone know if Eileen Atkins and/or Claire Bloom are up for supporting roles? I would also tuck in another category for the babies used in S6.
Nominated but didn't win it appears from the NTVA website...
I feel that she was a bit more multi-dimensional in series 6 and the writing made her that way. She asks him to talk to the psychiatrist, she asks him to go away over the weekend, she was luscious in the honeymoon cottage. There were moments. She tried to make things better without expecting Martin to start the process. But those moments were greatly outweighed by a bitterness, unhappiness and frustration with her situation with Martin.
She also seemed to show a little bit of humor this series.
I have watched some of the earlier series recently. A lot is talked about how the Doc has become more gruff through the years. I have been struck by the huge change in Louisa. She has become edgier as well. It started with series 4.
I wonder what the show would have been like if Louisa's character had stayed more like she was in the earlier seasons, especially series 2 & 3. Back then she got frustrated with him, and tried to change him. She wasn't perfect, but she there was just more to her.
QUOTE]
Great post, dcdmfan. I cut it short as I am only addressing a part of it. You state the huge change, it had to change to keep the series continuing. Louisa's character didn't carry much weight in S1 and S2, just a love interest for DM. With the marriage proposal in S3, things got serious. It got edgier in S4 because she was pregnant. I think at somewhere around this time the writers and the Clunes'es listened to CC's ideas about the LG character. Then all the multiple layers kicked in, both for LG and more layers for DM.
I have watched some of the earlier series recently. A lot is talked about how the Doc has become more gruff through the years. I have been struck by the huge change in Louisa. She has become edgier as well. It started with series 4.
I wonder what the show would have been like if Louisa's character had stayed more like she was in the earlier seasons, especially series 2 & 3. Back then she got frustrated with him, and tried to change him. She wasn't perfect, but she there was just more to her.
Great post, dcdmfan. I cut it short as I am only addressing a part of it. You state the huge change, it had to change to keep the series continuing. Louisa's character didn't carry much weight in S1 and S2, just a love interest for DM. With the marriage proposal in S3, things got serious. It got edgier in S4 because she was pregnant. I think at somewhere around this time the writers and the Clunes'es listened to CC's ideas about the LG character. Then all the multiple layers kicked in, both for LG and more layers for DM.
I wish the effect hadn't come across like a personality transplant. :(
I wish the effect hadn't come across like a personality transplant. :(
While a dramatic change in personality, could it be due to a level of maturity and growth due to the situations that developed suddenly after the proposal (baby and then marriage)? It also seems more dramatic of a change as the actors age. CC isn't the cute LG anymore, she's matured...it's been 10 years since S1 but yet the series is only 6 years.
While a dramatic change in personality, could it be due to a level of maturity and growth due to the situations that developed suddenly after the proposal (baby and then marriage)? It also seems more dramatic of a change as the actors age. CC isn't the cute LG anymore, she's matured...it's been 10 years since S1 but yet the series is only 6 years.
If the character had started out younger, I would agree, but LG was already in her mid-30's when DM walked into her life, and we know he was not her first boyfriend, and possibly not even her first fiancé.
I believe that when S3 ended and the writers had broken them up yet again at the insistence of MC and PB, but then they realized they had to write a post-engagement S4, they all looked at each other and said something like, "Oh shit, what do we do now?!"
I can't say I've been ecstatic about the choices they've made. The humor and the romance have been missing for most of these last three seasons, and I am prepared to weather a storm of rotten tomatoes for saying that I think the show is weaker without them. In addition, they have saddled the production with a child character who is too young to participate actively in the storyline and therefore is constantly being passed around like a sack of potatoes. (Although here in America, he would more likely just be heard but not seen).
Obviously I differ greatly from TPTB about what constitutes "interesting." >:(:(
It also strikes me as ironic that I loved S1-3 even though they ended with M & L breaking up, and I disliked S4-5 even though they ended with M & L reconciling. I also didn't like S6, and I don't even know how to describe what M & L did at the end of it!
If the character had started out younger, I would agree, but LG was already in her mid-30's when DM walked into her life, and we know he was not her first boyfriend, and possibly not even her first fiancé.
I believe that when S3 ended and the writers had broken them up yet again at the insistence of MC and PB, but then they realized they had to write a S4, they all looked at each other and said something like, "Oh shit, what do we do now?!"
I can't say I've been ecstatic about the choices they've made. The humor and the romance have been missing for most of these last three seasons, and I am prepared to weather a storm of rotten tomatoes for saying that I think the show is weaker without them. In addition, they have saddled the production with a child character who is too young to participate actively in the storyline and therefore is constantly being passed around like a sack of potatoes. (Although here in America, he would more likely just be heard but not seen).
Obviously I differ greatly from TPTB about what constitutes "interesting." >:(:confused::(
I haven't really liked their recent choices either, Zarwen. In fact I was quite put out about the general tenor of S5 and S6, especially S6.
My idea about how they got to these choices is that initially, they really didn't expect the romance to take over the show, which seems to have been really intended as a vehicle for Martin Clunes, Caroline Catz, and her range of acting ability, were (was?) largely unknown to them. If you had only seen CC in those cop shows, I don't think you would have realized what a great actress she could be or become.
I think in S3, they and the writers were struggling with a dilemma -- there was a desire to get them married off and de-emphasize that story line, but also the realization that such a marriage would really have been preposterous. They were (and are, I think) quite unsuited to each other in many important respects and did not know each other well. At the same time, they -- writers and producers -- must have been pretty certain that ITV would recommission them. So they would have known that they would have another season to work things out, as necessary, if they chose in the end, not to marry them off. The ending scene of E3 was actually truthful - they would have made each other miserable. (Which is exactly how it played out in S6, only this time, they have more of a foundation and commitment to work things out if they choose). Fan reaction was rather negative, as I remember. So I think at that point they accepted the inevitable and began to work to keep the relationship "interesting" -- the only way, really, they could have brought Louisa back was for her to be pregnant (I think, anyway).
Somehow, in their quest to make things interesting, Martin and Louisa lost the sides of themselves that made them endearing. I think that was a mistake -- why should we care about these bickering, mismatched people, and why is it funny to watch a marriage disintegrate?
My belief is that they hit bottom of a long story arc roughly in S6E7, and there were strong hints in E8 that S7 would show us again the Martin and Louisa of S1-S4.
I quite like S4, actually, in spite of their being at odds most of the time. Somehow I don't categorize it with S5 and S6. Maybe b/c we still see the lovestruck Martin, who has mostly vanished from S5-S6.
And I don't think anyone understands the ending of S6! I imagine it was supposed to be ambiguous, so they could keep us guessing and do anything they wanted in S7. Although heaven knows, the non-ambiguous endings of S4 and S5 didn't stop them from going off in unanticipated directions.
I quite like S4, actually, in spite of their being at odds most of the time. Somehow I don't categorize it with S5 and S6. Maybe b/c we still see the lovestruck Martin, who has mostly vanished from S5-S6.
S4 was good in the sense that it left you wondering about them like S1-3.
And I don't think anyone understands the ending of S6! I imagine it was supposed to be ambiguous, so they could keep us guessing and do anything they wanted in S7. Although heaven knows, the non-ambiguous endings of S4 and S5 didn't stop them from going off in unanticipated directions.
Ambiguous indeed. But what makes it worth tuning in to see what happens or at least leaving two years of imagination generation!
I am not mystified by the ending of Series 6. The descent into the pit was by degrees and not even Arne Magnusson (spelling) could quite find the bottom. BP felt that to ascend from it, one must reach rock bottom. Now Martin and Louisa must climb out - together.
No more did we get a quick fix at the end. No more cute and pat tieups in the last five minutes for now it is serious...
Do I see correctly? Both Martin Clunes and Caroline Catz are nominated for Drama - National Television Awards 2014. Does anyone know if Eileen Atkins and/or Claire Bloom are up for supporting roles? I would also tuck in another category for the babies used in S6.
MC and CC were both nominated in the original long list of names for DM. CC was weeded out in that preliminary vote round and only MC went into the shortlist of 5 or 6 names for the final voting.
I did not see EA or CB in any category, nor was there a supporting role category.
I am not mystified by the ending of Series 6. The descent into the pit was by degrees and not even Arne Magnusson (spelling) could quite find the bottom. BP felt that to ascend from it, one must reach rock bottom. Now Martin and Louisa must climb out - together.
No more did we get a quick fix at the end. No more cute and pat tieups in the last five minutes for now it is serious...
To understand my reference, think Jules Verne.
I like your thinking on this and it is, I think, what we were to take from it. I expect it to be an interesting climb--if indeed, that is the story we get in S7. I've said it before--I expect only the unexpected from them.
I haven't really liked their recent choices either, Zarwen. In fact I was quite put out about the general tenor of S5 and S6, especially S6.
My idea about how they got to these choices is that initially, they really didn't expect the romance to take over the show, which seems to have been really intended as a vehicle for Martin Clunes, Caroline Catz, and her range of acting ability, were (was?) largely unknown to them. If you had only seen CC in those cop shows, I don't think you would have realized what a great actress she could be or become.
I think in S3, they and the writers were struggling with a dilemma -- there was a desire to get them married off and de-emphasize that story line, but also the realization that such a marriage would really have been preposterous. They were (and are, I think) quite unsuited to each other in many important respects and did not know each other well. At the same time, they -- writers and producers -- must have been pretty certain that ITV would recommission them. So they would have known that they would have another season to work things out, as necessary, if they chose in the end, not to marry them off. The ending scene of E3 was actually truthful - they would have made each other miserable. (Which is exactly how it played out in S6, only this time, they have more of a foundation and commitment to work things out if they choose). Fan reaction was rather negative, as I remember. So I think at that point they accepted the inevitable and began to work to keep the relationship "interesting" -- the only way, really, they could have brought Louisa back was for her to be pregnant (I think, anyway).
Hi NewPark, abbreviating a bit here so as not to take up the entire page. Agree with you about their relationship in S3, but why rush them to the altar? S4 could have been all about their engagement, and I think it would have had the potential for a lot of funny stuff while still maintaining the "will they/won't they" aspect in a much more realistic manner.
Also agree about losing the endearing qualities (as I had mentioned, humor and romance) and wondering why should care about these characters any more. I would even go a step further to say that their relationship now resembles real life too much and no longer offers the beautiful escapism that I so loved about S1-3.
Disagree with you about how "the only way they could have brought Louisa back," although clearly they were looking for a way to keep her tied to DM after breaking the engagement. At the end of S3, she hadn't left yet! We knew nothing of her leaving until the premiere of S4. I doubt whether many fans were expecting that, either, except perhaps those that are keenly attuned to spoilers. After all, it was known that CC was still part of the cast. Another possible choice of direction could have been a gradual reconciliation (2 steps forward, 1 step back) over the course of S4 without the need for a move to London or a baby. Or it could have been DM, not LG, who left (and later came back). There are always choices.
I like your thinking on this and it is, I think, what we were to take from it. I expect it to be an interesting climb--if indeed, that is the story we get in S7. I've said it before--I expect only the unexpected from them.
Me too, Susie, which is why I dread S7 rather than look forward to it.
Hi NewPark, abbreviating a bit here so as not to take up the entire page. Agree with you about their relationship in S3, but why rush them to the altar? S4 could have been all about their engagement, and I think it would have had the potential for a lot of funny stuff while still maintaining the "will they/won't they" aspect in a much more realistic manner.
Disagree with you about how "the only way they could have brought Louisa back," although clearly they were looking for a way to keep her tied to DM after breaking the engagement. At the end of S3, she hadn't left yet! We knew nothing of her leaving until the premiere of S4. I doubt whether many fans were expecting that, either, except perhaps those that are keenly attuned to spoilers. After all, it was known that CC was still part of the cast. Another possible choice of direction could have been a gradual reconciliation (2 steps forward, 1 step back) over the course of S4 without the need for a move to London or a baby. Or it could have been DM, not LG, who left (and later came back). There are always choices.
You're right Zarwen -- I overstated. There were many other options. I think they chose this one b/c they felt it offered maximum opportunity for drama -- not in the dark way of S6, but still as dramedy.
I would truly love to find out their thinking on S3. Did they know all along that they were going to end this way, did they think that would end the relationship and then reconsidered when they were recommissioned? It started off as a fairy tale and then abruptly jolted into reality.
Me too, Susie, which is why I dread S7 rather than look forward to it.
I am in the middle of a rewatch that I have dubbed....the behavior of Louisa rewatch...in the whole of S1 Louisa's crush on Martin is truly that......big man...wears suits...probably smells really good in contrast to Port Wenn's best....just what Martin is until he tells her about his blood thing. Then..he is a superhero of sorts. The very beginning of S2 Danny appears, which is an impediment to the natural evolution of their relationship. Martin has something to resent which takes away from something that was supposed to happen. I just watched where Tricia Soames prevented Martin from meeting Louisa and it was so sad...that was just too bad...I have to watch some more to finish out. Danny was an impediment early on, in any case
You're right Zarwen -- I overstated. There were many other options. I think they chose this one b/c they felt it offered maximum opportunity for drama -- not in the dark way of S6, but still as dramedy.
I would truly love to find out their thinking on S3. Did they know all along that they were going to end this way, did they think that would end the relationship and then reconsidered when they were recommissioned? It started off as a fairy tale and then abruptly jolted into reality.
MC addressed that in an interview. He said that they had been "treading water" with the relationship between these characters for two seasons and they felt it was time for them to move forward. But they didn't want a happy ending because they didn't want an ending of any kind, and they also didn't want to lose the "will they/won't they" aspect. (Which has dragged on WAY TOO LONG as far as I am concerned.>:() The audience, of course, also wanted the characters to get together, so they got an almost-wedding which left them feeling cheated, as I think you mentioned earlier. >:(
I am not sure exactly when they got news of commissioning S4, but I know it was before S3 aired. I think someone here had mentioned that it was before S3 was finished shooting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone here on the forum could let us know.
As I mentioned above, I have felt all along that going from a casual acquaintanceship all the way to the altar within 1 season (and a shortened one at that!) was too hasty and unnecessary, esp. if they already knew that there was a S4 in their future. Either way, I believe the fatal flaw in BP's deliberations was in viewing a wedding as an ending, whether happy or otherwise. In real life, a wedding is a new beginning, not an ending, and I have always thought it was too bad that BP didn't look at it that way when planning for S3 and 4.
I am not mystified by the ending of Series 6. The descent into the pit was by degrees and not even Arne Magnusson (spelling) could quite find the bottom. BP felt that to ascend from it, one must reach rock bottom. Now Martin and Louisa must climb out - together.
No more did we get a quick fix at the end. No more cute and pat tieups in the last five minutes for now it is serious...
To understand my reference, think Jules Verne.
I agree with you that 1) they will be together by the end of S7 and 2) a pat tie-up in the last 5 minutes was inappropriate, given how close to the brink they had come.
But still mystifying: 1) does she or does she not remember the pre-op speech? If she does, can she really mean that "nothing's changed?" 2) When he agreed with her that their marriage shouldn't continue as it was, how did she interpret that? As saying he didn't want it to continue, period, or that there were some grounds for hope that he was willing to change? 3) And how interpret the last scene with Louisa, where a rapid succession of emotions were visible? Does she get that he's committed to her as his wife, and does that make her happy, or perhaps even sad, b/c it might be harder to extricate herself from a marriage she no longer believes can work, and brings her pain? Maybe what we really see in her is ambivalence, in itself hard to interpret!
I understand that we can't know how they will advance the plot line in S7, and also that they will put us through as many hoops as possible before the final reconciliation,
It's no wonder that viewers felt cheated by the ending of S3. The whole season was in some sense a set-up -- framed by the very beginning when Louisa is reading the fairy tale and the plot device fairly shouts that a marriage is in the offing.
I think they believe that maximum dramatic effect can be extracted by the "will they- won't they" scenario, and that this is what pulls viewers in. They wrung that out as long as possible and then shifted the "will they-won't they" scenario to staying married instead of getting married.
I really hated that they did that, and on the whole, I think I would rather they had ended at the castle than be played in this way. Still, I can't say that they made the wrong choice, if what they were going for was dramatic effect. I don't think the ordinary, garden variety, trials and tribulations of a new marriage would have had as much impact, and though devoted fans would have continued, the vast majority of viewers are more marginal and a lot would have peeled off at that point. I suppose I should be grateful that they didn't decide to kill off Louisa, for even more maximal dramatic effect, and I suspect the major reason they didn't go that route is that they knew it would well and truly p8$s off their fans.
I suppose I should be grateful that they didn't decide to kill off Louisa, for even more maximal dramatic effect, and I suspect the major reason they didn't go that route is that they knew it would well and truly p8$s off their fans.
There were a number of times I wondered if that was going to happen at the end of S6. I almost felt like BP wanted to bring the show back to where it centered around DM and his character without L in the picture. I could see them focusing on DM in future series' raising JH on his own as a widower/father. If that is where it led to at the end of S6 (I'm glad it didn't), I think I would have been with several others, wishing they had ended the whole thing at S5.
I take reassurance to some extent that the powers that be at BP are not like Julian Fellowes....
But still mystifying: 1) does she or does she not remember the pre-op speech? If she does, can she really mean that "nothing's changed?" 2) When he agreed with her that their marriage shouldn't continue as it was, how did she interpret that? As saying he didn't want it to continue, period, or that there were some grounds for hope that he was willing to change? 3) And how interpret the last scene with Louisa, where a rapid succession of emotions were visible? Does she get that he's committed to her as his wife, and does that make her happy, or perhaps even sad, b/c it might be harder to extricate herself from a marriage she no longer believes can work, and brings her pain? Maybe what we really see in her is ambivalence, in itself hard to interpret!
I think she is surprised by his saying that he didn't want to continue the way it has been, and I think it gave her hope. I don't think she was threatening a breakup but was (finally) telling him what she needed from him. The fact that he saved her life doesn't mean he saved their marriage. She knows that he will go to the ends of the earth for all his patients and especially her but that doesn't change their relationship. In the past these big moments have been what restarted their relationship but that isn't enough to build a marriage around. She wanted to make that clear to him that she can't do that anymore.
When she thanks him for coming after her I think she might remember that he said he was coming to Spain. At the same time it was also a thank you for saving her life. "Your my patient" - matter of fact statement that he goes after all his patients. "You're my wife" - an acknowledgement that he is going to commit to her just as he is committed to his patients. Until now his self identity has been as a surgeon and then as a doctor. He is now going to commit to their marriage just her as he is committed to his patients.
It would have been better if he said he is her husband rather than she is his wife. However, I think it is meant that he is recognizing that his self identity as a doctor was not going to carry him in his marriage. Being a doctor comes naturally to him - he is the best around and doesn't need any help to do his job. For most people it would be a no-brainer that their marriage is equally if not more important to their profession. Medicine has been the most important thing in his life, and now he is placing equal importance to his marriage. He is being realistic to give them equal importance at this point since has has given medicine the highest status to the exclusion of all else. Saying both in the same breath he has raised the status of his marriage to that of medicine. Being married doesn't come naturally to him, but by saying both of those things at the same he is committing to working as hard on his marriage as he does on his medicine. He is committing to what is possible for him to deliver and is not promising her the ends of the earth like he has done before.
I don't know what she is thinking. But by him saying he is going to work hard at it and give it his best shot, I think she will be willing to stick it out, too. She also thought the big moments were enough to jump start things so maybe she recognizes her mistakes as well. She uses the word "we" instead of "I" which is how she approached it before. We implies that they are in this together. It is not "you and me" (S5e6) but "us". Subtle difference? I don't know, we'll see in S7.
I think she is surprised by his saying that he didn't want to continue the way it has been, and I think it gave her hope. I don't think she was threatening a breakup but was (finally) telling him what she needed from him. The fact that he saved her life doesn't mean he saved their marriage. She knows that he will go to the ends of the earth for all his patients and especially her but that doesn't change their relationship. In the past these big moments have been what restarted their relationship but that isn't enough to build a marriage around. She wanted to make that clear to him that she can't do that anymore.
When she thanks him for coming after her I think she might remember that he said he was coming to Spain. At the same time it was also a thank you for saving her life. "Your my patient" - matter of fact statement that he goes after all his patients. "You're my wife" - an acknowledgement that he is going to commit to her just as he is committed to his patients. Until now his self identity has been as a surgeon and then as a doctor. He is now going to commit to their marriage just her as he is committed to his patients.
It would have been better if he said he is her husband rather than she is his wife. However, I think it is meant that he is recognizing that his self identity as a doctor was not going to carry him in his marriage. Being a doctor comes naturally to him - he is the best around and doesn't need any help to do his job. For most people it would be a no-brainer that their marriage is equally if not more important to their profession. Medicine has been the most important thing in his life, and now he is placing equal importance to his marriage. He is being realistic to give them equal importance at this point since has has given medicine the highest status to the exclusion of all else. Saying both in the same breath he has raised the status of his marriage to that of medicine. Being married doesn't come naturally to him, but by saying both of those things at the same he is committing to working as hard on his marriage as he does on his medicine. He is committing to what is possible for him to deliver and is not promising her the ends of the earth like he has done before.
I don't know what she is thinking. But by him saying he is going to work hard at it and give it his best shot, I think she will be willing to stick it out, too. She also thought the big moments were enough to jump start things so maybe she recognizes her mistakes as well. She uses the word "we" instead of "I" which is how she approached it before. We implies that they are in this together. It is not "you and me" (S5e6) but "us". Subtle difference? I don't know, we'll see in S7.
Great post, DCMCfan!
"and you are my wife" always takes me back to the scene where she was asking him why he didn't tell her that his blood phobia had returned, and said to him, "but I'm your wife." I do think he's telling her there that he gets it, now. I think that's what she hears from him.
I also think that because she genuinely loves him, it does hurt her that her decision to take a time out (and I still believe the implication was that she might decide not to continue in the marriage) was causing him so much pain. Especially since she recognized that because he was so damaged, he might not have the capacity to work at salvaging their marriage, and thus inevitably would continue to be in pain.
Comments
Nominated but didn't win it appears from the NTVA website...
I think I just vomited in my mouth.
Why? It's true if you've ever watched William and Mary.
She also seemed to show a little bit of humor this series.
Not saying there wasn't that in W&M. I just can't stand Julie Graham or seeing them together. Gagging...
This week's episode thrown out of the surgery:
S1E5 Of All the Harbours in All the Towns
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I wish the effect hadn't come across like a personality transplant.
While a dramatic change in personality, could it be due to a level of maturity and growth due to the situations that developed suddenly after the proposal (baby and then marriage)? It also seems more dramatic of a change as the actors age. CC isn't the cute LG anymore, she's matured...it's been 10 years since S1 but yet the series is only 6 years.
If the character had started out younger, I would agree, but LG was already in her mid-30's when DM walked into her life, and we know he was not her first boyfriend, and possibly not even her first fiancé.
I believe that when S3 ended and the writers had broken them up yet again at the insistence of MC and PB, but then they realized they had to write a post-engagement S4, they all looked at each other and said something like, "Oh shit, what do we do now?!"
I can't say I've been ecstatic about the choices they've made. The humor and the romance have been missing for most of these last three seasons, and I am prepared to weather a storm of rotten tomatoes for saying that I think the show is weaker without them. In addition, they have saddled the production with a child character who is too young to participate actively in the storyline and therefore is constantly being passed around like a sack of potatoes. (Although here in America, he would more likely just be heard but not seen).
Obviously I differ greatly from TPTB about what constitutes "interesting." >:(:(
It also strikes me as ironic that I loved S1-3 even though they ended with M & L breaking up, and I disliked S4-5 even though they ended with M & L reconciling. I also didn't like S6, and I don't even know how to describe what M & L did at the end of it!
I haven't really liked their recent choices either, Zarwen. In fact I was quite put out about the general tenor of S5 and S6, especially S6.
My idea about how they got to these choices is that initially, they really didn't expect the romance to take over the show, which seems to have been really intended as a vehicle for Martin Clunes, Caroline Catz, and her range of acting ability, were (was?) largely unknown to them. If you had only seen CC in those cop shows, I don't think you would have realized what a great actress she could be or become.
I think in S3, they and the writers were struggling with a dilemma -- there was a desire to get them married off and de-emphasize that story line, but also the realization that such a marriage would really have been preposterous. They were (and are, I think) quite unsuited to each other in many important respects and did not know each other well. At the same time, they -- writers and producers -- must have been pretty certain that ITV would recommission them. So they would have known that they would have another season to work things out, as necessary, if they chose in the end, not to marry them off. The ending scene of E3 was actually truthful - they would have made each other miserable. (Which is exactly how it played out in S6, only this time, they have more of a foundation and commitment to work things out if they choose). Fan reaction was rather negative, as I remember. So I think at that point they accepted the inevitable and began to work to keep the relationship "interesting" -- the only way, really, they could have brought Louisa back was for her to be pregnant (I think, anyway).
Somehow, in their quest to make things interesting, Martin and Louisa lost the sides of themselves that made them endearing. I think that was a mistake -- why should we care about these bickering, mismatched people, and why is it funny to watch a marriage disintegrate?
My belief is that they hit bottom of a long story arc roughly in S6E7, and there were strong hints in E8 that S7 would show us again the Martin and Louisa of S1-S4.
I quite like S4, actually, in spite of their being at odds most of the time. Somehow I don't categorize it with S5 and S6. Maybe b/c we still see the lovestruck Martin, who has mostly vanished from S5-S6.
And I don't think anyone understands the ending of S6! I imagine it was supposed to be ambiguous, so they could keep us guessing and do anything they wanted in S7. Although heaven knows, the non-ambiguous endings of S4 and S5 didn't stop them from going off in unanticipated directions.
I totally agree with you here.
S4 was good in the sense that it left you wondering about them like S1-3.
Ambiguous indeed. But what makes it worth tuning in to see what happens or at least leaving two years of imagination generation!
No more did we get a quick fix at the end. No more cute and pat tieups in the last five minutes for now it is serious...
To understand my reference, think Jules Verne.
MC and CC were both nominated in the original long list of names for DM. CC was weeded out in that preliminary vote round and only MC went into the shortlist of 5 or 6 names for the final voting.
I did not see EA or CB in any category, nor was there a supporting role category.
http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/17/national-television-awards-2014-full-list-of-nominations-4032250/
I like your thinking on this and it is, I think, what we were to take from it. I expect it to be an interesting climb--if indeed, that is the story we get in S7. I've said it before--I expect only the unexpected from them.
Hi NewPark, abbreviating a bit here so as not to take up the entire page. Agree with you about their relationship in S3, but why rush them to the altar? S4 could have been all about their engagement, and I think it would have had the potential for a lot of funny stuff while still maintaining the "will they/won't they" aspect in a much more realistic manner.
Also agree about losing the endearing qualities (as I had mentioned, humor and romance) and wondering why should care about these characters any more. I would even go a step further to say that their relationship now resembles real life too much and no longer offers the beautiful escapism that I so loved about S1-3.
Disagree with you about how "the only way they could have brought Louisa back," although clearly they were looking for a way to keep her tied to DM after breaking the engagement. At the end of S3, she hadn't left yet! We knew nothing of her leaving until the premiere of S4. I doubt whether many fans were expecting that, either, except perhaps those that are keenly attuned to spoilers. After all, it was known that CC was still part of the cast. Another possible choice of direction could have been a gradual reconciliation (2 steps forward, 1 step back) over the course of S4 without the need for a move to London or a baby. Or it could have been DM, not LG, who left (and later came back). There are always choices.
Me too, Susie, which is why I dread S7 rather than look forward to it.
You're right Zarwen -- I overstated. There were many other options. I think they chose this one b/c they felt it offered maximum opportunity for drama -- not in the dark way of S6, but still as dramedy.
I would truly love to find out their thinking on S3. Did they know all along that they were going to end this way, did they think that would end the relationship and then reconsidered when they were recommissioned? It started off as a fairy tale and then abruptly jolted into reality.
I am in the middle of a rewatch that I have dubbed....the behavior of Louisa rewatch...in the whole of S1 Louisa's crush on Martin is truly that......big man...wears suits...probably smells really good in contrast to Port Wenn's best....just what Martin is until he tells her about his blood thing. Then..he is a superhero of sorts. The very beginning of S2 Danny appears, which is an impediment to the natural evolution of their relationship. Martin has something to resent which takes away from something that was supposed to happen. I just watched where Tricia Soames prevented Martin from meeting Louisa and it was so sad...that was just too bad...I have to watch some more to finish out. Danny was an impediment early on, in any case
MC addressed that in an interview. He said that they had been "treading water" with the relationship between these characters for two seasons and they felt it was time for them to move forward. But they didn't want a happy ending because they didn't want an ending of any kind, and they also didn't want to lose the "will they/won't they" aspect. (Which has dragged on WAY TOO LONG as far as I am concerned.>:() The audience, of course, also wanted the characters to get together, so they got an almost-wedding which left them feeling cheated, as I think you mentioned earlier. >:(
I am not sure exactly when they got news of commissioning S4, but I know it was before S3 aired. I think someone here had mentioned that it was before S3 was finished shooting, but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone here on the forum could let us know.
As I mentioned above, I have felt all along that going from a casual acquaintanceship all the way to the altar within 1 season (and a shortened one at that!) was too hasty and unnecessary, esp. if they already knew that there was a S4 in their future. Either way, I believe the fatal flaw in BP's deliberations was in viewing a wedding as an ending, whether happy or otherwise. In real life, a wedding is a new beginning, not an ending, and I have always thought it was too bad that BP didn't look at it that way when planning for S3 and 4.
I agree with you that 1) they will be together by the end of S7 and 2) a pat tie-up in the last 5 minutes was inappropriate, given how close to the brink they had come.
But still mystifying: 1) does she or does she not remember the pre-op speech? If she does, can she really mean that "nothing's changed?" 2) When he agreed with her that their marriage shouldn't continue as it was, how did she interpret that? As saying he didn't want it to continue, period, or that there were some grounds for hope that he was willing to change? 3) And how interpret the last scene with Louisa, where a rapid succession of emotions were visible? Does she get that he's committed to her as his wife, and does that make her happy, or perhaps even sad, b/c it might be harder to extricate herself from a marriage she no longer believes can work, and brings her pain? Maybe what we really see in her is ambivalence, in itself hard to interpret!
I understand that we can't know how they will advance the plot line in S7, and also that they will put us through as many hoops as possible before the final reconciliation,
I think they believe that maximum dramatic effect can be extracted by the "will they- won't they" scenario, and that this is what pulls viewers in. They wrung that out as long as possible and then shifted the "will they-won't they" scenario to staying married instead of getting married.
I really hated that they did that, and on the whole, I think I would rather they had ended at the castle than be played in this way. Still, I can't say that they made the wrong choice, if what they were going for was dramatic effect. I don't think the ordinary, garden variety, trials and tribulations of a new marriage would have had as much impact, and though devoted fans would have continued, the vast majority of viewers are more marginal and a lot would have peeled off at that point. I suppose I should be grateful that they didn't decide to kill off Louisa, for even more maximal dramatic effect, and I suspect the major reason they didn't go that route is that they knew it would well and truly p8$s off their fans.
There were a number of times I wondered if that was going to happen at the end of S6. I almost felt like BP wanted to bring the show back to where it centered around DM and his character without L in the picture. I could see them focusing on DM in future series' raising JH on his own as a widower/father. If that is where it led to at the end of S6 (I'm glad it didn't), I think I would have been with several others, wishing they had ended the whole thing at S5.
I take reassurance to some extent that the powers that be at BP are not like Julian Fellowes....
I think she is surprised by his saying that he didn't want to continue the way it has been, and I think it gave her hope. I don't think she was threatening a breakup but was (finally) telling him what she needed from him. The fact that he saved her life doesn't mean he saved their marriage. She knows that he will go to the ends of the earth for all his patients and especially her but that doesn't change their relationship. In the past these big moments have been what restarted their relationship but that isn't enough to build a marriage around. She wanted to make that clear to him that she can't do that anymore.
When she thanks him for coming after her I think she might remember that he said he was coming to Spain. At the same time it was also a thank you for saving her life. "Your my patient" - matter of fact statement that he goes after all his patients. "You're my wife" - an acknowledgement that he is going to commit to her just as he is committed to his patients. Until now his self identity has been as a surgeon and then as a doctor. He is now going to commit to their marriage just her as he is committed to his patients.
It would have been better if he said he is her husband rather than she is his wife. However, I think it is meant that he is recognizing that his self identity as a doctor was not going to carry him in his marriage. Being a doctor comes naturally to him - he is the best around and doesn't need any help to do his job. For most people it would be a no-brainer that their marriage is equally if not more important to their profession. Medicine has been the most important thing in his life, and now he is placing equal importance to his marriage. He is being realistic to give them equal importance at this point since has has given medicine the highest status to the exclusion of all else. Saying both in the same breath he has raised the status of his marriage to that of medicine. Being married doesn't come naturally to him, but by saying both of those things at the same he is committing to working as hard on his marriage as he does on his medicine. He is committing to what is possible for him to deliver and is not promising her the ends of the earth like he has done before.
I don't know what she is thinking. But by him saying he is going to work hard at it and give it his best shot, I think she will be willing to stick it out, too. She also thought the big moments were enough to jump start things so maybe she recognizes her mistakes as well. She uses the word "we" instead of "I" which is how she approached it before. We implies that they are in this together. It is not "you and me" (S5e6) but "us". Subtle difference? I don't know, we'll see in S7.
Great post, DCMCfan!
"and you are my wife" always takes me back to the scene where she was asking him why he didn't tell her that his blood phobia had returned, and said to him, "but I'm your wife." I do think he's telling her there that he gets it, now. I think that's what she hears from him.
I also think that because she genuinely loves him, it does hurt her that her decision to take a time out (and I still believe the implication was that she might decide not to continue in the marriage) was causing him so much pain. Especially since she recognized that because he was so damaged, he might not have the capacity to work at salvaging their marriage, and thus inevitably would continue to be in pain.