^^ That. I wouldnt mind if either side were making progress but just how many people have died on both sides just to maintain the status quo ?
Ridiculous, surely Hamas must see they will NEVER defect Israel through force of arms alone so really, what is the point. If you keep getting stung...stop poking the honets nest, dont use getting stung as an excuse to keep poking. At some point in all endeavour you really need to start to review the sucess of any actions you are carrying out surely ?
So if someone occupies your land and subjugates the population you should just accept it meekly?
So if someone occupies your land and subjugates the population you should just accept it meekly?
You do whatever works and causes least death of 'your side' for maximum return, lobbing random rockets is not that I dont believe. I dont see any element of reasonable return from Hamas is doing, maybe I am missing the progress this is making however,
For the 3rd time - GAZA IS NOT OCCUPIED!!!!!!!!!!!!
It everyone knows it is not, but it is surrounded by Israeli troops blocking goods and services coming in (although slightly relaxed now but still not nearly enough, and which has almost been condemned by many other states). The air, sea (remember what happened with the Mavi Mamara), and land around it is controlled by Israelis. One side is controlled by Eygptians, but they are the second largest receiver of US aid, and do what the Americans tell them, and in turn the Israelis have big influence over in Washington. It may not be physically occupied, but tbh its not much different now.
Root cause is occupation of Palestine by an oppressive government, Hamas is an outcome of the root cause. Deal with the root cause and the symptoms go away.
For the record, I condemn the rocket attacks as much as I condemn the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli government.
Eh? This is my thread about attacks eminating from Gaza. Which area are you discussing specifically?
I thought we were discussing the reasons behind the attacks and whether the root cause could be addressed rather than the symptoms. My understanding is that although the attacks come from Gaza, the overall occupation of palestinian land is the cause and until that is addressed by a radical change of Israeli government policy the problems will continue.
The issue needs to be addressed politically, not by tit for tat strikes against each other (cf Nothern Ireland conflict).
OK, to make it clear, I do not advocate firing rockets in civilian areas.
My solution is that there needs to be movement on political lines with both sides involved in a paradigm shift. The Israeli government needs to give equal rights to all people who live in the area, whatever their religion and no matter where they came from. Proper compensation needs to be given to people whose land was taken over and equality in resources such as water and energy needs to be a priority. The state of Israel also needs become secular. In return, the indigenous population needs to take part in the democratic process and give up arms and then be involved in the running of the country as a whole. I.e. a single secular state solution.
OK, to make it clear, I do not advocate firing rockets in civilian areas.
That much was clear.
My solution is that there needs to be movement on political lines with both sides involved in a paradigm shift. The Israeli government needs to give equal rights to all people who live in the area, whatever their religion and no matter where they came from. Proper compensation needs to be given to people whose land was taken over and equality in resources such as water and energy needs to be a priority. The state of Israel also needs become secular. In return, the indigenous population needs to take part in the democratic process and give up arms and then be involved in the running of the country as a whole. I.e. a single secular state solution.
Interesting answer, and it sounds very fair. I dont beleieve Israel will ever become a secular state though.
OK, to make it clear, I do not advocate firing rockets in civilian areas.
My solution is that there needs to be movement on political lines with both sides involved in a paradigm shift. The Israeli government needs to give equal rights to all people who live in the area, whatever their religion and no matter where they came from. Proper compensation needs to be given to people whose land was taken over and equality in resources such as water and energy needs to be a priority. The state of Israel also needs become secular. In return, the indigenous population needs to take part in the democratic process and give up arms and then be involved in the running of the country as a whole. I.e. a single secular state solution.
If only that could happen.... still one day we live in hope
A Qassam rocket struck the Ashkelon beach early Tuesday, exploding in an open field near a kindergarten and lightly wounded a girl on her way to school.
Thank goodness that was all. Shame on anyone rushing to help these thugs achieve independence. Gaza needs isolating.
how many palestinians has israel killed today, yesterday .. tomorrow ..
you do know that along with the 10 000 illegally detained without charge - including women and children - israel murders at least 3 palestinians a day be they children or women or elderly ..
and netenyahu claims israel to be a jewish state, is this what judaism is really about ?
how many palestinians has israel killed today, yesterday .. tomorrow ..
you do know that along with the 10 000 illegally detained without charge - including women and children - israel murders at least 3 palestinians a day be they children or women or elderly ..
and netenyahu claims israel to be a jewish state, is this what judaism is really about ?
..and Islam is all about going out and killing non muslims?
So if someone occupies your land and subjugates the population you should just accept it meekly?
Would that mean that you support the Israeli reaction in 1948, when Jordan, Egypt and other Arab Nations occupied the Palestinian territories as laid down in UN Article 181?
Both sides are as bad as the other. They'll never get on and as the Arab League demonstrated 60 odd years ago, they're not agreeable to a 2 state set up.
When you poke a stick into a hornets nest and get badly stung, the sensible thing is to avoid the hornets nest.
Hamas keep poking the Israeli hornets nest, full in the knowledge that Israel will react and civilians will die.
To keep doing so, with that knowledge, just makes no damn sense whatsoever.
Comments
So if someone occupies your land and subjugates the population you should just accept it meekly?
Or to turn your question around " if someone occupies your land and subjugates the population you should just fire rockets at them indescriminantly?"
Whats that Indian fellow called. Gandesh or something?
He seemed fairly succesful...
OK then, if someone occupies you land and subjugates the population, what would you do or recommend?
I thought I made it clear - civil disobediance.
From your earlier question and your non answer, are we to imply that you would also fire rockets indiscriminantly into civilian terrotory?
You do whatever works and causes least death of 'your side' for maximum return, lobbing random rockets is not that I dont believe. I dont see any element of reasonable return from Hamas is doing, maybe I am missing the progress this is making however,
It everyone knows it is not, but it is surrounded by Israeli troops blocking goods and services coming in (although slightly relaxed now but still not nearly enough, and which has almost been condemned by many other states). The air, sea (remember what happened with the Mavi Mamara), and land around it is controlled by Israelis. One side is controlled by Eygptians, but they are the second largest receiver of US aid, and do what the Americans tell them, and in turn the Israelis have big influence over in Washington. It may not be physically occupied, but tbh its not much different now.
The issue is not just about Gaza, it's about the whole area, but maybe you can't see that?
Does this answer your question?
I thought we were discussing the reasons behind the attacks and whether the root cause could be addressed rather than the symptoms. My understanding is that although the attacks come from Gaza, the overall occupation of palestinian land is the cause and until that is addressed by a radical change of Israeli government policy the problems will continue.
The issue needs to be addressed politically, not by tit for tat strikes against each other (cf Nothern Ireland conflict).
No.
What would you advocate?
OK, to make it clear, I do not advocate firing rockets in civilian areas.
My solution is that there needs to be movement on political lines with both sides involved in a paradigm shift. The Israeli government needs to give equal rights to all people who live in the area, whatever their religion and no matter where they came from. Proper compensation needs to be given to people whose land was taken over and equality in resources such as water and energy needs to be a priority. The state of Israel also needs become secular. In return, the indigenous population needs to take part in the democratic process and give up arms and then be involved in the running of the country as a whole. I.e. a single secular state solution.
That much was clear.
Interesting answer, and it sounds very fair. I dont beleieve Israel will ever become a secular state though.
If only that could happen.... still one day we live in hope
how many palestinians has israel killed today, yesterday .. tomorrow ..
you do know that along with the 10 000 illegally detained without charge - including women and children - israel murders at least 3 palestinians a day be they children or women or elderly ..
and netenyahu claims israel to be a jewish state, is this what judaism is really about ?
Would that mean that you support the Israeli reaction in 1948, when Jordan, Egypt and other Arab Nations occupied the Palestinian territories as laid down in UN Article 181?
None. Currently, there is no such place as Palestine.
My turn.
What is your opinion of jihadists firing rockets out of Gaza at a kindergarten?
That's twice in a month I have agreed with you.
Is that how you salve your conscience?
Ask a stupid question..
Why should we have a guilt trip over this?
Both sides are as bad as the other. They'll never get on and as the Arab League demonstrated 60 odd years ago, they're not agreeable to a 2 state set up.
When you poke a stick into a hornets nest and get badly stung, the sensible thing is to avoid the hornets nest.
Hamas keep poking the Israeli hornets nest, full in the knowledge that Israel will react and civilians will die.
To keep doing so, with that knowledge, just makes no damn sense whatsoever.
You don't get a turn when you say something which was said to intentionally antagonise. Forfeit!
It was also a very daft thing to say.