Doctor Who - S8E11 - Dark Water - 1st Nov '14 - BBC One (HD) @ 8.15pm

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8
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    Good
    Enjoyed episode on second viewing will work even better alongside second part. Be interesting to see what comes of the missy line last week about her choosing Clara. SM also talked about the finale being emotional when he wrote it. Can't wait
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    Good
    I have no idea if its already been mentioned in the thread, far too many posts to go through...

    Did anyone else clock the Malcolm Tucker reference?
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,939
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    Excellent
    Just re-posting the radio trailer for next week as it's a new page.

    The Doctor versus The Master versus The Cybermen versus UNIT

    "Well this is a bit exciting."
  • BadcatBadcat Posts: 3,684
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    Excellent
    Pull2Open wrote: »
    I have no idea if its already been mentioned in the thread, far too many posts to go through...

    Did anyone else clock the Malcolm Tucker reference?

    I did, both of them :D
  • Red-EyeRed-Eye Posts: 8,509
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    Excellent
    Got nothing to say except how awesome this episode was! So dark and creepy whilst still adding some humour to it I love it! Especially love the Malcolm Tucker references, really hope they'll do a Comic Relief special with Doc 12 being Malcolm Tucker and have Jamie Mcdonald as his companion. :D

    Am so shocked about Missy being The Master, so did not see that coming! :o I honestly thought she was going to be The Rani! Not sure I like this idea but hey as long as The Doctor doesn't become female I can live with this. :)

    Speaking of The Master/Missy I thought Michelle Gomez did a fantastic job, it's not often you get a key female villain for an overall Series Arc and she's pulled it off amazingly IMHO! :)
    No not at all the worse character in Doctor Who history and I'm including Adric Mel and Dodo in that


    But even in those eps I never got the feeling that she cared for him at all



    It wasn't piss taking though I do that and have it done to me with him it was just outright nasty.


    It always came across she only put up with him because The Doctor didn't want her that way but if he did she would have dumped Rory in the blink of a eye.


    She wasn't even against hitting him if she didn't get her way.

    Even with other people though she was always nasty I just don't think she was a nice person at all and she always had to come first even above her husband and child it was always Amy is the most important.

    If they reversed roles and Rory treated Amy the same way you can bet there would be complaints from fans and women's rights groups (and I would have agreed)


    I would point out I have no problems with Karen Gillan I think she is a great actress pity she was given such a bad role to play but when every script says in it "And now Amy sulks" what can you expect she was much better in Guardians of the Galaxy and I would sooner be around that character than Amy even if it was a even if it was a crazed intergalactic assassin she may kill me but wouldn't depress me.

    You have summed up my feelings about Amy perfectly! Couldn't stand her either but never knew how to construct it as well as you have. :) I think I'll just copy and paste your post in future (but still giving you credit for it of course). ;)

    And completely agree about Karen
    Gillan's performance in Guardians Of The Galaxy, she was awesome as Nebula! :D Which just goes to show it's not Karen Gillan I have a problem with, just the blessed Saint Amy Pond.
  • Octopus_PrimeOctopus_Prime Posts: 851
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    Excellent
    I really enjoyed the episode, "EXCELLENTE!!!", I loved the beginning, can't out fox the Doctor, lol. Also I thought the "Go to hell" line worked so well too, even though I knew it he meant it the other way around.

    The only thing that peed me off was the fact that these episodes have been publicised as a Cybermen finale, Pics in the papers and everything, yet if we didn't know the Cybermen were going to be involved it would have been a ten times better reveal. The lift doors with resemblance to their eyes, the dark water shows just skin, and all we saw were the bones. Oh well.....lol

    I had a bit of a theory about Missy being the master through watching Emergency Awesome on youtube, although it was kinda swept under the rug with what she said what it stood for. I think a female Timelord/Timelady will be interesting, hope they keep her round for a while though, rather than a regeneration at the end of this series, And I hope they explain a little of what may have happened between 'The End of Time' and now.
  • bennythedipbennythedip Posts: 2,343
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    Got a feeling that the resolution next week will involve some sort of reset similar to star trek voyager year of hell and everything will be ok and danny will not be dead. That or everything is just an illusion or a dream. Not sure missy us really the master. Why no references to the drums? Watched this drunk last night, thankfully watched fresh this morning.
  • AbominationAbomination Posts: 6,483
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    Excellent
    I've seen so many comments from people saying they'll accept that The Master can be female, so long as it never happens to the Doctor.

    It's somewhat like the problem with parents of gay children... they're okay with being gay in general, so long as it isn't their son or daughter.

    I personally think Michelle Gomez is sensational in the role, sold to me faster than John Simm ever was. It's an interesting direction, not that I had any doubts about a female regeneration - the producers have good form for picking the right actors for leading and major roles on Doctor Who. Even my least favourite Doctor's and companions are well-acted.
  • Residents FanResidents Fan Posts: 9,204
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    Average
    claire2281 wrote: »
    I do agree and for me that is a bit of a problem - it needs to remain a family show and that part of the plot wasn't suitable for children. Not because it was 'scary' (scary monsters like the Mummy are great for kids!) but because it was too emotionally disturbing and the kind of thing a child would dwell on. If they want to make it a show for adults then they're going to need to improve the character writing an awful lot otherwise the show will be stuck in a no-man's land - not suitable for the younger audience and lacking the depth expected from an older one.

    Yeah, I think this idea is problematic. The idea that corpses could still suffer pain
    is disturbing, especially for small children who might have deceased relatives
    who were cremated. :o
  • Residents FanResidents Fan Posts: 9,204
    Forum Member
    Average
    I personally think Michelle Gomez is sensational in the role, sold to me faster than John Simm ever was. It's an interesting direction, not that I had any doubts about a female regeneration - the producers have good form for picking the right actors for leading and major roles on Doctor Who. Even my least favourite Doctor's and companions are well-acted.

    We know the Master has stolen other people's forms before instead of
    regenerating (Keeper of Traken, the TVM) so maybe this time he stole
    a female body.

    More fodder for the "Is Moffat a sexist" debate?
  • James FrederickJames Frederick Posts: 53,184
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    Excellent
    We know the Master has stolen other people's forms before instead of
    regenerating (Keeper of Traken, the TVM) so maybe this time he stole
    a female body.

    More fodder for the "Is Moffat a sexist" debate?

    The body had two hearts so if he did steal a body it would have to be a Time Ladies body
  • Virgil TracyVirgil Tracy Posts: 26,805
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    it's a bit odd that Clara heard nothing of the crash on the phone .

    could be just dramatic license , but ...
  • KoquillionKoquillion Posts: 1,902
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    Excellent
    Yeah, I think this idea is problematic. The idea that corpses could still suffer pain
    is disturbing, especially for small children who might have deceased relatives
    who were cremated. :o

    The thought of being buried when I died and then coming back to life used to genuinely frighten me when I was a kid. That was after reading about the supposed origins of 'dead ringers'. When my Gran died, I was very concerned and kept asking my Dad if they were sure she was dead!! Kids get worried about this stuff with or without Doctor Who, and they get over it with the support and understanding of parents or other loved ones.
  • andy1231andy1231 Posts: 5,100
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    Rubbish!
    Already aired my feelings as to why I disliked this episode and in particular about Missy being the master so won't go over them. One question that I don't think anyone has asked, unless I've missed it, is why would The Master choose a female body/personality. The very fact that he has always been "The Master" a male and a very dominant male at that, makes me wonder why the change of sex ?
    Also I must be one of the few on her who isn't impressed with Michelle Gomez's performance. Far too twee and coquettish for me to take her as the Master seriously. Come on why would he/she act like that ?
    I know I'm in the minority on this buts its just how I feel about it.
  • oathyoathy Posts: 32,629
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    Excellent
    Anyone else getting a bit of a mater vibe from Seb ?
    I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could throw him just watching again on BBC3. His encounter with Danny in the office
  • Virgil TracyVirgil Tracy Posts: 26,805
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    andy1231 wrote: »
    Already aired my feelings as to why I disliked this episode and in particular about Missy being the master so won't go over them. One question that I don't think anyone has asked, unless I've missed it, is why would The Master choose a female body/personality. The very fact that he has always been "The Master" a male and a very dominant male at that, makes me wonder why the change of sex ?
    Also I must be one of the few on her who isn't impressed with Michelle Gomez's performance. Far too twee and coquettish for me to take her as the Master seriously. Come on why would he/she act like that ?
    I know I'm in the minority on this buts its just how I feel about it.

    I don't find it that odd , time lords live a long time , I can imagine that after so many lives it might be just interesting - what would it be like to be a woman ?
    I've thought about it , I've often thought it would be interesting to be a woman for a week just to find out what its like .

    having said that , I'm actually one of those that think the Doctor should always be a bloke , I'm all for changing stuff around but at the same time I also think some things should stay the same .


    .
  • eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    Excellent
    andy1231 wrote: »
    Already aired my feelings as to why I disliked this episode and in particular about Missy being the master so won't go over them. One question that I don't think anyone has asked, unless I've missed it, is why would The Master choose a female body/personality. The very fact that he has always been "The Master" a male and a very dominant male at that, makes me wonder why the change of sex ?
    Also I must be one of the few on her who isn't impressed with Michelle Gomez's performance. Far too twee and coquettish for me to take her as the Master seriously. Come on why would he/she act like that ?
    I know I'm in the minority on this buts its just how I feel about it.

    Remember the "He's got a Scottish accent, I think I'll keep that"

    How about The Master is actually after the Doctors body, being not too keen on his present one.

    That will pull the rug out from under people next week.
  • jeff_vaderjeff_vader Posts: 938
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    Excellent
    Having been seriously unimpressed (bar Capaldi) so far, that was a stonker. PC, Gomez and Addison were just a sheer joy to watch. But still underwhelmed by mawkish Clara and Danny scenes (though I thought Coleman was great in the crater). Still can't decide though whether the PC/Gomez/Addison scenes were so good intrinsically because of Moffat's writing, or whether they're such good actors they can make even halfway decent lines sound great (probably somewhere inbetween?). I wonder how much input/flexibility they have into lines/changes anyway?
  • Jules_ThornleyJules_Thornley Posts: 2,997
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    Good
    oathy wrote: »
    Anyone else getting a bit of a mater vibe from Seb ?
    I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could throw him just watching again on BBC3. His encounter with Danny in the office

    Yeah Seb would probably make a great cunning/sly Master.. Loved his character in that sense.

    No problems with Missy master being female. No probs with the doctor being female in the future.. In fact Jenna Coleman showed how well a female doctor could work when Clara took control of the sonic screwdriver. I preferred Clara being the doctor to Clara being Clara!!
  • NoseyLouieNoseyLouie Posts: 5,651
    Forum Member
    Excellent
    Pull2Open wrote: »
    I have no idea if its already been mentioned in the thread, far too many posts to go through...

    Did anyone else clock the Malcolm Tucker reference?

    Yeah! swearyness on the psycic paper, lol psycik..phsycic..lol memory meltdown..help lol!
  • jaydogzjaydogz Posts: 352
    Forum Member
    Excellent
    Voted excellent, loved it :)

    On a side note, if Jenna is leaving could part 2 be her exit?
    In that she does give up her life to be with Danny.
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
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    I do have to applaud the show for delving into such a dark concept, even if it is part of the Masters 'scam' and is all fakery. Despite my reservations about a few things, mainly in terms of companions characters and such, hats off to Mr. Moffat and the BBC for having such things in a family drama show on primetime Saturday night. In that regard I would not have it any other way. Doctor Who is the perfect show for it and always has been. But man, that is one hell of a dark scam The Master has going.:D

    I think this episode also has some of Moffats finest humour in it. The entire Doctor and Clara first meet Missy scene is electric, from the performances to the dialogue.

    Sebs analogy of what 'the afterlife' is (if babies in the womb could communicate with each other/it is 'Just more life than you were expecting' Is for me Moffat at his finest. Wonderful writing.

    But flip the coin and it is hard for me to get beyond not caring for Clara and Danny and their scenes together never quite pull it off.

    The volcano/TARDIS keys scene towards the start of the episode becomes pretty much redundant, overlong an overplayed on a second viewing I thought. I found myself fast forwarding it. (Sherlock editing and all):)

    A frustrating episode for this viewer. Some of Steven Moffats finest writing mixed with his Achilles heel. Underdeveloped characters that are then supposed to carry the emotional heart of an episode. Two young lovers and they could not think of anything in order to establish that Danny really was Danny other than the first restaurant they went to?

    Clara has now been in the show for a series and a half yet, for me it really could have been anyone in this episode. I dont mean that as a slight on Jenna Coleman either. She does a great job with such a wishy washy flim flammey character. Unfortunately it isnt enough. Drama, especially character drama needs the writing to have continually invested in them before tugging at the heart strings. Moffat's Achilles heel.

    Flip the coin again and Peter Capaldi, Michelle Gomez and Chris Addison are all on stunning form delivering Moffat at his sharpest dialogue. Worth many a rewatch alone.



    For some strange reason I came away from a second viewing almost thinking Seb was The Master. God knows why:confused::confused:

    **edit**
    just noticed Im not alone in that.
    **



    The Doctor keeps a spare key in a copy of Audrey Niffeneggers The Time Traveller's Wife.
  • NoseyLouieNoseyLouie Posts: 5,651
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    Excellent
    oathy wrote: »
    Anyone else getting a bit of a mater vibe from Seb ?
    I wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could throw him just watching again on BBC3. His encounter with Danny in the office
    Yes he plays slimy admin/beaurocrats well trying to worm up the ladder muhaha..he has become the pr from hell does his job well..Chris Addison great actor, I was actually impressed he played a bit hard nosed unfeeling, but trying to sell...perfect fit..prefect fit :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 497
    Forum Member
    Two young lovers and they could not think of anything in order to establish that Danny really was Danny other than the first restaurant they went to?
    Of course, they could! And Danny probably could too. That's not the point. The point is Danny was put on the spot and his mind went blank. (No, not like that! You know what I mean! ;-) )
  • Phoenix LazarusPhoenix Lazarus Posts: 17,305
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    Why no references to the drums?

    The drummer's broke his wrist? His neighbours have got a noise injunction? He's joined a local group?
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