I agree with him. Staying at home with only four walls to stare at is extremely depressing and makes you feel ill. Going to work provides you with social contacts and a feeling of self worth as well as money.
I finished work in 1970 to raise my family and have never worked since so I must be in a pretty bad state. :eek:
I finished work in 1970 to raise my family and have never worked since so I must be in a pretty bad state. :eek:
I should probably be in a padded cell by now
Please don't worry you can have some of my medication it must work because me not leaving the flat for twelve years i should be a raving lunatic by now
I agree with Nick. I also have a great deal of sympathy with rusty123's comment in another thread about left-wing anti-capitalist rabble-rousing toss-pots.
I am unemployed for about 15 months I did some IT mentoring, that was easily the best I have ever felt, yet it was volunteering, made me feel alot better about myself, and adding some genuine new skills and experince to my CV, that shelf stacking could ever do. Experience of planning a class, that kind of thing. I also "learnt" (the now all important) time keeping skills doing it.
You've never worked in a large shop then. Very social environment, always busy, always things to do.
I have actually! And those I saw on the shop floor seemed quite isolated compared to all the chatter going on at the checkouts where I was. But maybe that was just my branch.
I have actually! And those I saw on the shop floor seemed quite isolated compared to all the chatter going on at the checkouts where I was. But maybe that was just my branch.
no I agree, have had a job shelf stacking, you can be isolated.
TBH I think any talk of the "social" side to work, speaks to a misunderstanding of retail, the office maybe more social, but retail less so, even the apparently chatty till staff, do not have the freedom to discuss what they will, what they say is controlled, and its really just a case of, do you sound genuine, or do you sound like a robot saying the same few controlled lines all the time.
That doesn't even sound like him talking. It sounds like a Tory talking. He really is a complete tool, isn't he?
Also, I'd have thought being forced to work for nothing would only fuel and create depression...and I don't see how staking shelves would create many oppertunities for forming friendships as it strikes me as a lonely, monotonous job.
Do you have experience of being unemployed with no daily routine and no hope of being employed?
I have actually! And those I saw on the shop floor seemed quite isolated compared to all the chatter going on at the checkouts where I was. But maybe that was just my branch.
But then you'd understand that by the nature of their job they are isolated, whereas people on the checkout are all sat in proximaty of each other.
Not sure how you can indicate that working with people wouldn't give the potential for better social activity than not working. Every working environment I worked in has led the having friends, and I've worked in plenty of minimum wage jobs.
I gaurantee if this 'Work for JSA' becomes widespread, most minimum wage workers will find themselves sacked then rehired courtesy of the jobcentre.
This whole scheme is about cheap labour and making money for former members of the Bullingdon club.
And it f*%king stinks.
Clegg is a lying eejit. lt is not in a any way voluntary: benefits are docked if anyone refuses to take part in the scheme or does a no-show on the day.
It is voluntary, once a placement has been found there is a 14 day cooling off period if the job isn't suitable. This was quoted from the employment minister yesterday on 5live.
I gaurantee if this 'Work for JSA' becomes widespread, most minimum wage workers will find themselves sacked then rehired courtesy of the jobcentre.
This whole scheme is about cheap labour and making money for former members of the Bullingdon club.
And it f*%king stinks.
It is voluntary, once a placement has been found there is a 14 day cooling off period if the job isn't suitable. This was quoted from the employment minister yesterday on 5live.
And Gov't ministers never lie... ...erm, spin... ...do they?
I agree with Nick. I also have a great deal of sympathy with rusty123's comment in another thread about left-wing anti-capitalist rabble-rousing toss-pots.
So what about the many people who work from home, do they not get lonely & depressed ?
The scheme is only voluntary for some people; for many it is compulsory.
Only found this so far by IDS,
It is up to young people to decide, voluntarily, whether they wish to take part in the scheme, and they can pull out of their placement during the first week without sanction.
If we could only find where he says people and not just young people.
The scheme is only voluntary for some people; for many it is compulsory.
That still goes against the point that people will loose their benefits if they decide not to turn up for work. The people involved have the option and are not forced into any sort of labour they dont like.
But for the person which it isn't voluntary you are assuming it's not in their best interest. Surely it's best to keep someone active after 13 weeks of searching for jobs. I imagine it can get disheartening being rejected for 13 weeks.
All we need to make sure is that the people on this program are protected and companies are not taking advantage of the program by replacing actual paid positions.
So what about the many people who work from home, do they not get lonely & depressed ?
But they are working though, they are getting paid, they have a focus, they have a sense of worth, they are dealing with colleagues, they belong....... and all the other benefits there are from being employed. Although I do occasionally work from home and it can be lonely when you are used to working in a busy office.
Fortunately I have not been unemployed long term, but I can imagine it can get to you if working is something you really want to do.
Obviously he's lying through his teeth, he had to come up with something. But protecting people from loneliness and depression? **** off Clegg.
I'm suprised anyone is saying this is a good idea, not being funny but how can you be so naive? I am genuinely baffled.
We are now in a situation whereby there is work to be done but insufficient resources to pay for it. What better way is there to give the young School leaver experience in actualy getting up in the morning and giving them something to do that contributes to Society. Those who take part and shine will go onto better and brighter things.
Try giving them an actual wage. And as for going on to brighter things, this scheme can only make it harder to get a job. Think about it, tesco can churn in and out hundreds/thousands of people they never have to pay a proper wage. With an endless queue of unemployed people, there's no incentive to choose anyone for permanent employment. Even if you were hard working and 'shine'.
I agree with him. Staying at home with only four walls to stare at is extremely depressing and makes you feel ill. Going to work provides you with social contacts and a feeling of self worth as well as money.
I understand what you're getting at, but no one will get self worth working for less than minimum wage, and more than likely not having a job at the end.
1) There are other people there. You can talk to them, so it isn't lonely.
2) It is monotonous, but then again so is virtually all work.
I'd swap my job for shelf-stacking any day if it wasn't so poorly paid.
People in this scheme aren't even getting that 'poorly paid' wage.
Jesus wept, it's amazing how someone being misquoted (ie left-wing extemists) becomes fact here on DS, added to that the constant example of shelf stacker as if that is the only option on this Workfair scheme. Even when people say Workfair is not compulsory no-one believes them despite no evidence to contrary.
It's not really worth continuing the debate, people have already made their minds up despite the only information that they have being gleamed from the campaign against the scheme. But hey, they're not the government so they couldn't have an agenda could they?
Comments
I finished work in 1970 to raise my family and have never worked since so I must be in a pretty bad state. :eek:
I should probably be in a padded cell by now
Please don't worry you can have some of my medication it must work because me not leaving the flat for twelve years i should be a raving lunatic by now
I have actually! And those I saw on the shop floor seemed quite isolated compared to all the chatter going on at the checkouts where I was. But maybe that was just my branch.
TBH I think any talk of the "social" side to work, speaks to a misunderstanding of retail, the office maybe more social, but retail less so, even the apparently chatty till staff, do not have the freedom to discuss what they will, what they say is controlled, and its really just a case of, do you sound genuine, or do you sound like a robot saying the same few controlled lines all the time.
Do you have experience of being unemployed with no daily routine and no hope of being employed?
But then you'd understand that by the nature of their job they are isolated, whereas people on the checkout are all sat in proximaty of each other.
Not sure how you can indicate that working with people wouldn't give the potential for better social activity than not working. Every working environment I worked in has led the having friends, and I've worked in plenty of minimum wage jobs.
This whole scheme is about cheap labour and making money for former members of the Bullingdon club.
And it f*%king stinks.
It is voluntary, once a placement has been found there is a 14 day cooling off period if the job isn't suitable. This was quoted from the employment minister yesterday on 5live.
And it's falling apart as we speak.
And Gov't ministers never lie... ...erm, spin... ...do they?
So this isn't the truth?
The cooling off period lasts 1 week.
The scheme is only voluntary for some people; for many it is compulsory.
So what about the many people who work from home, do they not get lonely & depressed ?
So, the government are trying to protect people from loneliness and depression, and anyone who opposes it are left wing extremists?
Pass the aspirin.
Only found this so far by IDS,
It is up to young people to decide, voluntarily, whether they wish to take part in the scheme, and they can pull out of their placement during the first week without sanction.
If we could only find where he says people and not just young people.
That still goes against the point that people will loose their benefits if they decide not to turn up for work. The people involved have the option and are not forced into any sort of labour they dont like.
But for the person which it isn't voluntary you are assuming it's not in their best interest. Surely it's best to keep someone active after 13 weeks of searching for jobs. I imagine it can get disheartening being rejected for 13 weeks.
All we need to make sure is that the people on this program are protected and companies are not taking advantage of the program by replacing actual paid positions.
But they are working though, they are getting paid, they have a focus, they have a sense of worth, they are dealing with colleagues, they belong....... and all the other benefits there are from being employed. Although I do occasionally work from home and it can be lonely when you are used to working in a busy office.
Fortunately I have not been unemployed long term, but I can imagine it can get to you if working is something you really want to do.
I expect there are some who do, but I don't imagine they'd be any less lonely and depressed not working, do you?
Obviously he's lying through his teeth, he had to come up with something. But protecting people from loneliness and depression? **** off Clegg.
I'm suprised anyone is saying this is a good idea, not being funny but how can you be so naive? I am genuinely baffled.
Try giving them an actual wage. And as for going on to brighter things, this scheme can only make it harder to get a job. Think about it, tesco can churn in and out hundreds/thousands of people they never have to pay a proper wage. With an endless queue of unemployed people, there's no incentive to choose anyone for permanent employment. Even if you were hard working and 'shine'.
I understand what you're getting at, but no one will get self worth working for less than minimum wage, and more than likely not having a job at the end.
People in this scheme aren't even getting that 'poorly paid' wage.
working gives a wage which is the only guarantee
It's not really worth continuing the debate, people have already made their minds up despite the only information that they have being gleamed from the campaign against the scheme. But hey, they're not the government so they couldn't have an agenda could they?
That's because it is compulsory for some people.
Or, if it isn't JC staff ore forcing people on to it by claiming it is.
One can only hope it fails.
A system whereby a rich man gets all of the rewards of a poor man's labour is no different to the workhouse, which was white slavery.