Just another BBC, CNN type of documentary, that is for propaganda. Whatever happened in the filming, we all know at the end they want to show one image. That`s how bad Russia is in so many ways.
For people sitting in their houses in England or United States (talking for similar CNN programmes) will just look at that this and start believing whatever is forced on to us in that 1 hour programme.
But how about, go to Russia, meet the people (good and bad like every country), read and learn their history, then come out with an opinion.
I have been lucky enough to gone to many different countries for different reasons. so I have seen many different cultures. The biggest mistake the English people do, is just believe every thing that is on these programmes.
For example Ross Kemp went to Poland and talked to football hooligans. I stayed there for work about 6 months and as a guy that likes football, I went to many matches and met loads of those "hooligans".
They all saw me as a guest and were some of the kindest people I have met. Did they have fights? yes. But from what I saw they only fought other guys that wanted to fights. Apart from those fights, we would go to pubs together, talk about football, life etc
But someone who just creates a view on Ross Kemp`s programme, would believe they are people who want to fight every second, hate every foreign person etc,
Well same goes for this programme. I didn`t spend 6 months in Russia but I have been and these aren`t the people you see everyday.
It is like going to one bad district in London, showing a few kids with knives and guns. Then saying Britain is all the same.
Just another BBC, CNN type of documentary, that is for propaganda. Whatever happened in the filming, we all know at the end they want to show one image. That`s how bad Russia is in so many ways.
For people sitting in their houses in England or United States (talking for similar CNN programmes) will just look at that this and start believing whatever is forced on to us in that 1 hour programme.
But how about, go to Russia, meet the people (good and bad like every country), read and learn their history, then come out with an opinion.
I have been lucky enough to gone to many different countries for different reasons. so I have seen many different cultures. The biggest mistake the English people do, is just believe every thing that is on these programmes.
For example Ross Kemp went to Poland and talked to football hooligans. I stayed there for work about 6 months and as a guy that likes football, I went to many matches and met loads of those "hooligans".
They all saw me as a guest and were some of the kindest people I have met. Did they have fights? yes. But from what I saw they only fought other guys that wanted to fights. Apart from those fights, we would go to pubs together, talk about football, life etc
But someone who just creates a view on Ross Kemp`s programme, would believe they are people who want to fight every second, hate every foreign person etc,
Well same goes for this programme. I didn`t spend 6 months in Russia but I have been and these aren`t the people you see everyday.
It is like going to one bad district in London, showing a few kids with knives and guns. Then saying Britain is all the same.
Propaganda for who? The BBC isn't the government, so why would they be trying to send a message that Russia is so awful? Same goes for CNN. They aren't a US government TV station. Perhaps you think Fox TV would make a more balanced documentary? I can just see them singing Putin's praises.
Having (wrongly) attacked the BBC for taking a swipe at Russians in general, you do exactly the same yourself by saying the English people make the mistake of believing all they see on TV. Ironic, eh?
Anyway you are completely missing the point. This wasn't meant to show what the whole of Russia is like. Just what an extreme section of the Russia population is like, in their own words. There are of course homophobes and racists in the UK, but the difference in Russia, and much of Eastern Europe, is that such attitudes are not discouraged by their governments, and in the case of homophobia is actively legislated for. So it's quite reasonable to make a documentary about those Russian people that think this way.
I too have been to Russia, and the people there are generally very warm, welcoming and friendly. But I wouldn't want to mix with the monkey chanting racists in a football stadium, there or anywhere else. You may think it's OK as long as they only fight other hooligans, but innocent people get caught up in it too. Not to mention non-white players who have to put up with horrendous abuse from the crowd. That's OK by you?
Propaganda for who? The BBC isn't the government, so why would they be trying to send a message that Russia is so awful? Same goes for CNN. They aren't a US government TV station. Perhaps you think Fox TV would make a more balanced documentary? I can just see them singing Putin's praises.
Having (wrongly) attacked the BBC for taking a swipe at Russians in general, you do exactly the same yourself by saying the English people make the mistake of believing all they see on TV. Ironic, eh?
Anyway you are completely missing the point. This wasn't meant to show what the whole of Russia is like. Just what an extreme section of the Russia population is like, in their own words. There are of course homophobes and racists in the UK, but the difference in Russia, and much of Eastern Europe, is that such attitudes are not discouraged by their governments, and in the case of homophobia is actively legislated for. So it's quite reasonable to make a documentary about those Russian people that think this way.
I too have been to Russia, and the people there are generally very warm, welcoming and friendly. But I wouldn't want to mix with the monkey chanting racists in a football stadium, there or anywhere else. You may think it's OK as long as they only fight other hooligans, but innocent people get caught up in it too. Not to mention non-white players who have to put up with horrendous abuse from the crowd. That's OK by you?
really good post, said what I had wanted to but much better
It doesn`t matter which party is in power, in UK andUSA there is always a hatred towards the Eastern bloc from the cold war era. Bush, Obama, Cameron, Blair, Cnn, Fox, Bbc, Itv etc. Doesn`t matter you will never have a programme glorifying any part of Putin or Russian politics.
But I wouldn't want to mix with the monkey chanting racists in a football stadium, there or anywhere else. You may think it's OK as long as they only fight other hooligans, but innocent people get caught up in it too. Not to mention non-white players who have to put up with horrendous abuse from the crowd. That's OK by you?
Show me an incident where this has happened? Especially in Poland the hooligans and normal fans never meet. They stand at separate places in the stadium and they fight nowhere near normal fans, so it is wrong to say they get stuck in the middle of it.
As for the non white players getting abuse, this is done by a very small minority. There are the same amount of people in UK as well. To create an image of Polish and Russians are racist, abuse non white people is completely wrong.
The black English players got abused in Spain few years ago. But i believe many of us have been to Spain and can anyone say it is a bad place? Just because a few guys were abusive doesn`t mean Spain or Spanish people are bad.
Also to be honest everyone is allowed to hate anyone they want. As long as I don`t physically or verbally abuse anyone I can for example hate all Germans, all gays, or all the people from Manchester.
By the way I`m not pro-Russia or anything. I`m just against people in western countries, having mainly bad opinions about the eastern countries just because of a few news they see on TV.
Serbia, Bosnia,Greece, Russia, Poland etc these are all places with good culture and tradition. Just because they have some different values or just because the TV likes to show the 1% bad issues, it doesn`t make these parts bad.
It doesn`t matter which party is in power, in UK andUSA there is always a hatred towards the Eastern bloc from the cold war era. Bush, Obama, Cameron, Blair, Cnn, Fox, Bbc, Itv etc. Doesn`t matter you will never have a programme glorifying any part of Putin or Russian politics.
You don't see too many programmes glorifying Obama for that matter. Why on earth would you expect to see one glorifying Putin? Certainly no friend of freedom or democracy. However, there have been positive documentaries about Russia and the ex-Eastern bloc countries in the past, on BBC as it happens. Michael Palin did a travel series in the ex-communist countries, and also through Russia in Pole to Pole. Before that there was a very open minded series about daily life in the USSR as it then was called "Comrades". ITV have been showing Joanna Lumley on a train journey through China and Russia this month. I haven't seen it but she's hardly likely to be seeking out the worst in the place. Still if you insist it's only bad things that get shown I guess I won't convince you.
Back to this programme, it was intended to try and look at the extremist views of some people and talk to them about it. There have been similar documentaries about extremists in the US.
Show me an incident where this has happened? Especially in Poland the hooligans and normal fans never meet. They stand at separate places in the stadium and they fight nowhere near normal fans, so it is wrong to say they get stuck in the middle of it.
As for the non white players getting abuse, this is done by a very small minority. There are the same amount of people in UK as well. To create an image of Polish and Russians are racist, abuse non white people is completely wrong.
The black English players got abused in Spain few years ago. But i believe many of us have been to Spain and can anyone say it is a bad place? Just because a few guys were abusive doesn`t mean Spain or Spanish people are bad.
Also to be honest everyone is allowed to hate anyone they want. As long as I don`t physically or verbally abuse anyone I can for example hate all Germans, all gays, or all the people from Manchester.
By the way I`m not pro-Russia or anything. I`m just against people in western countries, having mainly bad opinions about the eastern countries just because of a few news they see on TV.
Serbia, Bosnia,Greece, Russia, Poland etc these are all places with good culture and tradition. Just because they have some different values or just because the TV likes to show the 1% bad issues, it doesn`t make these parts bad.
Black players in Russia, Ukraine, Poland, etc get far worse abuse than such players in Spain. It's not a tiny minority, all the ultra style supporters do it, and they are a large section of the crowd.
I'm amazed you are so keen to defend football hooligans because they only attack other hooligans. There was a documentary before Euro 2012 about violence and racism in Poland and Ukraine which showed scenes where non-ultra spectators got attacked simply because they were in the way. I can't find it online. Even if they don't attack non-ultras it's still nothing to be complacent about.
I`ve been to hundreds of football games and never got stuck in the middle of a fight. Also how can you blame all the Ultra type of fans? There about 5,000 that stand and sing, call themselves ultras at many clubs are they all racist?
And back to the Russia issue, i just think it`s wrong many people in England believe what happens in this country is right.
I mean just because it is the western world doesn`t mean every rule is right. So it seems funny to me when people moan at other countries cultures.
For example they have more traditional family values in countries like Greece, Italy etc. You have 3 generations all living together, but for many English people this is a funny situation, or only is done if they can`t afford to move out.
They frown upon homosexuality, nothing wrong in that as long as their is no physical or verbal abuse.
it`s things like this i`m trying to say. They have there own culture England has their culture. Doesn`t mean there is a right or a wrong.
it`s things like this i`m trying to say. They have there own culture England has their culture. Doesn`t mean there is a right or a wrong.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
It is absolutely fine for respective countries to have their own culture, however it that culture is one that abuses human rights and have a culture of hate against an innocent and harmless section of their people, then yes, it is very wrong.
I`ve been to hundreds of football games and never got stuck in the middle of a fight. Also how can you blame all the Ultra type of fans? There about 5,000 that stand and sing, call themselves ultras at many clubs are they all racist?
And back to the Russia issue, i just think it`s wrong many people in England believe what happens in this country is right.
I mean just because it is the western world doesn`t mean every rule is right. So it seems funny to me when people moan at other countries cultures.
For example they have more traditional family values in countries like Greece, Italy etc. You have 3 generations all living together, but for many English people this is a funny situation, or only is done if they can`t afford to move out.
They frown upon homosexuality, nothing wrong in that as long as their is no physical or verbal abuse.
it`s things like this i`m trying to say. They have there own culture England has their culture. Doesn`t mean there is a right or a wrong.
I used the word ultra to differentiate between extreme fanatics looking for violence and the supporters who sing and chant.
Of course Russia isn't the same, but it's a very sophisticated culture with a long history. It should be progressing, not moving backwards to more prejudice. There's nothing especially Russian about homophobia or racism either.
You are welcome to your own opinions. But you can't expect a documentary focussing on extreme right wing opinions in Russia to try and reflect the entire country, which was your original issue. By definition it will portray the extremism. The important thing is we then see the extremists through their own eyes. We might learn something from this. Far better than trying to pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't matter.
Comments
Yes, she looked like a psychopath
Verring into a possible dark side.
Very interesting series.
For people sitting in their houses in England or United States (talking for similar CNN programmes) will just look at that this and start believing whatever is forced on to us in that 1 hour programme.
But how about, go to Russia, meet the people (good and bad like every country), read and learn their history, then come out with an opinion.
I have been lucky enough to gone to many different countries for different reasons. so I have seen many different cultures. The biggest mistake the English people do, is just believe every thing that is on these programmes.
For example Ross Kemp went to Poland and talked to football hooligans. I stayed there for work about 6 months and as a guy that likes football, I went to many matches and met loads of those "hooligans".
They all saw me as a guest and were some of the kindest people I have met. Did they have fights? yes. But from what I saw they only fought other guys that wanted to fights. Apart from those fights, we would go to pubs together, talk about football, life etc
But someone who just creates a view on Ross Kemp`s programme, would believe they are people who want to fight every second, hate every foreign person etc,
Well same goes for this programme. I didn`t spend 6 months in Russia but I have been and these aren`t the people you see everyday.
It is like going to one bad district in London, showing a few kids with knives and guns. Then saying Britain is all the same.
Having (wrongly) attacked the BBC for taking a swipe at Russians in general, you do exactly the same yourself by saying the English people make the mistake of believing all they see on TV. Ironic, eh?
Anyway you are completely missing the point. This wasn't meant to show what the whole of Russia is like. Just what an extreme section of the Russia population is like, in their own words. There are of course homophobes and racists in the UK, but the difference in Russia, and much of Eastern Europe, is that such attitudes are not discouraged by their governments, and in the case of homophobia is actively legislated for. So it's quite reasonable to make a documentary about those Russian people that think this way.
I too have been to Russia, and the people there are generally very warm, welcoming and friendly. But I wouldn't want to mix with the monkey chanting racists in a football stadium, there or anywhere else. You may think it's OK as long as they only fight other hooligans, but innocent people get caught up in it too. Not to mention non-white players who have to put up with horrendous abuse from the crowd. That's OK by you?
really good post, said what I had wanted to but much better
As for the non white players getting abuse, this is done by a very small minority. There are the same amount of people in UK as well. To create an image of Polish and Russians are racist, abuse non white people is completely wrong.
The black English players got abused in Spain few years ago. But i believe many of us have been to Spain and can anyone say it is a bad place? Just because a few guys were abusive doesn`t mean Spain or Spanish people are bad.
Also to be honest everyone is allowed to hate anyone they want. As long as I don`t physically or verbally abuse anyone I can for example hate all Germans, all gays, or all the people from Manchester.
By the way I`m not pro-Russia or anything. I`m just against people in western countries, having mainly bad opinions about the eastern countries just because of a few news they see on TV.
Serbia, Bosnia,Greece, Russia, Poland etc these are all places with good culture and tradition. Just because they have some different values or just because the TV likes to show the 1% bad issues, it doesn`t make these parts bad.
Back to this programme, it was intended to try and look at the extremist views of some people and talk to them about it. There have been similar documentaries about extremists in the US.
Black players in Russia, Ukraine, Poland, etc get far worse abuse than such players in Spain. It's not a tiny minority, all the ultra style supporters do it, and they are a large section of the crowd.
I'm amazed you are so keen to defend football hooligans because they only attack other hooligans. There was a documentary before Euro 2012 about violence and racism in Poland and Ukraine which showed scenes where non-ultra spectators got attacked simply because they were in the way. I can't find it online. Even if they don't attack non-ultras it's still nothing to be complacent about.
And back to the Russia issue, i just think it`s wrong many people in England believe what happens in this country is right.
I mean just because it is the western world doesn`t mean every rule is right. So it seems funny to me when people moan at other countries cultures.
For example they have more traditional family values in countries like Greece, Italy etc. You have 3 generations all living together, but for many English people this is a funny situation, or only is done if they can`t afford to move out.
They frown upon homosexuality, nothing wrong in that as long as their is no physical or verbal abuse.
it`s things like this i`m trying to say. They have there own culture England has their culture. Doesn`t mean there is a right or a wrong.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
It is absolutely fine for respective countries to have their own culture, however it that culture is one that abuses human rights and have a culture of hate against an innocent and harmless section of their people, then yes, it is very wrong.
Of course Russia isn't the same, but it's a very sophisticated culture with a long history. It should be progressing, not moving backwards to more prejudice. There's nothing especially Russian about homophobia or racism either.
You are welcome to your own opinions. But you can't expect a documentary focussing on extreme right wing opinions in Russia to try and reflect the entire country, which was your original issue. By definition it will portray the extremism. The important thing is we then see the extremists through their own eyes. We might learn something from this. Far better than trying to pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't matter.