Actually Denise is right, whether you like it or not children have to be born and society as a whole should hold the responsibilty of caring for these children not just the parents, it's up to us all to create a livable enviroment for everyone and to make the early years for children easy so in return they can help us when we get old and can't manage ourselves.
I'm not sure exactly what that means, indeed i'm sure interpretations vary wildly.
Childre *need* to be born if the human race is to continue, but it doesn't *need* to continue in order for the world to still exist. Nature doesn't have a preference one way or the other. Hmmm.
My husband travels long haul every 28days and he says whats worse than crying babies is the nasty ignorant folk that are moaning and complaining about the crying children . 9 times out of 10 he finds babies only cry for 10 mins during landing and taking off which isnt going to kill anyone .
He once nearly missed his connecting flight as he helped a lady and her stuff off a plane because someone like the OP had moaned at her so much she was crying because she felt so bad that she had upset him by not being able to console her child during a part of the flight. People can be so quick to complain about children until they have there own and realise that life is not just all about THEM !!
I like the idea of seperate flights and as a parent i would quite happily pay MORE to be away from people like the OP .
My point was the selfishness of the parents, who would subject their child to the rigours of a long haul flight. I didnt mention other passengers. Maybe you should re-read my post, as you have misread it.
As for the bonding, thats total rubbish, a baby, meeting some relatives for a couple of weeks, wont remember them once they get back home. Like I said erlier, its more to do with the paretns wanting to show-off their new baby.
It depends on the situation, if the child cries for 5 mins and then is quite, then there is no case to whine. If on the other hand, the babies cries for 30mins+ at a time, then I dont think it is whining, and they are total entitled to feel aggrieved.
Hi ACU - agree with your post and also agree with family/adult only flights. I find it quite sad that some parents think it is their inalienable right to bring a baby onto a long haul flight as obviously it is about their rights and those of the other passengers do not come into it. When I had small children we decided to not fly - why? i think having a baby on an aeroplane can't be very comfortable for the child, pressure changes, germs etc. and also I would not like to inconvenience others because of MY choice to have a child. The hysterics that some people have shown is bizarre making the leap of logic , well if you don't want children what next? lock them up? The key difference to say supermarkets, restaurants etc. is that on an aeroplane everyone is stuck on it until you get to your destination - you can't just get up and leave!! It is a shame that everyone cannot show a little bit of consideration and try to not let their lifestyle choices impact negatively on others.
My point was the selfishness of the parents, who would subject their child to the rigours of a long haul flight. I didnt mention other passengers. Maybe you should re-read my post, as you have misread it.
As for the bonding, thats total rubbish, a baby, meeting some relatives for a couple of weeks, wont remember them once they get back home. Like I said erlier, its more to do with the paretns wanting to show-off their new baby.
It depends on the situation, if the child cries for 5 mins and then is quite, then there is no case to whine. If on the other hand, the babies cries for 30mins+ at a time, then I dont think it is whining, and they are total entitled to feel aggrieved.
It was really selfish on my parents. They had to endure a 12 hour flight with a 5 month old baby due to the fact my dad was posted to the other side of the world. They didn't really have much choice in the matter.
People who choose to have children should not be inconvenienced by moaning old gits like me who are not right fond of kids and moaning old gits like me should not have to put up with noise and disruption because people chose to reproduce.
It's like the smoking ban there could have been non smoking pubs and smoking pubs, everyone would have been catered for.. but oh no, it has to be all or nothing in this country.
There would be much more harmony if solutions could be reached that involve compromise and a positive outcome for everyone.
I'm not sure exactly what that means, indeed i'm sure interpretations vary wildly.
Childre *need* to be born if the human race is to continue, but it doesn't *need* to continue in order for the world to still exist. Nature doesn't have a preference one way or the other. Hmmm.
Hmmm end the human race so that the last couple of gennerations can enjoy child free flights, thats quite a plan you have there!
Seriously, weather you like it or not people will procreate. If you can't handle being around a whole section of the human race (children) thats your problem.
It was really selfish on my parents. They had to endure a 12 hour flight with a 5 month old baby due to the fact my dad was posted to the other side of the world. They didn't really have much choice in the matter.
I would agree there are occasions, where the parents have no choice but to take their child on a flight. However, wanting to show off your child to family isnt one of them.
If babies only travelled when there was no choice, there would be a lot less babies travelling, and thus less people upset by crying babies. As someone mentioned in this thread, they can get something for the baby to keep them asleep.
I have flown abit, not much, I have been lucky not to have encountered a baby crying for 30mins+. However I can imagine it not being a pleasant experience.
Actually Denise is right, whether you like it or not children have to be born and society as a whole should hold the responsibilty of caring for these children not just the parents, it's up to us all to create a livable enviroment for everyone and to make the early years for children easy so in return they can help us when we get old and can't manage ourselves.
They may be your responsibility. They aren't mine.
These anti kid threads always make me laugh. There seems to be a massive section of this forum that don't realise that babies and children are actually people.
No, they aren't. They start out out as screaming, mindless, stinking objects with no discernible redeeming features, gradually develop into noisy, disruptive, antisocial little vandals that do nothing but annoy, and then a lot of the time progress to being juvenile delinquent scumbags who need locking up. If you're very lucky, when, they reach about 20, about 50% of them become civilized human beings. The rest remain inarticulate slobs whose idea of a meaningful existence is droning on about The X-Factor. I'd say it's a lot of effort for very little gain, personally.
My point was the selfishness of the parents, who would subject their child to the rigours of a long haul flight. I didnt mention other passengers. Maybe you should re-read my post, as you have misread it.
As for the bonding, thats total rubbish, a baby, meeting some relatives for a couple of weeks, wont remember them once they get back home. Like I said erlier, its more to do with the paretns wanting to show-off their new baby.
My aren't you presumptuous telling others essentially how to live their lives. On my last visit home, my daughter began saying the names of her grandparents and her uncles. She recognizes them when she sees their photos now. These are meaningful connections she would not be able to make over a computer as you callously suggested. As for the rigors of a long haul flight: I'm afraid it's not half as traumatic as you're making it out to be. My daughter has never cried more than a few minutes at a time (as she does most days). Every single flight I've been on with her, people have complimented me on how well behaved she was. The most difficult bit is for me to keep her entertained and out of other people's hair for nine straight hours. It's exhausting, but worth every minute.
I would agree there are occasions, where the parents have no choice but to take their child on a flight. However, wanting to show off your child to family isnt one of them.
If babies only travelled when there was no choice, there would be a lot less babies travelling, and thus less people upset by crying babies. As someone mentioned in this thread, they can get something for the baby to keep them asleep.
Why can't the people who are easerly upset by babies only travel when theres no choice?
I personally wouldn't take a baby, or even a toddler on a long haul flight. I recently went on a train journey where a toddler screamed constantly, and although I would never say anything to the parents as they were clearly embarrassed and flustered, it did get on my nerves and I heard several other passengers loudly complaining about the racket.
It was bad enough for an hour or so on a train, I can't imagine how awful it would be on a long hail flight!
While I quite understand that sometimes people have to fly with a baby (such as the poster whose family was posted overseas), I don't really get why parents of young babies take them abroad on holiday - especially to places that require a long-haul flight. The child won't appreciate where it is, and flying is an uncomfortable enough experience for an adult, so for a baby, with tiny ear canals, it must be very uncomfortable indeed.
We didn't holiday abroad until my younger daughter was four, old enough to sit and play quietly, or sleep. And that was only a couple of hours to Spain. What's wrong with taking a holiday in this country until the child is a bit older?
My aren't you presumptuous telling others essentially how to live their lives. On my last visit home, my daughter began saying the names of her grandparents and her uncles. She recognizes them when she sees their photos now. These are meaningful connections she would not be able to make over a computer as you callously suggested. As for the rigors of a long haul flight: I'm afraid it's not half as traumatic as you're making it out to be. My daughter has never cried more than a few minutes at a time (as she does most days). Every single flight I've been on with her, people have complimented me on how well behaved she was. The most difficult bit is for me to keep her entertained and out of other people's hair for nine straight hours. It's exhausting, but worth every minute.
Your talking rubbish, or your daughter isnt a baby. This thread is about babies, and not young children. If you child could say their name, then I assume she wasnt a baby.
Oh your condescending tone, really helps in putting your point across
They may be your responsibility. They aren't mine.
No, they aren't. They start out out as screaming, mindless, stinking objects with no discernible redeeming features, gradually develop into noisy, disruptive, antisocial little vandals that do nothing but annoy, and then a lot of the time progress to being juvenile delinquent scumbags who need locking up. If you're very lucky, when, they reach about 20, about 50% of them become civilized human beings. The rest remain inarticulate slobs whose idea of a meaningful existence is droning on about The X-Factor. I'd say it's a lot of effort for very little gain, personally.
Yes they are.
I'm guessing you didn't enter this world as a 30something?
Let me guess though!!!....You were nothing like how terrible the kids of today are? :sleep:
While I quite understand that sometimes people have to fly with a baby (such as the poster whose family was posted overseas), I don't really get why parents of young babies take them abroad on holiday - especially to places that require a long-haul flight. The child won't appreciate where it is, and flying is an uncomfortable enough experience for an adult, so for a baby, with tiny ear canals, it must be very uncomfortable indeed.
We didn't holiday abroad until my younger daughter was four, old enough to sit and play quietly, or sleep. And that was only a couple of hours to Spain. What's wrong with taking a holiday in this country until the child is a bit older?
Just my thoughts anyway
Agree with this post. Its what responsible parents should do (mainly for their babies sake, rather than other passengers being put out).
Hmmm end the human race so that the last couple of gennerations can enjoy child free flights, thats quite a plan you have there!
Seriously, weather you like it or not people will procreate. If you can't handle being around a whole section of the human race (children) thats your problem.
Oh no, that was just being pedantic, neither an opinion nor a plan. Of course people will procreate, we just don't *need* to. See? Pedantic, I = Queen Of.
Flying is shit, i don't think there any way to make it enjoyable.
Babies are going to cry, it's what they do, it's not a great noise but that's life - no one is promised an easy ride. Plus, that's what ipods are for.
Your talking rubbish, or your daughter isnt a baby. This thread is about babies, and not young children. If you child could say their name, then I assume she wasnt a baby.
Oh your condescending tone, really helps in putting your point across
Excuse me? You said in your initial post that children shouldn't fly until the age of four. At what age to think children begin talking?
I have the one daughter and i love her to bits but for some reason i can't stand other people kids, i don't get it.
Me too, i have 3 children but really cant be doing with having other peoples foisted upon me, i was always well aware of the fact when my children were little that just because they were the centre of my world others didn't feel the same.
They may be your responsibility. They aren't mine.
No, they aren't. They start out out as screaming, mindless, stinking objects with no discernible redeeming features, gradually develop into noisy, disruptive, antisocial little vandals that do nothing but annoy, and then a lot of the time progress to being juvenile delinquent scumbags who need locking up. If you're very lucky, when, they reach about 20, about 50% of them become civilized human beings. The rest remain inarticulate slobs whose idea of a meaningful existence is droning on about The X-Factor. I'd say it's a lot of effort for very little gain, personally.
Ok so shall we just make sure that everyone who was once a "screaming, mindless, stinking object" stays away from you and never bothers to help you with anything? If everyone had your attitude the human race would cease to excist! It's funny how you can't actually give a proper response other than to act like a baby yourself.
Probably because said people, dont cause a nuisance to other travellers.
Yeah because adults on planes behave perfectly don't they? HA!
One of my good friends is senior cabin crew for Monach and she's told me some awfull things about what passangers get upto. Strangly enough I've never heard her complain about the bad behaviour of babies...
I guess when you've been threatened with physical violence for running out of diet coke a crying baby isn't such a big deal.
Hi ACU - agree with your post and also agree with family/adult only flights. I find it quite sad that some parents think it is their inalienable right to bring a baby onto a long haul flight as obviously it is about their rights and those of the other passengers do not come into it. When I had small children we decided to not fly - why? i think having a baby on an aeroplane can't be very comfortable for the child, pressure changes, germs etc. and also I would not like to inconvenience others because of MY choice to have a child. The hysterics that some people have shown is bizarre making the leap of logic , well if you don't want children what next? lock them up? The key difference to say supermarkets, restaurants etc. is that on an aeroplane everyone is stuck on it until you get to your destination - you can't just get up and leave!! It is a shame that everyone cannot show a little bit of consideration and try to not let their lifestyle choices impact negatively on others.
As you say, you cant get up and leave, which makes it worse. There isnt much that can be done except put up with the noise. Children who constantly kick the back of your chair also a major pain.
Comments
I'm not sure exactly what that means, indeed i'm sure interpretations vary wildly.
Childre *need* to be born if the human race is to continue, but it doesn't *need* to continue in order for the world to still exist. Nature doesn't have a preference one way or the other. Hmmm.
He once nearly missed his connecting flight as he helped a lady and her stuff off a plane because someone like the OP had moaned at her so much she was crying because she felt so bad that she had upset him by not being able to console her child during a part of the flight. People can be so quick to complain about children until they have there own and realise that life is not just all about THEM !!
I like the idea of seperate flights and as a parent i would quite happily pay MORE to be away from people like the OP .
Hi ACU - agree with your post and also agree with family/adult only flights. I find it quite sad that some parents think it is their inalienable right to bring a baby onto a long haul flight as obviously it is about their rights and those of the other passengers do not come into it. When I had small children we decided to not fly - why? i think having a baby on an aeroplane can't be very comfortable for the child, pressure changes, germs etc. and also I would not like to inconvenience others because of MY choice to have a child. The hysterics that some people have shown is bizarre making the leap of logic , well if you don't want children what next? lock them up? The key difference to say supermarkets, restaurants etc. is that on an aeroplane everyone is stuck on it until you get to your destination - you can't just get up and leave!! It is a shame that everyone cannot show a little bit of consideration and try to not let their lifestyle choices impact negatively on others.
It was really selfish on my parents. They had to endure a 12 hour flight with a 5 month old baby due to the fact my dad was posted to the other side of the world. They didn't really have much choice in the matter.
People who choose to have children should not be inconvenienced by moaning old gits like me who are not right fond of kids and moaning old gits like me should not have to put up with noise and disruption because people chose to reproduce.
It's like the smoking ban there could have been non smoking pubs and smoking pubs, everyone would have been catered for.. but oh no, it has to be all or nothing in this country.
There would be much more harmony if solutions could be reached that involve compromise and a positive outcome for everyone.
Hmmm end the human race so that the last couple of gennerations can enjoy child free flights, thats quite a plan you have there!
Seriously, weather you like it or not people will procreate. If you can't handle being around a whole section of the human race (children) thats your problem.
I would agree there are occasions, where the parents have no choice but to take their child on a flight. However, wanting to show off your child to family isnt one of them.
If babies only travelled when there was no choice, there would be a lot less babies travelling, and thus less people upset by crying babies. As someone mentioned in this thread, they can get something for the baby to keep them asleep.
I have flown abit, not much, I have been lucky not to have encountered a baby crying for 30mins+. However I can imagine it not being a pleasant experience.
No, they aren't. They start out out as screaming, mindless, stinking objects with no discernible redeeming features, gradually develop into noisy, disruptive, antisocial little vandals that do nothing but annoy, and then a lot of the time progress to being juvenile delinquent scumbags who need locking up. If you're very lucky, when, they reach about 20, about 50% of them become civilized human beings. The rest remain inarticulate slobs whose idea of a meaningful existence is droning on about The X-Factor. I'd say it's a lot of effort for very little gain, personally.
My aren't you presumptuous telling others essentially how to live their lives. On my last visit home, my daughter began saying the names of her grandparents and her uncles. She recognizes them when she sees their photos now. These are meaningful connections she would not be able to make over a computer as you callously suggested. As for the rigors of a long haul flight: I'm afraid it's not half as traumatic as you're making it out to be. My daughter has never cried more than a few minutes at a time (as she does most days). Every single flight I've been on with her, people have complimented me on how well behaved she was. The most difficult bit is for me to keep her entertained and out of other people's hair for nine straight hours. It's exhausting, but worth every minute.
Why can't the people who are easerly upset by babies only travel when theres no choice?
It was bad enough for an hour or so on a train, I can't imagine how awful it would be on a long hail flight!
We didn't holiday abroad until my younger daughter was four, old enough to sit and play quietly, or sleep. And that was only a couple of hours to Spain. What's wrong with taking a holiday in this country until the child is a bit older?
Just my thoughts anyway
Your talking rubbish, or your daughter isnt a baby. This thread is about babies, and not young children. If you child could say their name, then I assume she wasnt a baby.
Oh your condescending tone, really helps in putting your point across
Probably because said people, dont cause a nuisance to other travellers.
Yes they are.
I'm guessing you didn't enter this world as a 30something?
Let me guess though!!!....You were nothing like how terrible the kids of today are? :sleep:
Agree with this post. Its what responsible parents should do (mainly for their babies sake, rather than other passengers being put out).
Oh no, that was just being pedantic, neither an opinion nor a plan. Of course people will procreate, we just don't *need* to. See? Pedantic, I = Queen Of.
Flying is shit, i don't think there any way to make it enjoyable.
Babies are going to cry, it's what they do, it's not a great noise but that's life - no one is promised an easy ride. Plus, that's what ipods are for.
Excuse me? You said in your initial post that children shouldn't fly until the age of four. At what age to think children begin talking?
Me too, i have 3 children but really cant be doing with having other peoples foisted upon me, i was always well aware of the fact when my children were little that just because they were the centre of my world others didn't feel the same.
Ok so shall we just make sure that everyone who was once a "screaming, mindless, stinking object" stays away from you and never bothers to help you with anything? If everyone had your attitude the human race would cease to excist! It's funny how you can't actually give a proper response other than to act like a baby yourself.
The people doing the moaning were never babies, they where created in alien labs as adults on the planet Me-me...
Yeah because adults on planes behave perfectly don't they? HA!
One of my good friends is senior cabin crew for Monach and she's told me some awfull things about what passangers get upto. Strangly enough I've never heard her complain about the bad behaviour of babies...
I guess when you've been threatened with physical violence for running out of diet coke a crying baby isn't such a big deal.
As you say, you cant get up and leave, which makes it worse. There isnt much that can be done except put up with the noise. Children who constantly kick the back of your chair also a major pain.
your excused
I was giving you my opinion, about the age of a child. That didnt change the fact that this thread is about babies...keep up will ya.