I thought that bus fare increases were mainly caused by such things as rising fuel prices and other operating costs.
If pensioners didn't use buses during the off-peak hours how many services would simply be cut because they weren't economically viable?
I don't think I'd want a service which only ran 1 bus an hour.
That's unfortunately all we have here, and we live in a suburb quite close to town! We can use our passes at any time of the day though. And they should definitely not be axed.
Exactly - in London the freedom pass covers zone 1-9 and includes 24 hour travel on the buses, trams, DLR and tube with free travel on national rail after 9am. If you had to buy the equivalent ticket it would cost over £3,000 a year - equivalent to 60% of the state pension a year. Its an incredibly generous concession - and a lot of London pensioners have massive housing wealth (average house prices now over £400k) and good pensions so aren't what one might call all exactly poor.
Since last year all over 60s living in London get the pass - unlike outside London where age eligibilty is linked to the state pension age. So you can have a 60 year old city banker or high court judge getting free travel to work - whereas a 25 year old cleaner on £12,000 has to pay full fare.
Who am I to say what is fair?
Its simply buying votes. Pensioners vote and young people don't, hence polices that screw young people over. Why should only pensioners be able to get special bonds from hmrc?
Its simply buying votes. Pensioners vote and young people don't, hence polices that screw young people over. Why should only pensioners be able to get special bonds from hmrc?
Have you ever thought about the health affects of people who are still living at home in their 30s, can't afford a car, huge uni debt and can only get a low skilled job?
Oh so that's why you are whining is it? havent got everything you think YOU deserve
Have you ever thought about the health affects of people who are still living at home in their 30s, can't afford a car, huge uni debt and can only get a low skilled job?
This should not be an "old versus young" issue. Bus travel should be affordable for everyone.
And if people have a huge uni debt, isn't it the case that they don't have to pay it back while they're in a low-paid job? It may not be very pleasant, but why would it affect their health?
That's unfortunately all we have here, and we live in a suburb quite close to town! We can use our passes at any time of the day though. And they should definitely not be axed.
Why shouldn't they be axed? Why should the poorest people in society pay for this perk that they will probably never get?
This should not be an "old versus young" issue. Bus travel should be affordable for everyone.
And if people have a huge uni debt, isn't it the case that they don't have to pay it back while they're in a low-paid job? It may not be very pleasant, but why would it affect their health?
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
The scheme - particularly in London - is completely unsustainable due to demographic changes.
Its buying the votes of today's pensioners - paid for by young taxpayers who won't get the benefit or won't until they are so old it will be too late to be of much benefit. Cos it just isn't affordable long term.
Cos if you are under 45 - you are no way going to have the largesse granted to you that current pensioners get when you retire. Today's pensioners are retiring at 60 - today's young people will be retiring at 80.
Why shouldn't they be axed? Why should the poorest people in society pay for this perk that they will probably never get?
What is it you're after with this?
To give pensioners a kick in the nuts? Give them a bit of a hard time? There are many pensioners in areas all over the country who ARE part of the 'poorest people in society' demographic you're ranting about. London's transport facilities are not representative of the rest of the country.
Do you think removing the bus pass scheme will lower the fares for everyone? It definitely won't.
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
So taking away their bus pass would make no difference then as they wouldn't be on the bus and paying a fare? Meanwhile though, the bus company would still be looking to make the lost concession money back somehow? By putting up everyone's fares.
So taking away their bus pass would make no difference then as they wouldn't be on the bus and paying a fare? Meanwhile though, the bus company would still be looking to make the lost concession money back somehow? By putting up everyone's fares.
Surely the argument then is we should subsidise bus travel based on income/wealth and not on your age?
So taking away their bus pass would make no difference then as they wouldn't be on the bus and paying a fare? Meanwhile though, the bus company would still be looking to make the lost concession money back somehow? By putting up everyone's fares.
If bus passes were issued on need it would.
But they are just used as a cheap political bribe that is yet another policy disadvantaging the young who most will never reach retirement.
Hang on.........I've just got the application form to apply for my Freedom Pass in a few weeks time !
Give us a chance !
It's not clear how they work out the 'cost' because those tubes and buses would presumably be running anyway.......and of course there's no guarantee that old folk would make (and pay for) the same number of journeys if they didn't get a card
What a good point, and being such, will be totally ignored I suspect.
Have you ever thought about the health affects of people who are still living at home in their 30s, can't afford a car, huge uni debt and can only get a low skilled job?
Get a bike, you can get around on that and the fresh air will do you good too.
Surely the argument then is we should subsidise bus travel based on income/wealth and not on your age?
There could be something there to be looked at.
The example you gave of a 60 year old High Court Judge or Doctor trotting about free on London transport is quite valid in that respect. It's not quite right.
However I do tend to think more of the elderly grandparent, in more rural towns, who only makes a few journeys a week for shopping or visiting friends/family. The concession may only be saving them £10 a week, but for a lot of people it's necessary if not vital.
I don't believe scrapping all buss passes would lower fares. I thought part of the economics behind it was it should be income neutral to the transport companies i.e.they shouldn't be making or losing money on the scheme.
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
So I take it your friend does not work then? If she did then it would be up to her to look at the price of season tickets for her bus service.
IOW has some of the highest fares in the UK, but even here our 7 day pass costs £24.00 that's a cost of £4.80 per day if using it for 5 days and £3.42 per day if using it for 7 days, an £85 per month pass would cost less per day.
And you know that's what people who work and commute on a regular basis do to get their fares down.
I would suggest she looks up her bus companies fares on line and get the best deal
All these filthy rich pensioners, living it up on their pensions, flitting off to Spain for the winter,shopping in Waitrose, probably buying a new car every 3 years, aren't going to be ringing the council and applying for a bus pass.
The ones that do apply will be those very poor ones, and the nearly poor ones.
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
And how People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems, and how is all these things that fault of pensioners, and if your friends parents are not using the free bus pass then it is not costing anyone any money.
I thought some of the government taxes are used to pay the bus network companies to fund the bus passes? Am I wrong in thinking the bus companies get government money from every issued pass?
If this scheme was gone, won't prices go up if pensioners don't get passes anymore and bus companies would lose a chuck of revenue because they don't recieve government money anymore?
The truth is, the lack of oil causing prices of fuel to go up is the main cause.
Surely the argument then is we should subsidise bus travel based on income/wealth and not on your age?
How do you define need and how do you get an accurate idea of someone's wealth, anyone could simply transfer the money from their bank account to their children's account and say they have insufficient mobey. Is it also right to penalize those who have saved
I thought some of the government taxes are used to pay the bus network companies to fund the bus passes? Am I wrong in thinking the bus companies get government money from every issued pass?
If this scheme was gone, won't prices go up if pensioners don't get passes anymore and bus companies would lose a chuck of revenue because they don't recieve government money anymore?
The truth is, the lack of oil causing prices of fuel to go up is the main cause.
Many buses particularly in rural areas would become unsustainable and simply not run damaging the economy. Also do not forget that many charities and voluntary organisations are able to cooperate because of pensioner volunteers who may be less able to do so without the concessions
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
It depend what you mean by unable to get about. If they have a mobility problem they may well be able to get a disability bus pass
If they live in a suburban area they may well be within walking distance, a healthy person should be able to walk 2-3 miles without too much effort,
Comments
That's unfortunately all we have here, and we live in a suburb quite close to town! We can use our passes at any time of the day though. And they should definitely not be axed.
Its simply buying votes. Pensioners vote and young people don't, hence polices that screw young people over. Why should only pensioners be able to get special bonds from hmrc?
Oh so that's why you are whining is it? havent got everything you think YOU deserve
This should not be an "old versus young" issue. Bus travel should be affordable for everyone.
And if people have a huge uni debt, isn't it the case that they don't have to pay it back while they're in a low-paid job? It may not be very pleasant, but why would it affect their health?
Why shouldn't they be axed? Why should the poorest people in society pay for this perk that they will probably never get?
People stuck living at home in their 30s, can't afford a home, unable to get about and doing low paid work will probably get mental health problems.
The point is busses are getting increasingly unaffordable, partly due to these free passes.
My friend has to take two busses to get into town, at the cost of 14. This would be the first couple of hours of pay. Her parents both have bus passes but never use them as they have a car.
The scheme - particularly in London - is completely unsustainable due to demographic changes.
Its buying the votes of today's pensioners - paid for by young taxpayers who won't get the benefit or won't until they are so old it will be too late to be of much benefit. Cos it just isn't affordable long term.
Cos if you are under 45 - you are no way going to have the largesse granted to you that current pensioners get when you retire. Today's pensioners are retiring at 60 - today's young people will be retiring at 80.
What is it you're after with this?
To give pensioners a kick in the nuts? Give them a bit of a hard time? There are many pensioners in areas all over the country who ARE part of the 'poorest people in society' demographic you're ranting about. London's transport facilities are not representative of the rest of the country.
Do you think removing the bus pass scheme will lower the fares for everyone? It definitely won't.
So taking away their bus pass would make no difference then as they wouldn't be on the bus and paying a fare? Meanwhile though, the bus company would still be looking to make the lost concession money back somehow? By putting up everyone's fares.
Surely the argument then is we should subsidise bus travel based on income/wealth and not on your age?
If bus passes were issued on need it would.
But they are just used as a cheap political bribe that is yet another policy disadvantaging the young who most will never reach retirement.
Because they're not as fit that's why.
Get a bike, you can get around on that and the fresh air will do you good too.
There could be something there to be looked at.
The example you gave of a 60 year old High Court Judge or Doctor trotting about free on London transport is quite valid in that respect. It's not quite right.
However I do tend to think more of the elderly grandparent, in more rural towns, who only makes a few journeys a week for shopping or visiting friends/family. The concession may only be saving them £10 a week, but for a lot of people it's necessary if not vital.
I don't believe scrapping all buss passes would lower fares. I thought part of the economics behind it was it should be income neutral to the transport companies i.e.they shouldn't be making or losing money on the scheme.
Didn't do Labour much good did it?
Just another boobie trap left behind.
So I take it your friend does not work then? If she did then it would be up to her to look at the price of season tickets for her bus service.
IOW has some of the highest fares in the UK, but even here our 7 day pass costs £24.00 that's a cost of £4.80 per day if using it for 5 days and £3.42 per day if using it for 7 days, an £85 per month pass would cost less per day.
And you know that's what people who work and commute on a regular basis do to get their fares down.
I would suggest she looks up her bus companies fares on line and get the best deal
The ones that do apply will be those very poor ones, and the nearly poor ones.
If this scheme was gone, won't prices go up if pensioners don't get passes anymore and bus companies would lose a chuck of revenue because they don't recieve government money anymore?
The truth is, the lack of oil causing prices of fuel to go up is the main cause.
How do you define need and how do you get an accurate idea of someone's wealth, anyone could simply transfer the money from their bank account to their children's account and say they have insufficient mobey. Is it also right to penalize those who have saved
Many buses particularly in rural areas would become unsustainable and simply not run damaging the economy. Also do not forget that many charities and voluntary organisations are able to cooperate because of pensioner volunteers who may be less able to do so without the concessions
It depend what you mean by unable to get about. If they have a mobility problem they may well be able to get a disability bus pass
If they live in a suburban area they may well be within walking distance, a healthy person should be able to walk 2-3 miles without too much effort,