To be fair here it's not just Welsh place names that can be miss-pronounced.
I spent a decade as a presenter on BBC Radio Wales and the place is a minefield when it comes to area's such as the borders and north east. Anglo Welsh often means there are two ways of pronouncing simple places such as Rhyl.
I worked for many years in international tv news where the Americanism I-Raq wound me up.
Try living in Jersey - with our corruption of French based on over 800 years of not actually BEING French anymore, we have may variants in pronunciation both locally within Jersey, and within the Channel Islands as a whole. For instance, the surname 'Langlois' is pronounced 'Long-wah' in Jersey, but 'Long-lay' in Guernsey (go figure!) and there are many other examples.
But - and I think this is the point many have been trying to make - if you're looking for a little girl who's been abducted you don't give a flying f*** if place names are pronounced incorrectly because it really does't matter. Now is NOT the time to have a mis-placed sense of emphasis on local pronunciations. It's an argument for another day. If this was happening in Jersey, and if it was involving a place/road name that was incomprehensible to anyone who wasn't aware of Jersey French pronunciation, would we care? No. The emphasis should be on the missing girl and that's that - as I believe it has been locally in Wales right from the start.
I was on the Cambrian Line train this summer - one of the many Brummie daytrippers to the coast asked me in the broadest Brum accent I've ever heard, "Can yow till moi if this is the roight carriage fur Mack-clunkit?" I giggled...
The vagaries of Welsh pronunciation are such that all bets are off when it comes to Welsh place names.
Welsh pronunciation doesn't have 'vagaries' as the way it is written reflects perfectly the rules of Welsh pronuciation.... it's English that has vagaries, with its wide gap between how words and names are written and spoken.
There's a place in Lancashire written Barnoldswick but actually pronounced Barlick !
Then there's Penistone in south Yorkshire, another challenge for newsreaders.
You usually find the local presenters get it right and the national ones get it wrong.
As I posted earlier this is a very serious news story. But as with any such, professional news presenters might be expected to make an effort to pronounce place names properly - it's not so difficult, and not doing so is just sloppiness. Interesting to note that when there are stories involving French place names, for example, the London-based newsreaders generally go to great lengths to exhibit their French pronunciations....listen out next time there's a story about somewhere in France.
As I posted earlier this is a very serious news story. But as with any such, professional news presenters might be expected to make an effort to pronounce place names properly - it's not so difficult, and not doing so is just sloppiness. Interesting to note that when there are stories involving French place names, for example, the London-based newsreaders generally go to great lengths to exhibit their French pronunciations....listen out next time there's a story about somewhere in France.
And as was posted earlier, French place names are generally a lot easier to pronounce than Welsh ones.
And as was posted earlier, French place names are generally a lot easier to pronounce than Welsh ones.
They are, if you speak fluent French. It has been pointed out that Welsh actually has quite logical pronunciation following rules so someone who can speak Welsh should be able to say any Welsh placename with none of idiosyncrasies of English placenames.
One in Scotland, that locals always take great pleasure in catching out strangers with, is Avoch.
They are, if you speak fluent French. It has been pointed out that Welsh actually has quite logical pronunciation following rules so someone who can speak Welsh should be able to say any Welsh placename with none of idiosyncrasies of English placenames.
Well there won't be many people who can speak Welsh outside Wales, unless they are originally Welsh of course.
Broadcasters getting pronunciation wrong is like a typo or punctuation error in a newspaper.
There's no excuse for laziness - and if you're there, broadcasting to the nation - ask a local, and practice it over and over til you get it right.
This thread reminds me of a youtube clip i saw a year ago or so, when the Eyjafjallajökull volcano in Iceland was erupting.
It was a compilation of news broadcasters trying to pronounce it, and ended with one who simply said "The Icelandic Volcano..."
Years ago when Nestle were taking over Rowntree they news, including the BBC, pronounced the Swiss company as Nes-elles" all the time. Then the had a history of the company and sais "The Nes-elles company, founded by Andre Nest-lay..."
Didn't the Milky Bar TV commercial end with the line "Nes-elles Milky Bar" for many many years ?
I agree, the company itself seems to have changed the pronunciation (as far as the Uk is concerned) a few years ago.
Comments
Ulgham..... I wonder if anyone here knows how to pronounce that, and then there is another village called Alnmouth that is near to Alnwick........
then there's Eglingham, Edlingham, and Edlington!
Try living in Jersey - with our corruption of French based on over 800 years of not actually BEING French anymore, we have may variants in pronunciation both locally within Jersey, and within the Channel Islands as a whole. For instance, the surname 'Langlois' is pronounced 'Long-wah' in Jersey, but 'Long-lay' in Guernsey (go figure!) and there are many other examples.
But - and I think this is the point many have been trying to make - if you're looking for a little girl who's been abducted you don't give a flying f*** if place names are pronounced incorrectly because it really does't matter. Now is NOT the time to have a mis-placed sense of emphasis on local pronunciations. It's an argument for another day. If this was happening in Jersey, and if it was involving a place/road name that was incomprehensible to anyone who wasn't aware of Jersey French pronunciation, would we care? No. The emphasis should be on the missing girl and that's that - as I believe it has been locally in Wales right from the start.
Have just checked the book on disrespectful under sub-section 'sensitive' and Machynlleth isn't listed.
Anyway I'm sure most people are more concerned about the little girl than correct pronunciation of the village name.
Welsh pronunciation doesn't have 'vagaries' as the way it is written reflects perfectly the rules of Welsh pronuciation.... it's English that has vagaries, with its wide gap between how words and names are written and spoken.
as Mid-Wales !!!
Then there's Penistone in south Yorkshire, another challenge for newsreaders.
You usually find the local presenters get it right and the national ones get it wrong.
Dodworth, Adwick, Danum, Oughtibridge, Penistone, Wadworth, Sothall,
You cannot be expected to know the pronunciation of every place in the world?
And as was posted earlier, French place names are generally a lot easier to pronounce than Welsh ones.
Oughtibridge - ooot-ee-bridge
Penistone - pen-i-stun
The others I forget.
And you are from South yorkshire and you don't know majority of them so why would Sky or BBC?
They are, if you speak fluent French. It has been pointed out that Welsh actually has quite logical pronunciation following rules so someone who can speak Welsh should be able to say any Welsh placename with none of idiosyncrasies of English placenames.
One in Scotland, that locals always take great pleasure in catching out strangers with, is Avoch.
Well there won't be many people who can speak Welsh outside Wales, unless they are originally Welsh of course.
Now not being a local, I would have said Tayn for all of them.
Oh and of course, Paignton (Paint on)
I remember Bill Bryson once saying the most fun he ever had was asking Americans to pronounce "Slough"
There's no excuse for laziness - and if you're there, broadcasting to the nation - ask a local, and practice it over and over til you get it right.
It was a compilation of news broadcasters trying to pronounce it, and ended with one who simply said "The Icelandic Volcano..."
Didn't the Milky Bar TV commercial end with the line "Nes-elles Milky Bar" for many many years ?
I agree, the company itself seems to have changed the pronunciation (as far as the Uk is concerned) a few years ago.