Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes.
Can Suzanne and Hayley do a vote winning number if they get it - yes. Beth has a smaller dancing range, but can do the right one if she gets it too.
Is there going to be any progression with Ray's tricks - does he have more moves stored, or will he keep on doing the same signature moves - we don't know. Suzanne and Hayley are adding new moves still. What else can they do? Whose act will still look interesting by the end?
Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no.
Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines.
Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Beth, Suzanne and Hayley all already have up and down stories, and they are the chasers, so anyone of them closing the gap will look good. The size of the gap makes them look better if they close it.
Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do.
Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to and that will impress. Most show dances have been pretty terrible, and blur the focus on the celeb - which may increase his advantage there. If its flying, the girls can do as well, or better.
By the final, all the finalists may well have equal 40/40 dances to reuse. The differences in quality over the series are reduced to one or two more equal routines. Do the public vote on Ray's show record being stronger, or do they vote for who has the most appealing dance, on the night?
Do people vote for Emmerdale/Corrie. the one they voted for last year, or the male, the master or the underdog, or the most emotional or exciting routine, with or against the judges, for who they like most, or for the best skater?
Oh I do hope so. With Bonnie and Zaraah both gone, Ray's the only one I'm going to look forward to see skate. He's so dynamic and exciting. The others are way behind.
Apart from their week one performance, I'm not really feeling Suzanne & Matt this time round. If that's Ray's closest competition then he should win by a landslide.
I agree. With Bonnie gone (not so much Zaraah for me as I didn't really take to her for some reason) he will be the only reason I tune in too, apart from to see the pro routines.
I disagree with that. The pros are held back by what the celebrities can do. The professional routines on the tour show their strengths more and even Ray couldn't compare to some of them, as much as I like him.
Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines.
Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good.
Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do.
Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to
He should win as the best skater and performer.but who knows how the public will vote!
I would agree with many of your variables with the exception of the above.
Firstly I believe Ray is just as good an actor as any of the female celebs having seen him both in a variety of roles in musical theatre and as a straight actor in the tour of the excellent production of Rise and Fall of Little Voice.
Secondly although dance trained neither Suzanne nor Hayley reached the competitive levels of Ray who was UK and European Latin and Ballroom champion and I believe rated second in the world. He was also UK jazz dance and rock and roll champion I think.
He can carry on getting better and better with more moves he may be practicing so could still have a journey.
Thirdly I think his partnership and relationship with Maria is wonderful and just as strong as the others.
Whether flying is back or not we don't know but Ray was excellent at that too and was just as graceful as any of the women IMO. If they have to choreograph their own routines in the final he is likely to have the choreographic background to produce something spectacular.
All this is subjective of course and this is just my opinion.
I didnt see Ray first time round so he is new to me. I wasn't keen on him the first couple of weeks but he has definitely grown on me. No question he is the best, I also think he is the type of skater you can enjoy watching without needing to 'like' him.
The only problem I have is his partner who dosnt seem to 'fit' him too well. I would much prefer to see him with Keirens partner - she is tiny and fearless. The routines they could create together would be magical.
That certainly applies to me. Although he's toned things down a bit over the years, Ray Quinn off the ice has a tendency to make me want to punch walls. However, Ray Quinn on the ice is not far short of magical. I love watching him skate far more than any other celeb that has ever taken part. He's not only better than the rest for me, he's got that extra something as well. He shouldn't be allowed to leave the rink .
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes.
I disagree with that.
If you gave the same routine to Ray and any other contestant, he would out-skate and out-perform them. He's just better in every respect. Sometimes you just have to say too good.
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes.
Can Suzanne and Hayley do a vote winning number if they get it - yes. Beth has a smaller dancing range, but can do the right one if she gets it too.
Is there going to be any progression with Ray's tricks - does he have more moves stored, or will he keep on doing the same signature moves - we don't know. Suzanne and Hayley are adding new moves still. What else can they do? Whose act will still look interesting by the end?
Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no.
Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines.
Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Beth, Suzanne and Hayley all already have up and down stories, and they are the chasers, so anyone of them closing the gap will look good. The size of the gap makes them look better if they close it.
Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do.
Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to and that will impress. Most show dances have been pretty terrible, and blur the focus on the celeb - which may increase his advantage there. If its flying, the girls can do as well, or better.
By the final, all the finalists may well have equal 40/40 dances to reuse. The differences in quality over the series are reduced to one or two more equal routines. Do the public vote on Ray's show record being stronger, or do they vote for who has the most appealing dance, on the night?
Do people vote for Emmerdale/Corrie. the one they voted for last year, or the male, the master or the underdog, or the most emotional or exciting routine, with or against the judges, for who they like most, or for the best skater?
For so many reasons this doesn't need to be a one horse race, but the judges seem DETERMINED that it will be. They do this every year and it's why I stopped watching. Last night they took Beth out as contender, which based on skating skills and popularity she could be. I had a look through last year and it was appalling! So glad I didn't watch it in full.
For so many reasons this doesn't need to be a one horse race, but the judges seem DETERMINED that it will be. They do this every year and it's why I stopped watching. Last night they took Beth out as contender, which based on skating skills and popularity she could be. I had a look through last year and it was appalling! So glad I didn't watch it in full.
The judges aren't making it a one horse race. Ray's brilliance is doing that. Suzanne is the next best there, although she isn't back to her best yet, but Ray completely destroyed her in their duel.
Off the ice I've always found Ray to be a bit too much though I can't say I dislike him. However, put him on the ice and I suddenly can't take my eyes off him. Nothings Gonna Stop Us Now is my all-time fave doi routine and I've watched it many times on YouTube. What I love about Ray though is he doesn't need all the fancy, big lifts whether he can do them or not - it's all about the timing, the intricate movements with Maria. In this sense it makes them close in style to Torvill and Dean who were never well known for spectacular lifts themselves, just the pure skating.
The judges aren't making it a one horse race. Ray's brilliance is doing that. Suzanne is the next best there, although she isn't back to her best yet, but Ray completely destroyed her in their duel.
Well that's a good example of something they shouldn't have done.
Well that's a good example of something they shouldn't have done.
I doubt that the judges had any say in the format of the duels. The inclusion of the duels and the way they were done would have been decided on by the producers. Personally, I think the duel is a stupid idea and always has been and the show was better without it
I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later?
I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later?
I think that's the one with the perfect 30 as I've been looking back too. They (whoever they are) have done it to Suzanne's 'Music' routine as well (the irony!) 😡
And I agree with mnc about the lifts, he doesn't need them because his skating and footwork are so exceptional. I've always thought he didn't do them to showcase this.
I think that's the one with the perfect 30 as I've been looking back too. They (whoever they are) have done it to Suzanne's 'Music' routine as well (the irony!) 😡
And I agree with mnc about the lifts, he doesn't need them because his skating and footwork are so exceptional. I've always thought he didn't do them to showcase this.
I hadn't even noticed he hadn't done the big lifts till I read the comments so I definitely havnt missed them.
If you gave the same routine to Ray and any other contestant, he would out-skate and out-perform them. He's just better in every respect. Sometimes you just have to say Obviously iftoo good.
Thats not true whichever way you interpret it. Team Ray can't do some of Beth, Bonnie or Suzanne's lifts, and he may not be able to do every move Kyran can do, or every lift Kyran or Sam can put up. The top females can dance most routines that are likely to turn up as well - Ray's advantage only shows if the routine requires him to do things he can do, and they can't. His team couldn't do all of team Suzanne's half of their duel routine, any more than she could do his jumps.
The point about routines is that some are simply better vote winners, some allow people to show what they are good at, and some nullify advantages someone might have. If they write Ray a routine that allows him to do everything he can do better, and he gets a story and gives the audience an emotional connection, he will be unbeatable. If someone else gets a really great dance routine without Ray's tricks, it may work even better than anything he gets. A really good dance routine with bigger wow factor in the lifts, may also trump skating tricks - think Hayley's best routines with Suzanne's best tricks. By the final. you would hope that everyone there will have a routine worth 40 - so its going to be a case of whether the voters think Ray is actually worth 50 out of 40, or prefer the content of another 40/40 routine.
Its perfectly possible Ray will get the best routine of the series, or the voters will vote on who skates fastest, jumps highest, and moves their feet fastest. They may vote on the series as a whole. Or, they may find some other routine, or the final boleros, make them laugh, cry, or say wow, louder.
I have been looking at some of Rays videos on You Tube from when he was on previously. He looks SO young! Obviously just a 'natural. One or two people have mentioned him not doing big lifts - I havnt seen him do any this year (not sure if there is a reason for that) - but he did do at least a couple last time. I havnt watched them all but weeks 4 and 6 both had quite impressive lifts in them (weeks 6 I can only find without music).
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later?
He can do some decent lifts, or he could. Thats pretty remarkable since he's not that big. What he can't do is some lifts that require more strength that a Kyran or Sam can hold up, or those that require more experience or skill or power to be safe. Bonnie and Suzanne , are the right height, and have the right balance and skills to do their end of the lifts safely, and have very strong tall professionals to hold them up safely. If Ray was Sam's size, he wouldn't be able to do much of what he does either, so its pretty much swings and roundabouts.
He can do some decent lifts, or he could. Thats pretty remarkable since he's not that big. What he can't do is some lifts that require more strength that a Kyran or Sam can hold up, or those that require more experience or skill or power to be safe. Bonnie and Suzanne , are the right height, and have the right balance and skills to do their end of the lifts safely, and have very strong tall professionals to hold them up safely. If Ray was Sam's size, he wouldn't be able to do much of what he does either, so its pretty much swings and roundabouts.
We don't know that he can't do the bigger lifts that require strength. His physique now is totally different to five years ago! I would suggest that the simple fact is he doesn't need big lifts to try to impress as in terms of skill fluidity musicality interpretation and technicality combined he is simply in a league of his own!
Frankly I personally prefer watching someone dance on ice fluently without lifts which often make a routine disjointed! Some have to put them in to impress as either they lack musicality or dance ability or basic skating skills.
What I love about Ray though is he doesn't need all the fancy, big lifts whether he can do them or not - it's all about the timing, the intricate movements with Maria. In this sense it makes them close in style to Torvill and Dean who were never well known for spectacular lifts themselves, just the pure skating.
Agree 100%....it's what I love about watching Ray and Maria - their style is so similar to Torville and Dean - beautiful fluid skating - they dont need all the tricks and lifts which IMHO dont add anything to real "dancing on ice"....
If I've done that right it's the link to Rays previous week 6 skate, no sound sorry. At the beginning they are practising the lift and discussing it. At around 3.15 is the lift - think thats where it is, I watched it a couple of times and was so enjoying the routine I kept forgetting to note the time!
As amytigger says his physique is different now so I see no reason why he couldn't do lifts if he chose. As it's Kyran and Sams 'big thing' being able to do lifts and neither are as nimble as Ray maybe T&D are choreographing it that way to keep it a more level playing field for a few weeks. .
I do sadly think that it's a competition for second place. When it comes to shows like this, I don't like it when one of the competitors is so much better than the rest. I think it makes the show boring. When there's two, three or more competitors who could win and it's difficult to call between them, I think it makes for a more exciting, entertaining show.
I agree..Ray is the best by a mile..Would I pick a phone up to vote for him? No I find him smug & smarmy! That however has nothing to do with his skating ability though!:p
I think he'd won before he even put a blade on ice.
Unless he has some kind of spectacular disaster in the final, he will win and to be honest, if he doesn't, it will be an absolute travesty. He is by far the best skater DOI has ever produced whether you like him or not. He is in a completely different class to the others.
If I've done that right it's the link to Rays previous week 6 skate, no sound sorry. At the beginning they are practising the lift and discussing it. At around 3.15 is the lift - think thats where it is, I watched it a couple of times and was so enjoying the routine I kept forgetting to note the time!
As amytigger says his physique is different now so I see no reason why he couldn't do lifts if he chose. As it's Kyran and Sams 'big thing' being able to do lifts and neither are as nimble as Ray maybe T&D are choreographing it that way to keep it a more level playing field for a few weeks. .
No, I can't lip read - sorry! But thanks so much for posting this. It was fabulous to watch. As you say, Ray can do lifts if he wants.....but he has so many other skills to offer, they don't have to do lifts every week
The choreography he is given by T&D is heads and shoulders above what they give to the others, he is a great skater but so is Suzanne, Keiran, Beth & to a lesser extent Hayley but IMO the choreography Ray is given pushes him to the top of the leader board every week
I actually felt tonight's routine sold him short in a way. Yes it was exciting watching him bombing around and leaping, but I wanted more direct interaction between him and Maria.
I think he'd won before he even put a blade on ice.
Unless he has some kind of spectacular disaster in the final, he will win and to be honest, if he doesn't, it will be an absolute travesty. He is by far the best skater DOI has ever produced whether you like him or not. He is in a completely different class to the others.
Comments
Is it largely in the hands of who gets what routine, when, and who gets asked to do what - yes.
Can Suzanne and Hayley do a vote winning number if they get it - yes. Beth has a smaller dancing range, but can do the right one if she gets it too.
Is there going to be any progression with Ray's tricks - does he have more moves stored, or will he keep on doing the same signature moves - we don't know. Suzanne and Hayley are adding new moves still. What else can they do? Whose act will still look interesting by the end?
Can he act as well as Hayley or Suzanne - no.
Can they dance as well as he can - yes with most routines.
Has he a show story - no. He's got no journey. He starts and ends as very, very, good. Beth, Suzanne and Hayley all already have up and down stories, and they are the chasers, so anyone of them closing the gap will look good. The size of the gap makes them look better if they close it.
Does he have a strong partnership, or a partner with a fanbase - not to the extent that Suzanne and Hayley do.
Is flying back for the final, or the silly show dance? He can impress in a show dance because he can just do as many spectacular leaps as he wants to and that will impress. Most show dances have been pretty terrible, and blur the focus on the celeb - which may increase his advantage there. If its flying, the girls can do as well, or better.
By the final, all the finalists may well have equal 40/40 dances to reuse. The differences in quality over the series are reduced to one or two more equal routines. Do the public vote on Ray's show record being stronger, or do they vote for who has the most appealing dance, on the night?
Do people vote for Emmerdale/Corrie. the one they voted for last year, or the male, the master or the underdog, or the most emotional or exciting routine, with or against the judges, for who they like most, or for the best skater?
I agree. With Bonnie gone (not so much Zaraah for me as I didn't really take to her for some reason) he will be the only reason I tune in too, apart from to see the pro routines.
I disagree with that. The pros are held back by what the celebrities can do. The professional routines on the tour show their strengths more and even Ray couldn't compare to some of them, as much as I like him.
He should win as the best skater and performer.but who knows how the public will vote!
I would agree with many of your variables with the exception of the above.
Firstly I believe Ray is just as good an actor as any of the female celebs having seen him both in a variety of roles in musical theatre and as a straight actor in the tour of the excellent production of Rise and Fall of Little Voice.
Secondly although dance trained neither Suzanne nor Hayley reached the competitive levels of Ray who was UK and European Latin and Ballroom champion and I believe rated second in the world. He was also UK jazz dance and rock and roll champion I think.
He can carry on getting better and better with more moves he may be practicing so could still have a journey.
Thirdly I think his partnership and relationship with Maria is wonderful and just as strong as the others.
Whether flying is back or not we don't know but Ray was excellent at that too and was just as graceful as any of the women IMO. If they have to choreograph their own routines in the final he is likely to have the choreographic background to produce something spectacular.
All this is subjective of course and this is just my opinion.
That certainly applies to me. Although he's toned things down a bit over the years, Ray Quinn off the ice has a tendency to make me want to punch walls. However, Ray Quinn on the ice is not far short of magical. I love watching him skate far more than any other celeb that has ever taken part. He's not only better than the rest for me, he's got that extra something as well. He shouldn't be allowed to leave the rink
I disagree with that.
If you gave the same routine to Ray and any other contestant, he would out-skate and out-perform them. He's just better in every respect. Sometimes you just have to say too good.
For so many reasons this doesn't need to be a one horse race, but the judges seem DETERMINED that it will be. They do this every year and it's why I stopped watching. Last night they took Beth out as contender, which based on skating skills and popularity she could be. I had a look through last year and it was appalling! So glad I didn't watch it in full.
The judges aren't making it a one horse race. Ray's brilliance is doing that. Suzanne is the next best there, although she isn't back to her best yet, but Ray completely destroyed her in their duel.
Well that's a good example of something they shouldn't have done.
I doubt that the judges had any say in the format of the duels. The inclusion of the duels and the way they were done would have been decided on by the producers. Personally, I think the duel is a stupid idea and always has been and the show was better without it
Maybe its like the myth that Bonny couldnt actually skate only do lifts - as proved on Saturday she could it was just down to the choreography! Perhaps Ray is saving them for later?
I think that's the one with the perfect 30 as I've been looking back too. They (whoever they are) have done it to Suzanne's 'Music' routine as well (the irony!) 😡
And I agree with mnc about the lifts, he doesn't need them because his skating and footwork are so exceptional. I've always thought he didn't do them to showcase this.
I hadn't even noticed he hadn't done the big lifts till I read the comments so I definitely havnt missed them.
Thats not true whichever way you interpret it. Team Ray can't do some of Beth, Bonnie or Suzanne's lifts, and he may not be able to do every move Kyran can do, or every lift Kyran or Sam can put up. The top females can dance most routines that are likely to turn up as well - Ray's advantage only shows if the routine requires him to do things he can do, and they can't. His team couldn't do all of team Suzanne's half of their duel routine, any more than she could do his jumps.
The point about routines is that some are simply better vote winners, some allow people to show what they are good at, and some nullify advantages someone might have. If they write Ray a routine that allows him to do everything he can do better, and he gets a story and gives the audience an emotional connection, he will be unbeatable. If someone else gets a really great dance routine without Ray's tricks, it may work even better than anything he gets. A really good dance routine with bigger wow factor in the lifts, may also trump skating tricks - think Hayley's best routines with Suzanne's best tricks. By the final. you would hope that everyone there will have a routine worth 40 - so its going to be a case of whether the voters think Ray is actually worth 50 out of 40, or prefer the content of another 40/40 routine.
Its perfectly possible Ray will get the best routine of the series, or the voters will vote on who skates fastest, jumps highest, and moves their feet fastest. They may vote on the series as a whole. Or, they may find some other routine, or the final boleros, make them laugh, cry, or say wow, louder.
He can do some decent lifts, or he could. Thats pretty remarkable since he's not that big. What he can't do is some lifts that require more strength that a Kyran or Sam can hold up, or those that require more experience or skill or power to be safe. Bonnie and Suzanne , are the right height, and have the right balance and skills to do their end of the lifts safely, and have very strong tall professionals to hold them up safely. If Ray was Sam's size, he wouldn't be able to do much of what he does either, so its pretty much swings and roundabouts.
We don't know that he can't do the bigger lifts that require strength. His physique now is totally different to five years ago! I would suggest that the simple fact is he doesn't need big lifts to try to impress as in terms of skill fluidity musicality interpretation and technicality combined he is simply in a league of his own!
Frankly I personally prefer watching someone dance on ice fluently without lifts which often make a routine disjointed! Some have to put them in to impress as either they lack musicality or dance ability or basic skating skills.
Agree 100%....it's what I love about watching Ray and Maria - their style is so similar to Torville and Dean - beautiful fluid skating - they dont need all the tricks and lifts which IMHO dont add anything to real "dancing on ice"....
If I've done that right it's the link to Rays previous week 6 skate, no sound sorry. At the beginning they are practising the lift and discussing it. At around 3.15 is the lift - think thats where it is, I watched it a couple of times and was so enjoying the routine I kept forgetting to note the time!
As amytigger says his physique is different now so I see no reason why he couldn't do lifts if he chose. As it's Kyran and Sams 'big thing' being able to do lifts and neither are as nimble as Ray maybe T&D are choreographing it that way to keep it a more level playing field for a few weeks. .
I agree..Ray is the best by a mile..Would I pick a phone up to vote for him? No I find him smug & smarmy! That however has nothing to do with his skating ability though!:p
No, I can't lip read - sorry! But thanks so much for posting this. It was fabulous to watch. As you say, Ray can do lifts if he wants.....but he has so many other skills to offer, they don't have to do lifts every week
The choreography he is given by T&D is heads and shoulders above what they give to the others, he is a great skater but so is Suzanne, Keiran, Beth & to a lesser extent Hayley but IMO the choreography Ray is given pushes him to the top of the leader board every week
I totally agree.