Oh and another thing, I have a 12 year old daughter and when she was in year 6 at school the whole class had to do a topic on John Lennon, the class room looked brilliant with The Beatles everywhere dos anyone think that in 45 years time schools will teach about Lady Gaga? I don't think so some how.
The Beatles and Lennon wouldn't be half as much remembered if it wasn't for the big media events surrounding their careers: Lennon's 'Bigger than Jesus' remark; unprecedented mass hysteria by girls; the Beatles going Yogic and psychedelic; Lennon's sit-in-a-bed protests, etc. This was all just media hype.
and changing the face of pop music forever and influencing countless other musicians sort of helped the hype along as well as bringing out albums with hit after hit after hit on them, unlike any other band at the time. :rolleyes:
I think you must be too young to remember music before the Beatles;)
They wrote some good songs, but I prefer to listen to them sung by other people. Was never a great Beatles fan but I appreciate their place in music history.
Don't get the legend/adulation thing at all. Leonard Cohen and Bowie deserve it far more.
Music is personal. All views are valid.
I don't really get that you can appreciate Leonard Cohen and Bowie, but not appreciate the writing talent and innovation of the Beatles. I love Leonard Cohen, but I can't say he deserves legend status 'far more' than the Beatles.
The Beatles opened the floodgates of creativity in pop music in the UK . It was all rock and Roll and ballads before that. Around the same time we had the likes of Stevie Wonder and the Supremes which also brought a whole new sound to people in the UK. Great times for pop music,
Lennon and McCartney together were/are untouchable.
Yes, its silly how some folk try to separate them, a lot of the songs were written together, some are unmistakably Lennon or McCartney but the extraordinary creativity they, along with GM had can't be placed solely on John's or Paul's shoulders. It was a dynamic. The later albums were truly groundbreaking, without them many of todays writers wouldn't have a career-Oasis, Beck etc
Post Beatles Lennon's stuff blows away anything by Wings but I forgive McCartney a lot cos he was amazing in the Beatles. They have made my life immeasurably better.
All the stuff I've read about Lennon suggests he was a difficult man with a lot of anger, i wouldn't have liked to have known him in person but as an artist and innovator I have huge respect for him.
The Stones simply stole black american music and made it their own, they managed one style brilliantly but I don't find the same depth or progression there, lyrically or musically.
He sure p1ssed off Mark Chapman who shot him in the back at least 5 times because he didn;t like Imagine (no posesions, whilst
Mark was a security guard and John had millions and country estates and 3 apartments in the Dakota buildings
A lot of you posting on this thread seriously need to do some research before posting
actually durin a tv program in an interview with Chapman he stated he shot John because he believed he would get john`s fame by doing so
also The beatles had a major influence within the likes of Russia and made a huge contribution to helping bring about the changes that ultimately led to the fall of the wall !
It's easy to forget that it's almost 50 years ago that The Beatles first made an impression on the music world. The passage of time means that that sort of music isn't as 'accessible' to younger people today.
For people who grew up in the 80s, the sound of the 60s was still very familiar, but when you think back to that period, how did you feel about music from the 30s and 40s? That's sort of how people growing up now must feel about the Beatles.
Some people respect it, some enjoy it in small doses and others are dismissive of it.
I can appreciate music from all era's, though maybe not so much when I was a teenager.But it is a bit ignorant to dismiss something as having no relevance because they don't personally like it. There are only a few artists in each century that have a profound influence on music and the Beatles have to be up there as one of the most influential artists of the 20th century.
I can never understand the logic of that. I don't mean just The Beatles, I mean the logic of thinking that nothing relevant happened until you came on the scene. It's egomania in a way.
It's like trying to talk to someone about World War I and they say "it's before my time", i.e. so it didn't matter cos my birth altered the cosmos and nothing important ever happened before that!
You're not too young (or old) to enjoy ANYTHING from Mozart to Lady Gaga. You just open your mind and if you don't enjoy them then that's fine. Just don't say you're too young to do so.
I can never understand the logic of that. I don't mean just The Beatles, I mean the logic of thinking that nothing relevant happened until you came on the scene. It's egomania in a way.
It's like trying to talk to someone about World War I and they say "it's before my time", i.e. so it didn't matter cos my birth altered the cosmos and nothing important ever happened before that!
You're not too young (or old) to enjoy ANYTHING from Mozart to Lady Gaga. You just open your mind and if you don't enjoy them then that's fine. Just don't say you're too young to do so.
Well how relevant was/is John Lennon, after all the debate on here all that remains to be said is 30 years after his death vigils were held all over the world to celebrate his life,there are not too many artists around now today whom i would think that would be said of.
To many people he is one of the most relevant artists of the modern era the fact so many people some not even about, or born just before his death turned out as well as hardened fans says a lot about his lasting impact and legacy.
And a lot of that legacy was achieved after the Beatles actually broke up.:)
A lot of you posting on this thread seriously need to do some research before posting
actually durin a tv program in an interview with Chapman he stated he shot John because he believed he would get john`s fame by doing so
also The beatles had a major influence within the likes of Russia and made a huge contribution to helping bring about the changes that ultimately led to the fall of the wall !
LOL
Really....from one pop song
I think the fall of the wall is credited to the Scorpions song where the singer whistles the tune....:D
as for why the assertion that foreigners love Beatles more....dont see a queue of young and old British folk outside the Beatles museums and streets of Liverpool. Its mainly Japanese and Americans (and now it appears Indians/Russians with money to spend)
Yes, its silly how some folk try to separate them, a lot of the songs were written together, some are unmistakably Lennon or McCartney but the extraordinary creativity they, along with GM had can't be placed solely on John's or Paul's shoulders. It was a dynamic. The later albums were truly groundbreaking, without them many of todays writers wouldn't have a career-Oasis, Beck etc Post Beatles Lennon's stuff blows away anything by Wings but I forgive McCartney a lot cos he was amazing in the Beatles. They have made my life immeasurably better.
As for the bolded bit, I'm completely the opposite. I much preferred Paul's stuff with Wings to anything John did post Beatles. If you ever get a chance, get the RAM album, which could easily have been a Beatles album.
I know Paul became seen as being Mr Unfashionable for many years, whereas Lennon stayed cool and legendary, but I really think that a lot of McCartney's contributions to the Beatles and his later stuff is massively under-rated.
Well how relevant was/is John Lennon, after all the debate on here all that remains to be said is 30 years after his death vigils were held all over the world to celebrate his life,there are not too many artists around now today whom i would think that would be said of.
To many people he is one of the most relevant artists of the modern era the fact so many people some not even about, or born just before his death turned out as well as hardened fans says a lot about his lasting impact and legacy.
And a lot of that legacy was achieved after the Beatles actually broke up.:)
Yep, I think the song Imagine has had a greater impact on people than any single Beatles song has.
Ask anyone what is the Beatles defining song and you'd probably get a hundred different answers.
also The beatles had a major influence within the likes of Russia and made a huge contribution to helping bring about the changes that ultimately led to the fall of the wall !
Oh yeah I remember that. Wasn't this mentioned when Paul McCartney performed there again more recently.
I remember a certain Russian guy wetting his pants in his admiration for the Beatles and what they did for his country.
Its a bit crazy to say Lennon wasn’t appreciated in his own country. Its an understatement to say he seems pretty well regarded as a British icon. He had a great outlook, not all his views were agreed by everyone but it was his intentions that counted. He knew he was flawed, as everyone is but he was all about making things better, including himself. It was a tragedy that he died when he did as he seemed to be approaching some piece of mind.
He was a very influential and powerful figure in many ways. Probably too much for his own good, considering his lack of security, people like that always seem to not make it, whether its self inflicted or not. They are just too big an influence.
He was obviously instrumental in creating one of the best bands of all time. taste is obviously subjective but it cant be denied that they were amazing as a group. They had such an incredible range and did a ton of diverse material during the decade they were around. Most people i know just see them as the 60s teeny boppers and not even bothered finding out about their more experimental works, winds me right up!
He was a great man, no doubt about it. I’m still in two minds about Yoko being a massive negative in his life though. In one way what do we know? He obviously loved her and she gave him a lot of what he needed. In another sense it was like she brain washed him in the later years, so he ended up cutting links with his previous family and friends. A complex life for a complex man, shame it didn’t go on long enough to see where it would have went.
I can never understand the logic of that. I don't mean just The Beatles, I mean the logic of thinking that nothing relevant happened until you came on the scene. It's egomania in a way.
It's like trying to talk to someone about World War I and they say "it's before my time", i.e. so it didn't matter cos my birth altered the cosmos and nothing important ever happened before that!
You're not too young (or old) to enjoy ANYTHING from Mozart to Lady Gaga. You just open your mind and if you don't enjoy them then that's fine. Just don't say you're too young to do so.
agreed, big time. the young thing gets on my tiits and people seem much less eager these days too look back
I don't know whether John Lennon meant something to others.
All I can say with certainty is, he meant something to me.
I didn't know him, except through his music.
He wasn't my 'favourite Beatle'.
I didn't agree with a lot of the things he said.
But equally, I shared his desire for world peace and his deep distrust of 'the man'.
Say what you like about John Lennon, but his music stands the test of time.
I remember very well how shocking the announcement of his murder was. It felt like a piece of my youth had been torn away.
If he doesn't seem relevant to you then that's fine.
I felt like that about Elvis. His death didn't touch me at all.
Grief is personal, and needs no justification or apology.
You either feel it, or you don't.
to the people who say Lennons solo stuff wasn't up to much...all i have to say to that is............
Frog chorus.
Nuff said
Well I was a child at the time and i loved it.;) I think I prefer something as harmless and childish as that, that the pretentiousness of a song like Imagine. His messiah complex did really put me off.
Anyway for me the best solo Beatle was George actually.
The Beatles were an amazing band, regardless if you like the music or not , I'm more a Stones type of girl, people simply have to recognize they did change the music world. Sometimes it goes beyond personal taste, you just have to see it as it is.
I've just watched a History channel documetary on the death of John Lennon and what came across was the total shock and disbelief of people who were connected to him. The impact of his murder was up there with Kennedy, Martin Luther king etc. Compare his solo work with McCartney's after the Beatles split and it's obvious where the talent lay. O.K.he was far from perfect as a human being but as a writer and performer he was second to none.
Despite the stupidity of the threads title lets celebrate the man and post some of his best tracks. Show the people that don’t know much about him why he is so well regarded, at least as a musician. as for his other faults, no great figure is without his these and he did regret the time lost with his family, the tradegy was that he was going a mend bridges before he was killed, so who knows what wrongs he might have corrected?
A lot of you posting on this thread seriously need to do some research before posting
actually durin a tv program in an interview with Chapman he stated he shot John because he believed he would get john`s fame by doing so
also The beatles had a major influence within the likes of Russia and made a huge contribution to helping bring about the changes that ultimately led to the fall of the wall !
to the people who say Lennons solo stuff wasn't up to much...all i have to say to that is............
Frog chorus.
Like Yellow Submarine and All Together Now, it was written for children and as such fulfills its purpose.The use of the Frog Chorus to indicate Paul's lack of talent is one of the laziest and most misguided repetitions in Beatle debates.
I have no idea how old you are, but none of those events are in any way meaningful to the Beatles legacy. They're just part of the legend.
1) Lennon's "bigger than Jesus" remark said far more about the reactionary religious heartland of America than it ever did about the Beatles.
2) In the early 60's, girls screamed at everything. Just ask the Stones, The Animals, The Kinks, The Hollies, The Dave Clark Five, The Everly Brothers etc,. etc. etc...
3) The vast majority of ALL bands and artists (those at the cutting edge) went psychedelic in the 60's. Most, if not all, looked to The Beatles for guidance.
4) The Bed-in was a farce. John, Yoko and their acorns. Still, we got a neat single out of it.
They still do...
To add to the discussion, I'm French in my late 40s... my very first recollection of the Beatles in real time was hearing the news of them splitting up and seeing the video of "Let it Be" on our old B&W TV... then a few years later there was a programme about them and I fell in love with them and their music... been a fan ever since (my fav was George)... my niece was not born when John was killed, but like everyone else she got to hear their songs and she loves them too... This is what makes the Beatles so special... they transcend age and music boundaries, and their influence goes way beyond music, especially with John. That's why they are loved the world over....
People might think they are overrated, or just don't "get" them, but no-one can deny their lasting influence on music and society in broader terms...
Yes, its silly how some folk try to separate them, a lot of the songs were written together, some are unmistakably Lennon or McCartney but the extraordinary creativity they, along with GM had can't be placed solely on John's or Paul's shoulders. It was a dynamic. The later albums were truly groundbreaking, without them many of todays writers wouldn't have a career-Oasis, Beck etc
Post Beatles Lennon's stuff blows away anything by Wings but I forgive McCartney a lot cos he was amazing in the Beatles. They have made my life immeasurably better.
All the stuff I've read about Lennon suggests he was a difficult man with a lot of anger, i wouldn't have liked to have known him in person but as an artist and innovator I have huge respect for him.
The Stones simply stole black american music and made it their own, they managed one style brilliantly but I don't find the same depth or progression there, lyrically or musically.
It's all been John vs Paul so far... can we give George a bit of credit for his contribution, with and after the Beatles???
Comments
Lennon, strange man. Preaching all the give peace a chance and then donating money to the IRA to bomb the UK. Going on pro IRA marches in New York.
and changing the face of pop music forever and influencing countless other musicians sort of helped the hype along as well as bringing out albums with hit after hit after hit on them, unlike any other band at the time. :rolleyes:
I think you must be too young to remember music before the Beatles;)
I don't really get that you can appreciate Leonard Cohen and Bowie, but not appreciate the writing talent and innovation of the Beatles. I love Leonard Cohen, but I can't say he deserves legend status 'far more' than the Beatles.
The Beatles opened the floodgates of creativity in pop music in the UK . It was all rock and Roll and ballads before that. Around the same time we had the likes of Stevie Wonder and the Supremes which also brought a whole new sound to people in the UK. Great times for pop music,
Yes, its silly how some folk try to separate them, a lot of the songs were written together, some are unmistakably Lennon or McCartney but the extraordinary creativity they, along with GM had can't be placed solely on John's or Paul's shoulders. It was a dynamic. The later albums were truly groundbreaking, without them many of todays writers wouldn't have a career-Oasis, Beck etc
Post Beatles Lennon's stuff blows away anything by Wings but I forgive McCartney a lot cos he was amazing in the Beatles. They have made my life immeasurably better.
All the stuff I've read about Lennon suggests he was a difficult man with a lot of anger, i wouldn't have liked to have known him in person but as an artist and innovator I have huge respect for him.
The Stones simply stole black american music and made it their own, they managed one style brilliantly but I don't find the same depth or progression there, lyrically or musically.
A lot of you posting on this thread seriously need to do some research before posting
actually durin a tv program in an interview with Chapman he stated he shot John because he believed he would get john`s fame by doing so
also The beatles had a major influence within the likes of Russia and made a huge contribution to helping bring about the changes that ultimately led to the fall of the wall !
I can appreciate music from all era's, though maybe not so much when I was a teenager.But it is a bit ignorant to dismiss something as having no relevance because they don't personally like it. There are only a few artists in each century that have a profound influence on music and the Beatles have to be up there as one of the most influential artists of the 20th century.
I can never understand the logic of that. I don't mean just The Beatles, I mean the logic of thinking that nothing relevant happened until you came on the scene. It's egomania in a way.
It's like trying to talk to someone about World War I and they say "it's before my time", i.e. so it didn't matter cos my birth altered the cosmos and nothing important ever happened before that!
You're not too young (or old) to enjoy ANYTHING from Mozart to Lady Gaga. You just open your mind and if you don't enjoy them then that's fine. Just don't say you're too young to do so.
I adore both bands - fantastic music.
Very true.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11947118
To many people he is one of the most relevant artists of the modern era the fact so many people some not even about, or born just before his death turned out as well as hardened fans says a lot about his lasting impact and legacy.
And a lot of that legacy was achieved after the Beatles actually broke up.:)
LOL
Really....from one pop song
I think the fall of the wall is credited to the Scorpions song where the singer whistles the tune....:D
as for why the assertion that foreigners love Beatles more....dont see a queue of young and old British folk outside the Beatles museums and streets of Liverpool. Its mainly Japanese and Americans (and now it appears Indians/Russians with money to spend)
As for the bolded bit, I'm completely the opposite. I much preferred Paul's stuff with Wings to anything John did post Beatles. If you ever get a chance, get the RAM album, which could easily have been a Beatles album.
I know Paul became seen as being Mr Unfashionable for many years, whereas Lennon stayed cool and legendary, but I really think that a lot of McCartney's contributions to the Beatles and his later stuff is massively under-rated.
Yep, I think the song Imagine has had a greater impact on people than any single Beatles song has.
Ask anyone what is the Beatles defining song and you'd probably get a hundred different answers.
Oh yeah I remember that. Wasn't this mentioned when Paul McCartney performed there again more recently.
I remember a certain Russian guy wetting his pants in his admiration for the Beatles and what they did for his country.
He was a very influential and powerful figure in many ways. Probably too much for his own good, considering his lack of security, people like that always seem to not make it, whether its self inflicted or not. They are just too big an influence.
He was obviously instrumental in creating one of the best bands of all time. taste is obviously subjective but it cant be denied that they were amazing as a group. They had such an incredible range and did a ton of diverse material during the decade they were around. Most people i know just see them as the 60s teeny boppers and not even bothered finding out about their more experimental works, winds me right up!
He was a great man, no doubt about it. I’m still in two minds about Yoko being a massive negative in his life though. In one way what do we know? He obviously loved her and she gave him a lot of what he needed. In another sense it was like she brain washed him in the later years, so he ended up cutting links with his previous family and friends. A complex life for a complex man, shame it didn’t go on long enough to see where it would have went.
agreed, big time. the young thing gets on my tiits and people seem much less eager these days too look back
:rolleyes:
All I can say with certainty is, he meant something to me.
I didn't know him, except through his music.
He wasn't my 'favourite Beatle'.
I didn't agree with a lot of the things he said.
But equally, I shared his desire for world peace and his deep distrust of 'the man'.
Say what you like about John Lennon, but his music stands the test of time.
I remember very well how shocking the announcement of his murder was. It felt like a piece of my youth had been torn away.
If he doesn't seem relevant to you then that's fine.
I felt like that about Elvis. His death didn't touch me at all.
Grief is personal, and needs no justification or apology.
You either feel it, or you don't.
Well I was a child at the time and i loved it.;) I think I prefer something as harmless and childish as that, that the pretentiousness of a song like Imagine. His messiah complex did really put me off.
Anyway for me the best solo Beatle was George actually.
The Beatles were an amazing band, regardless if you like the music or not , I'm more a Stones type of girl, people simply have to recognize they did change the music world. Sometimes it goes beyond personal taste, you just have to see it as it is.
And cruelly ignoring his first child, Julian. If you can't even be good to your own children it kinda negates the rest of the stuff for me.
Favourite Lennon tack: -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5j-S6Eq81g
The Beatles a boy band? LOL
I'm sorry but you're both wrong there.
There is only one person responsible for bringing down the Berlin wall, and it wasn't Lennon/The Beatles or Scorpions....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3465301.stm
They still do...
To add to the discussion, I'm French in my late 40s... my very first recollection of the Beatles in real time was hearing the news of them splitting up and seeing the video of "Let it Be" on our old B&W TV... then a few years later there was a programme about them and I fell in love with them and their music... been a fan ever since (my fav was George)... my niece was not born when John was killed, but like everyone else she got to hear their songs and she loves them too... This is what makes the Beatles so special... they transcend age and music boundaries, and their influence goes way beyond music, especially with John. That's why they are loved the world over....
People might think they are overrated, or just don't "get" them, but no-one can deny their lasting influence on music and society in broader terms...
It's all been John vs Paul so far... can we give George a bit of credit for his contribution, with and after the Beatles???