What has being scientific got to do with liking or disliking a movie? Does the fact that a lot of people like this movie invalidate the opinion of those who dont?
It's not really fair to say that because The Joker is central to the plot of TDK. I mean would you say that Scarface doesn't work without Tony Montana or that The Godfather Part II doesn't work without Vito Corleone? No you wouldn't.
I am unsure which part you thought was unfair of my comment, but I am assuming it is the bit that said without The Joker we would have had another Batman Begins?
Yes I understand the Joker is central to the plot - which is also why I think that The Dark Knight is a stronger film, without Heath Ledger doing such an excellent job bringing the character alive, I just think we would have ended up with another Batman Begins, which was fun to watch but it was really nothing special, and had a fair few points in the film where you could have nipped to the toilet or refilled your popcorn without missing anything of value.
I stand by my point and think that my opinion is a valid one, if you disagree that is completely up to you, but I think The Joker made the film a much better sequel.
One thing in favour of TDK over many modern action movies - no shaky-cam! Kudos to Nolan for that, and also kudos to him for telling the studio that TDKR will NOT be filmed using the gimmick that is 3D.
I loved the film, but Batman's low "growling" voice was almost unbearable at times. I didn't see the point of it when he's dealing with people who know who he is, like when he's talking to Gordon or Lucius Fox. It put me out of the film at times.
Gordon doesn't know who he is, though yeah it's stupid when he's talking to Fox. Batman's voice was done better in Batman Begins.
when i first saw it i was disappointed, it is kinda boring in places. the best parts are when hes on the motorbike and the first 10 mins. but compared to other superhero films i think its definatly one of the best
The film takes itself far too seriously. Definitely overrated and too confined by formulas of the superhero genre. I was itching for it to finish.
All of his other films are far superior - Momentum, Insomnia, The Prestige - they'll have you guessing and captivated. The Batmans are just a bit of eye candy to go with your popcorn.
Two years on and I've still not seen it and don't care or feel left out that I haven't. I'll probably skip it and go onto Batman 3, unless that too is hyped to death in which case I won't bother with that one either.
The film takes itself far too seriously. Definitely overrated and too confined by formulas of the superhero genre. I was itching for it to finish.
All of his other films are far superior - Momentum, Insomnia, The Prestige - they'll have you guessing and captivated. The Batmans are just a bit of eye candy to go with your popcorn.
haven't seen Momentum , but I thought TDK was way better than the prestige or insomnia .
Two years on and I've still not seen it and don't care or feel left out that I haven't. I'll probably skip it and go onto Batman 3, unless that too is hyped to death in which case I won't bother with that one either.
So you don't watch films that a hugely advertised and films that people enjoy and therefore talk highly of the film? Not trying to start a fight, I just thought it was weird that you would give a film a miss just because of the hype of a film, surely you should see if you like it yourself, of course if it wasn't your type of film then you wouldn't see it but this doesn't seem to be the case with this film.
haven't seen Momentum , but I thought TDK was way better than the prestige or insomnia .
I felt a lot more for the characters in those films than the Batman ones. They're all stereotyped and the hero has 'parental issues/flashbacks' - yawn.
Still I'd recommend you try Memento, it's genius and nothing like you've ever seen (+ stars that guy who used to be in neighbours!)
I felt a lot more for the characters in those films than the Batman ones. They're all stereotyped and the hero has 'parental issues/flashbacks' - yawn.
Still I'd recommend you try Memento, it's genius and nothing like you've ever seen (+ stars that guy who used to be in neighbours!)
I felt a lot more for the characters in those films than the Batman ones. They're all stereotyped and the hero has 'parental issues/flashbacks' - yawn.
Still I'd recommend you try Memento, it's genius and nothing like you've ever seen (+ stars that guy who used to be in neighbours!)
You do know Bruce Wayne's parents die right? Batman is always going to have parental issues. Plus BB was an origin story so its more than likely you will have flashbacks. As far as I remember TDK had no flashbacks
TDK isnt over rated, Ledger's performance is. As very good as it was, any half decent actor can play the Joker. Let's face it, it's not that hard of a role to play. There hasnt been a bad one yet. Each actor who's played the role has brought something unique to the character. Ledger was no better or worse than, say, Mark Hamill or Jack Nicholson.
Ledger was no better or worse than, say, Mark Hamill or Jack Nicholson.
Sorry, disagree. Ledger was miles better than Nicholson, who threw in a lazy, deeply predictable turn. It was exactly what you expected a Nicholson Joker to be. No surprise and no real sense of danger. A shame, really, as Burton's flawed but interesting take on Batman could've been so much more. I remember at the time people were saying that Batman himself, Michael keaton, would've made a more interesting Joker, and they have a point.
I remember when it was announced that Heath Ledger would be The Joker and forums were going mental (in a bad way) saying stuff like "that one from brokeback mountain" or "!what the hell was Nolan thinking" and "how dare they make The Joker in to a kid". But as soon as the theatrical trailer went out so many people said "OH MY GOD". Nobody expected Ledger to be like that. He looked fantastic in the role and di not dissapoint when the movie was released. I was one of many that was eager to see this film before his death.
Sorry, disagree. Ledger was miles better than Nicholson, who threw in a lazy, deeply predictable turn. It was exactly what you expected a Nicholson Joker to be. No surprise and no real sense of danger. A shame, really, as Burton's flawed but interesting take on Batman could've been so much more. I remember at the time people were saying that Batman himself, Michael keaton, would've made a more interesting Joker, and they have a point.
No need to be sorry, we all have our opinions.
We must have been reading different reviews though. As I recall Nicholson was highly praised at the time for his performance. I dont disagree that his take on it wasnt predicatbly Nicholson-like, it was. I just wouldnt call it lazy or a bad thing though.
It's a shame there has to be this JN vs HL thing. Truth is, both were good performances for the respective takes on the world of Batman...can you imagine Nolan's/Ledger's Joker in Burton's movie? It would have been terribly out of place, & vice versa of course.
Ledger was 10,000x better than anyone else who played the Joker. His performance was spine-chilling, death or not, and he really bought TDK alive. The film overall is a bit overrated/overhyped but Ledgers performance is nothing short of amazing.
This thread is keeping the HL fanboys busy isn't it? He's the new James Dean. Spared the indignity of his decline by his premature death. Good career move though.
Ledger was about to become massive after this film. cut down in his prime but he had serious problems. some people are not built to live a long life but have that impact while they are young
as a film i thought it was great, as pointed out it had a few faults but i overlooked them becuase the film achieved more than i thought it would. the hype had an opposite effect for me. im so used to massive hype then disappointment, i was expecting TDK to be an average film but was surprised to see an amasing creation by ledger and some of the most awsome action set pieces in cinema history. i enjoyed the flow of the film, even though it was so long, i just sat there trasfixed and let myself get sucked in. people make the mistake of not relaxing and just watching a film, experiencing it. i know so many that moan about legnth. i could watch a film of that quality all day lol
So you don't watch films that a hugely advertised and films that people enjoy and therefore talk highly of the film? Not trying to start a fight, I just thought it was weird that you would give a film a miss just because of the hype of a film, surely you should see if you like it yourself, of course if it wasn't your type of film then you wouldn't see it but this doesn't seem to be the case with this film.
I do tire of over-publicised, over-hyped and especially films that get "appreciated" by fand to the point of it becoming sacrilige to even think anything negative about it.
I was bored of this film months before it was even released purely because of Heath Ledger. He died when the film was still being edited and already people that supposedly had seen bits of it were saying about he should get an Oscar next year he is that great. As the months went on the hype went up and up and you couldn't read any review without reading about Heath Ledger is dead blah blah blah.
How does that make the film any better or worse?
Then once released the fanboys kicked in and it went into hyperdrive and they would attack anything and everything. They could release an Disney film and it's shit and not as good as TDK. Are they the same genre or style of film? No! Are they aimed at the same audience demographic? No!
All these fanboys did was make people dislike the film more and more regardless of whether they've seen it or not.
Before this film we had the whole LOTR are the greatest films ever made. No they aren't IMO. I've never watched one and not fallen asleep or switched it off and gone do womething else. Since this film we have had it with Avatar. It's incredible... blah blah. 3D...blah blah blah.
Whether it's films, music, TV or anything the more hype there is around it the less interested I am in it. It's like there; is an cut off switch in my head. I think I can best describe it as being like the start of X Factor. All the big dramatic music, The OTT voice over "Simon.... Cheryl... Danni... Louis... THE JUDGES!!!!" All that complete OTT and it's just a silly little karaoke singing contest but it's treated and presented as if it's an world changing or world enhancing experience.
Because I can go to the cinema on a weekday when people are at work or in school I'll either see it on the day it opens before the excessive word of mouth stuff starts or I'll leave it until roughly the last week before it's pulled from the cinema to let the hype die down and move onto another film. If it's so big that I still can't get bothered by it I'll wait for it to come on TV at somepoint in the future.
I've lost track of the number of the films I've wanted to see at the cinema and missed even when they've turned up on Sky Movies. But it's cool. My life isn't any worse off for not seeing them.
If I'm in the room and someone puts TDK or Avatar on then I'll watch it, but otherwise I've tons of other films and TV shows I want to see or have but still need to watch before either of those two.
I dont know why people dont ignore hype and accept a piece of work for what it is. Hating something because of hype is daft because you end up looking unreasonable when it actually is decent. or if it wasnt to your taste, then its overhyped. to many TDK lived up to it, a lot of films dont so its nice to appreciate it when that does happen beacause it pretty rare isnt it
Comments
What has being scientific got to do with liking or disliking a movie? Does the fact that a lot of people like this movie invalidate the opinion of those who dont?
I am unsure which part you thought was unfair of my comment, but I am assuming it is the bit that said without The Joker we would have had another Batman Begins?
Yes I understand the Joker is central to the plot - which is also why I think that The Dark Knight is a stronger film, without Heath Ledger doing such an excellent job bringing the character alive, I just think we would have ended up with another Batman Begins, which was fun to watch but it was really nothing special, and had a fair few points in the film where you could have nipped to the toilet or refilled your popcorn without missing anything of value.
I stand by my point and think that my opinion is a valid one, if you disagree that is completely up to you, but I think The Joker made the film a much better sequel.
Gordon doesn't know who he is, though yeah it's stupid when he's talking to Fox. Batman's voice was done better in Batman Begins.
This type of response really riles me. You're clearly not allowed to go against the majority and have an individual opinion :rolleyes:
I also think it's overrated. Good, but not amazing. Do I deserve to be shot now? :eek::eek::eek:
No film is overated
All of his other films are far superior - Momentum, Insomnia, The Prestige - they'll have you guessing and captivated. The Batmans are just a bit of eye candy to go with your popcorn.
haven't seen Momentum , but I thought TDK was way better than the prestige or insomnia .
So you don't watch films that a hugely advertised and films that people enjoy and therefore talk highly of the film? Not trying to start a fight, I just thought it was weird that you would give a film a miss just because of the hype of a film, surely you should see if you like it yourself, of course if it wasn't your type of film then you wouldn't see it but this doesn't seem to be the case with this film.
I felt a lot more for the characters in those films than the Batman ones. They're all stereotyped and the hero has 'parental issues/flashbacks' - yawn.
Still I'd recommend you try Memento, it's genius and nothing like you've ever seen (+ stars that guy who used to be in neighbours!)
yeah I've seen Memento , it's good .
Oh right yeah, 'Momentum'. Indeed, no-one's seen that!
You do know Bruce Wayne's parents die right? Batman is always going to have parental issues. Plus BB was an origin story so its more than likely you will have flashbacks. As far as I remember TDK had no flashbacks
TDK isnt over rated, Ledger's performance is. As very good as it was, any half decent actor can play the Joker. Let's face it, it's not that hard of a role to play. There hasnt been a bad one yet. Each actor who's played the role has brought something unique to the character. Ledger was no better or worse than, say, Mark Hamill or Jack Nicholson.
Sorry, disagree. Ledger was miles better than Nicholson, who threw in a lazy, deeply predictable turn. It was exactly what you expected a Nicholson Joker to be. No surprise and no real sense of danger. A shame, really, as Burton's flawed but interesting take on Batman could've been so much more. I remember at the time people were saying that Batman himself, Michael keaton, would've made a more interesting Joker, and they have a point.
No need to be sorry, we all have our opinions.
We must have been reading different reviews though. As I recall Nicholson was highly praised at the time for his performance. I dont disagree that his take on it wasnt predicatbly Nicholson-like, it was. I just wouldnt call it lazy or a bad thing though.
It's a shame there has to be this JN vs HL thing. Truth is, both were good performances for the respective takes on the world of Batman...can you imagine Nolan's/Ledger's Joker in Burton's movie? It would have been terribly out of place, & vice versa of course.
as a film i thought it was great, as pointed out it had a few faults but i overlooked them becuase the film achieved more than i thought it would. the hype had an opposite effect for me. im so used to massive hype then disappointment, i was expecting TDK to be an average film but was surprised to see an amasing creation by ledger and some of the most awsome action set pieces in cinema history. i enjoyed the flow of the film, even though it was so long, i just sat there trasfixed and let myself get sucked in. people make the mistake of not relaxing and just watching a film, experiencing it. i know so many that moan about legnth. i could watch a film of that quality all day lol
I do tire of over-publicised, over-hyped and especially films that get "appreciated" by fand to the point of it becoming sacrilige to even think anything negative about it.
I was bored of this film months before it was even released purely because of Heath Ledger. He died when the film was still being edited and already people that supposedly had seen bits of it were saying about he should get an Oscar next year he is that great. As the months went on the hype went up and up and you couldn't read any review without reading about Heath Ledger is dead blah blah blah.
How does that make the film any better or worse?
Then once released the fanboys kicked in and it went into hyperdrive and they would attack anything and everything. They could release an Disney film and it's shit and not as good as TDK. Are they the same genre or style of film? No! Are they aimed at the same audience demographic? No!
All these fanboys did was make people dislike the film more and more regardless of whether they've seen it or not.
Before this film we had the whole LOTR are the greatest films ever made. No they aren't IMO. I've never watched one and not fallen asleep or switched it off and gone do womething else. Since this film we have had it with Avatar. It's incredible... blah blah. 3D...blah blah blah.
Whether it's films, music, TV or anything the more hype there is around it the less interested I am in it. It's like there; is an cut off switch in my head. I think I can best describe it as being like the start of X Factor. All the big dramatic music, The OTT voice over "Simon.... Cheryl... Danni... Louis... THE JUDGES!!!!" All that complete OTT and it's just a silly little karaoke singing contest but it's treated and presented as if it's an world changing or world enhancing experience.
Because I can go to the cinema on a weekday when people are at work or in school I'll either see it on the day it opens before the excessive word of mouth stuff starts or I'll leave it until roughly the last week before it's pulled from the cinema to let the hype die down and move onto another film. If it's so big that I still can't get bothered by it I'll wait for it to come on TV at somepoint in the future.
I've lost track of the number of the films I've wanted to see at the cinema and missed even when they've turned up on Sky Movies. But it's cool. My life isn't any worse off for not seeing them.
If I'm in the room and someone puts TDK or Avatar on then I'll watch it, but otherwise I've tons of other films and TV shows I want to see or have but still need to watch before either of those two.