whats the best way to deal with bitter childless friend?
Phoenixbliss
Posts: 9,478 Forum Member
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I have a friend who has recently gone through the menopause.She hasnt had any children and now its too late.Shes full of regret as its realistically too late.The regret is consuming her and mutating into great bitterness/sourness-to the point she is openly hostile because of jealousy of anyone she knows who is having a baby or planning to have one.
I stress her childlessness is as far as I know NOT due to infertility but because circumstances never came right and so she kept on putting off having one as the time /circumstances werent right and she didnt think she would be bothered if she remained childless.But something has flicked in her heart post menopause and shes full of woe and anger and i dont know how or if I can help.Its making her personality really ugly.
I stress her childlessness is as far as I know NOT due to infertility but because circumstances never came right and so she kept on putting off having one as the time /circumstances werent right and she didnt think she would be bothered if she remained childless.But something has flicked in her heart post menopause and shes full of woe and anger and i dont know how or if I can help.Its making her personality really ugly.
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Maybe instead of thinking of her as your 'bitter, childless friend', think of her as your 'hurting, confused and upset friend'.
Have you tried talking to her? I don't know if you're the same age or if you have children, but not having them can affect people severely, and people react in different ways.
I think she's going through hell right now and needs people around her who will give her a break and care about how she's feeling.
This ^
Also remember that if she has recently gone through the menopause a lot of emotions could be all over the place and will take her a while to settle down. Teenagers can get away with mood swings at the other end of it so can pregnant women. Hormones changing can have effects that are hard to keep under control.
Invite her to join DS - She'd fit right in.....
you can`t stop people feeling things, best you can do is listen and point her in the direction of professional help if she needs it.
My mum has just lost my dad recently and there are 4 of us siblings all visiting all the time,helping her out etc..she has a friend who keeps calling who is also widowed and keeps saying to my mum you have no reason to be upset you have got 4 children,you are not on your own..I am,I have nob ody etc..she is very,very bitter..
Now the way I see it..this woman never wanted children..whilst my mum was raising 4 children and my dad working hard running the family farm they took family short breaks,bought us children nice clothes etc instead of themselves,Christmas was noisy and hard work for my mum catering for family and then extended fasmily as we all got married,had children etc..the list goes on but you get the idea..
Meanwhile this woman had an easy life with just her and her husband to clean up after,take care of..they had several holidays a year cruises and luxury accomodation..always had very expensive clothes,nice cars etc..noone else to spend their money on..
My mum has never commented to her friend throughout their lives about how much easier she has it than my mum and how she has had freedom to do whatever she has wanted when my mum has always had children to consider..
So why all of a suddent should my mums friend be so bitter about it all and almost trying to make my mum feel guilty at such a sad and difficult time..
I am sorry..but I have taken the children route and have 3..we do miss out on some things..holidays are more basic,christmas is all about the children and my husband and i buy eachother just a token present etc..but that is our choice..we do have firneds with no children who jet off here and there at the drop of a hat,have a much nicer car,better clothes etc..but I wouldnt swap my children for any of that..those that choose not to have children should remember this and not come crying when they reach a certain age and see friends with adult children visiting with grandchildren etc..it is hard work day in day raising a family but it is lovely to think you can watch that family develop over the years and maybe raise their own family..childless women will not have this,but that has been their choice..no good crying now.
I don't know how good a friend you are of hers, but if you are a good friend then I feel you need to try and bring her to her senses before she alienates everyone. Saying things that people don't necessarily want to hear is all part of being a good friend in my view. It's how you say it that counts but sometimes things need to be said. Being understanding is obviously important but it really isn't right to be showing open hostility to people who are not involved in her situation.
Do you go for the selfish life, doing exactly what you want, having a high flying career, lovely holidays etc?
Or do you go the self-sacrficiing route looking after your family, putting aside some career ambitions, losing spontenaity?
There are pros and cons with both. Whatever path you choose you can find it to be a mistake.
Sometimes ambitions can seem everything when you are young and when you get to a certain age (and you've been made redundant) your realise how empty those career dreams were.
I feel sorry for this woman but if she has reached the menopause then realistically she is old enough to be a granny or for her kids to have left home. You can't keep them forever.
^^This, or failing that can she not become a speical auntie to some of her friends children? I know there were times I felt I couldn't speak to my Mum about some stuff and her friend (my 'Auntie') was always there for me, made it easier that she wasn't my Mum's Sister too....
I think that's a really lovely idea!
It just depends on how much of a friend she is - a casual aquaintence - just drop them if the irritate - a close friend - worth trying to get to the bottom of the problem rather than just throwing on a label
Dont want to sound harsh but she is going to have to get over it..she has made the decision to live a life without ties and commitments..now suddenly she wants all the rewards that come from putting the hard work and effort in..you cant have it all.. I have started the hot flushes and first symptoms of menopause but rather than burden everyone else with it..if I feel I need help I will go and get it..it is not for everyone else to suffer.
Although I wouldnt go as far to say that I am bitter and angry about not having children.
You dont say how old your friend is, but if she wants children, there are other ways of doing this, for example adoption.
When someone you care about opens up to you and tells you that they have problems conceiving a child, they are likely to be distressed and extremely sensitive to comments made by others. You may also be embarrassed and now know what to say without making them feel worse, or you may not appreciate the implications of this problem to the couple concerned and what effect it will have on them. A caring attitude can make all the difference to infertile couples and how they are able to deal with their problem, yet it is hard for people who have not been in the same situation to understand what they are experiencing and to predict what is the right or wrong things to say.
Unfortunately, even the most well meaning comments can be quite hurtful or cause misunderstandings. This article was compiled by a group of people experiencing fertility problems in order to communicate their needs to those who wish to help.
ASKING QUESTIONS
In general, couples prefer it if friends and relatives show an interest in their problems and ask how their investigations/treatment/adoption is going and how they are feeling. It is preferable that you ask ( or ask if it is OK to ask) than say nothing because you are afraid of upsetting them. This may give the impression that you don’t care.
ACCEPTANCE AND ADVICE
It is very important you accept that the couple really do have a fertility problem if they tell you so. They may already have been trying for a baby for many months or years, so dismissing their problems by saying that it’s only a matter of time, for example, does not help. There is probably a genuine medical reason, even if it hasn’t been discovered yet. Advice not to think about it, not to try too hard, not to get stressed, or advice about how their lifestyle may be causing the problem may make them feel that you ‘think its their fault’, which it is not. Please leave the advice to the medics.
REASSURANCE AND ENCOURAGEMENT
There is little reassurance you can give to an infertile couple about whether they will eventually have a baby or not. Once they have been trying for a baby for two years or more, the chances of a natural pregnancy each month are very low. Insisting that they will succeed because someone you know did after several years is like telling someone they WILL have a big win on the lottery. It would be very nice, but you have no way of knowing for certain). A couple may want to explore alternatives such as adoption to achieve the family they long for so much.
Fertility treatment offers hope for many couples. However, success rates per treatment are not brilliant and they need several attempts before they may achieve pregnancy. Sadly, there are some couples who will never succeed to have their own child, no matter what treatment they receive. No one can predict the outcome of each treatment cycle or who will succeed eventually. Going for fertility treatment is not like going for a job interview; a positive attitude does not improve ones’ chances of success, so advocating ‘positive thinking’ is not necessarily helpful. Please try to understand that the couple may want to be more realistic about the chances of success, as this helps them prepare for a negative outcome.
SYMPATHY AND SUPPORT
Sympathy is appropriate in infertility. Infertility is like a bereavement, although there is nothing to focus the grief upon. Infertile couples are painfully aware of what they have lost when they see other couples with their families or when fertility treatment fails. The grieving process is long and drawn out because the couple cannot start to come to terms with their loss until they are satisfied they have tried all the options they are prepared to undergo, or can afford.
Infertility will be one of the worst things in life the couple will ever experience, and trying to cheer them up by telling them that things could be worse or how lucky they are not to have the responsibility of a family, for example, may make them think you regard their problem as trivial. As a rule, do not say anything to an infertile couple that you wouldn’t say to someone who has lost a child. Offering a sympathetic listening ear will probably be the most supportive thing to do. Perhaps offering to attend a clinic open evening will help you to understand what the treatment is all about, how much the couple has to go through during a treatment cycle, and show that you do care about what they are experiencing.
OTHER PEOPLE’S PREGNANCIES
It is impossible to ‘protect’ an infertile couple from other people’s pregnancies, as having babies is a fundamental part of life for most families. Most infertile couples would prefer to know about a new pregnancy as soon as possible. They want to be happy for the couple but need time to get used to the idea. Some appreciate it if a friend tells them they are planning a pregnancy too. Surprise pregnancy announcements in public can be upsetting for the couple and it would be kinder to let them know beforehand.
Generally, you can make things easier for the infertile couple by keeping them informed but not labouring the subject of pregnancies and babies. Leave it to them to ask for more details if they want to know.
OTHER PEOPLE’S FAMILIES
Some infertile couples wish to get involved with other people’s children as much as possible, especially when they are beginning to think that they may never have children themselves. Other couples find contact with children and pregnant women a painful reminder of their inability to have a baby. Therefore, it is hard to know how to treat them. Please do not assume that they will not want to join in and get involved with families, but then do not condemn them if they appear reluctant to socialise in large groups – they may prefer to meet one individual family at a time, when they are not in a minority.
SECRECY
Infertility is often regarded as a failure by the couples concerned and it erodes their self-esteem. They may not wish to admit their problem or may only want close friends and family to know. Others prefer it if everyone knows so that they don’t put their foot in it. Please respect the couple’s wishes in this respect.
JOKES
The infertile couple is unlikely to see the funny side if you refer to their problem as a joke or use derogatory terms for infertile men and women. Unfortunately, this does happen sometimes. The couple may make a joke about their problem at some time when they are ready to do so, but don’t initiate the joking yourself.
Okay I know, I know that your friend isn't infertile but for whatever reasons that she chose not to have a child earlier in her life, she will still be mourning so just be a friend and take her concerns seriously.
Whilst it's nice to think that one can be a 'special Auntie' it is not the same, absolutely isn't and whilst well meaning and easy to say if you are a parent, tread carefully and on the terms of the childless person and don't inflict your child on them. That's an awful turn of phrase but often us childless-not-by-choice ladies have to hide away sometimes. it can be too much.
Totally agree.
Does welfare reform encourage the poorest to have more children?
Should beautiful people be paid to create embryos for adoption ?
Is it right that IVF is starting to be restricted because of the deficit?
do be sure that the opinions on DS and in the media aren't making you think your friend is 'bitter' when in fact all she is, is grieving. Here's the link to the fact sheets if they are of any use.
http://www.infertilitynetworkuk.com/membershipbenefits/?id=474
Really? No sorry not me, I'm the first to admit that I am utterly ill qualified to comment on children and admire parents. Despite what I have been through I would never inflict my agonies and sadness on another person. For all I know, any parent I pass in the street or are online here has been through a long journey to parenthood and I'd never assume that it was easy for them for fear of causing offence, unlike your comments and the general tarring and feathering of all childless couples that I encounter in the media and in some parts of DS. An injection of empathy and kindness on all sides is called for.
The ones who spend their time searching for parent and/or child based threads, solely for the purpose of disrupting them with their ire and envy. I wouldn't wish infertility on anyone. Mrs Flyboy and I tried for five years to conceive and it wasn't easy. I do have copious amounts of empathy for those who are frustrated, disappointed and suffering at the prospects of not being able to have children. But then, there are those (a minority) who blame everybody else for their misfortune and accuse all other mothers and fathers of being bad parents, if they allow their children to make a slight noise, a little bit of a mess and don't tug their forelocks and say please and thank you from birth.
I am sorry if I have caused any offense, it certainly was not intended and I offer my most sincere apologies.
Thank you for the lovely post, that's much appreciated and in context yes I understand what you mean. I think we all have good and bad days but there are those who have permanently bad days aren't there
Even if that isn't the case, going through the menopause has taken any choice away from her and I can understand why she may be struggling with that.