I only discovered this was on last week so have missed most episodes, half remembered last evening and caught the last half hour, was looking forward to seeing Pete Duel and wondered why he wasn't on it and some other guy was masquerading as Heyes! Then realised it must be the episodes after he'd died I used to love this programme as a kid, my best friend and I were real little tomboys back in the 70s and we used to pretend to be them!! Even had toy guns and outfits! Strangely, I think I used to sort of fancy Ben Murphy then even though I was very young, watching them back now I can see how handsome PD was and it was such a waste.
I only discovered this was on last week so have missed most episodes, half remembered last evening and caught the last half hour, was looking forward to seeing Pete Duel and wondered why he wasn't on it and some other guy was masquerading as Heyes! Then realised it must be the episodes after he'd died I used to love this programme as a kid, my best friend and I were real little tomboys back in the 70s and we used to pretend to be them!! Even had toy guns and outfits! Strangely, I think I used to sort of fancy Ben Murphy then even though I was very young, watching them back now I can see how handsome PD was and it was such a waste.
Hello Night Owl. Yes, they started with the Roger Davis episodes yesterday. There will be 4 more episodes left in Season 2 then 12 episodes in season 3. I was surprised how many there were of his when I checked.
Don't worry about missing the PD episodes, I'm sure that they will show them again, maybe straight away or after a short gap. They are worth catching, as the chemistry between Duel and Murphy was great.
I was 11 when the series aired and Pete was my first crush. As mentioned a few posts back, even now I find it very difficult to watch Davis as Heyes. Having Davis redo the opening titles complete with the amnesty scene with the "That's a good deal?" line that Pete did so well, didn't help me warm to him, although it wasn't his fault! It must have been difficult for him to take over.
I have really enjoyed watching the Smith & Jones episodes with Pete Duel he was a phenomenally charismatic actor. Its such a shame he didn't get help for his mental health issues prior to that fateful New Years Eve in 1971.
Smith & Jones could have gone on with 6 or 7 further seasons. Who knows what a movie career this would have lead to. His contemporaries at the time were actors such a Harrison Ford, who knows what Pete Duel would have been like as a charismatic Han Solo! in the 1977 Star Wars? Or other movies during the 80's ?
At least we have the glimmer from 1971 of what could have been.
Another little girl at the time it was first on. I was grudgingly doing the washing up during the school holidays when the news was on the radio that PD had died. My friend Karen and I were great fans (although Karen preferred Ben Murphy and she also had a strange fascination for Wm Shatner, Mike Pratt and Batman, but there you go). I think we watched a couple of episodes once Roger Davis took over, and I can remember the comics all pushing Davis as a great replacement... but it never again had the same appeal.
Next time I watched it was being repeated while I was recuperating from an operation and off work.
So I've got both boxed sets on DVD (don't know if they are still available). It's interesting that the set of series 2 and 3 still show PD on the front cover and the credit alongside Ben Murphy. Davis gets a tiny mention on the back of the box with a caption to let you know that 'narrator Roger Davis took on the role of Hannibal Heyes following the untimely and unfortunate death of Pete Duel during the second season'.
I'm yet another who used to watch it when I was a kid, and I have the boxed sets. As far as I can remember, the BBC repeated seasons 1 and 2 over and over again, but never repeated season 3, or at least there were episodes of season 3 which I only remember ever seeing once until I got the boxed set. Some of the episodes were hacked about and put together into TV movies which have been shown quite often but I hate watching those! I enjoy watching both the Pete Duel episodes and the Roger Davis ones but I take a long break in between.
Seasons 2 and 3 have not been released in the UK on DVD so I had to get a US copy. I thoroughly recommend the book "Alias Smith & Jones: The Story of Two Pretty Good Bad Men" by Sandra K Sagala & JoAnne M Bagwell. It has plot summaries, cast lists, notes, bloopers etc for every episode as well as lots about the background of the show and the people involved.
Some of the things in the book that I found particularly interesting:
- When the show was cancelled, the BBC negotiated with Universal to pay the production costs to keep it being made as it was so popular in the UK, but it was way too expensive for the BBC.
- ABC put season 3 on in a doomed timeslot, on Saturday evenings. Roger Davis says, "Even my parents watched All in the Family [on CBS] first, and then tuned in to the last half hour of Smith and Jones."
I've been really enjoying watching this as I loved it as a 6 year old when it was first shown.....it's not disappointed me like many shows of it's age, as others on this thread have already said, it's better than a lot of things on mainstream tv nowadays.
I watched yesterdays and todays episodes with Roger Davis, but rather half heartedly tbh.....not his fault at all but he was no Pete Duel.
I watched yesterdays and todays episodes with Roger Davis, but rather half heartedly tbh.....not his fault at all but he was no Pete Duel.
It was so strange that they just dropped another actor into the part, with no explanation within the story. It must have been wierd for the rest of the cast and crew too, especially Ben Murphy.
I really liked Pete Duel in the show and it was as if his ghost was haunting the remaining episodes, it just wasn't the same after his death.
According to IMDb the first episode was shown on January 5th 1971!
Don't think I'd have seen it then as I'd only just turned three! It must have been shown mid 70s when I saw it. Strange to think Pete died four days after my fourth birthday
There was a scene in Davis' first episode called The Biggest Game in the West where Heyes has his top off whilst shaving. Watching now as a mature woman, I really wish that had been Pete!
Blazing Saddles (1974) more or less redefined the cowboy genre fot the TV and film industry.
Not Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid or The Wild Bunch (both 1969) then? They changed the whole Western myth (which was essentially invented by Hollywood).
I'd say Blazing Saddles was a satire on old style westerns more than anything new and ground breaking (wind breaking possibly ;-)).
=================================
I never took to this series at all. The plot device of the secret amnesty made no sense. Why was it offered? Why was it a secret (apart from to make sure the characters risked arrest if they were recognised)? The Virginian and High Chaparral were far better TV Westerns. Alias Smith and Jones seemed to revolve entirely around the appeal of the two stars to fans so the plot was secondary.
I never took to this series at all. The plot device of the secret amnesty made no sense. Why was it offered? Why was it a secret (apart from to make sure the characters risked arrest if they were recognised)? The Virginian and High Chaparral were far better TV Westerns. Alias Smith and Jones seemed to revolve entirely around the appeal of the two stars to fans so the plot was secondary.
The amnesty was a general offer to outlaws. It was taking a lot of effort tracking down all these outlaws, so it would be useful to offer them an amnesty, provided they weren't wanted for murder. The offer, written on a flyer, was given to Heyes and Curry by an old lady who was on a train that they were trying to rob, not very successfully! They asked their friend, outlaw turned sheriff, Lom Trevors to ask the governor for an amnesty on their behalf. It had to be secret because politically the governor would come under severe criticism if he just gave them an amnesty straight away. Once they had proven themselves it would be easier to grant it.
I admit the appeal of the show had a lot to do with the leads. I have posted many times over my attraction to Pete (!) but I thought the majority of the plots were good. Some which spring to mind as very good are The Bounty Hunter, The McGreedy Bust:Going, Going, Gone, and The Men That Corrupted Hadleyburg. The first was a story about racism, very well acted by all and guest star Lou Gossett Jnr. McCreedy was about a lapsed parson who had lost his faith and Heyes and Curry's different approaches to provocation, and Hadleyberg filled in some background on why Heyes and Curry became outlaws. There were often stories which involved moral dilemmas on the part of not just Heyes and Curry but other characters too.
As a lighter show than The Virginian or The High Chaparral I still think it produced good stories.
It's been brilliant to see this being re-run, the great thing is I remember the show and the 'feel' of it but not the plots so it hasn't felt like a repeat. Plus for me it's more about enjoying the telling of the story than the story itself, it's a really good example of how to get it right. When a show works as well as this one does, you don't care that different towns all seem to have exactly the same 'friendliest place in town' livery stable!
I can't remember when I first/last saw this, just that it was a long time ago, not even sure what country I was in at the time, and the rose-tinted spectacles of memory lane have for a change not painted the wrong picture.
Sorry if that all seems a bit overboard, just pleased not to be disappointed.
It was so strange that they just dropped another actor into the part, with no explanation within the story. It must have been wierd for the rest of the cast and crew too, especially Ben Murphy.
I've been away so only caught up with that episode lat night, and I was really confused by the opening-preview scene and it took me more that just a couple of moments to catch up.
I don't think Davis was really the right person to do that sort of drop-in replacement - he really came across as being too different and it was sufficiently jarring as to be a major obstacle to really enjoying the episode. (e2a: a criticism of the casting, not the actor)
We get used to a particular style, and just from this first episode it feels like Heyes is notably older than Curry, and comes across as being more 'refined' (not sure how else to put it) than seems quite right and (probably because I was still getting used to it) didn't seem quite so natural.
Plus when the sheriff is looking at the Wanted posters in that episode you can see the description of Heyes says 'dark brown hair' /nitpick
It's been brilliant to see this being re-run, the great thing is I remember the show and the 'feel' of it but not the plots so it hasn't felt like a repeat. Plus for me it's more about enjoying the telling of the story than the story itself, it's a really good example of how to get it right. When a show works as well as this one does, you don't care that different towns all seem to have exactly the same 'friendliest place in town' livery stable!
I can't remember when I first/last saw this, just that it was a long time ago, not even sure what country I was in at the time, and the rose-tinted spectacles of memory lane have for a change not painted the wrong picture.
Sorry if that all seems a bit overboard, just pleased not to be disappointed.
I've been away so only caught up with that episode lat night, and I was really confused by the opening-preview scene and it took me more that just a couple of moments to catch up.
I don't think Davis was really the right person to do that sort of drop-in replacement - he really came across as being too different and it was sufficiently jarring as to be a major obstacle to really enjoying the episode. (e2a: a criticism of the casting, not the actor)
We get used to a particular style, and just from this first episode it feels like Heyes is notably older than Curry, and comes across as being more 'refined' (not sure how else to put it) than seems quite right and (probably because I was still getting used to it) didn't seem quite so natural.
Plus when the sheriff is looking at the Wanted posters in that episode you can see the description of Heyes says 'dark brown hair' /nitpick
BIB. Yes, I noticed the same livery stables popping up too!
Regarding Davis, he wasn't a good match for Heyes as you say. He seemed too old, although just a year older than Duel. I intend to read the book "Alias Smith & Jones: The Story of Two Pretty Good Bad Men" so i'll find out more, but they probably didn't have a lot of choice. Finding an actor who would take over in such circumstances would have been difficult. Davis was available. Regarding appearance, as you say Davis didn't have dark brown hair as the Wanted poster said. Davis also was much stockier in build than Pete.
None of this is Davis' fault obviously but it makes the change jarring as you say. It certainty didn't help, from a suspension of disbelief point of view, that Davis had played a bad guy in the series just a few episodes earlier who
Comments
Hello Night Owl. Yes, they started with the Roger Davis episodes yesterday. There will be 4 more episodes left in Season 2 then 12 episodes in season 3. I was surprised how many there were of his when I checked.
Don't worry about missing the PD episodes, I'm sure that they will show them again, maybe straight away or after a short gap. They are worth catching, as the chemistry between Duel and Murphy was great.
I was 11 when the series aired and Pete was my first crush. As mentioned a few posts back, even now I find it very difficult to watch Davis as Heyes. Having Davis redo the opening titles complete with the amnesty scene with the "That's a good deal?" line that Pete did so well, didn't help me warm to him, although it wasn't his fault! It must have been difficult for him to take over.
That's funny.
Could've sworn we were up to date with the Sky Plus!
Smith & Jones could have gone on with 6 or 7 further seasons. Who knows what a movie career this would have lead to. His contemporaries at the time were actors such a Harrison Ford, who knows what Pete Duel would have been like as a charismatic Han Solo! in the 1977 Star Wars? Or other movies during the 80's ?
At least we have the glimmer from 1971 of what could have been.
Next time I watched it was being repeated while I was recuperating from an operation and off work.
So I've got both boxed sets on DVD (don't know if they are still available). It's interesting that the set of series 2 and 3 still show PD on the front cover and the credit alongside Ben Murphy. Davis gets a tiny mention on the back of the box with a caption to let you know that 'narrator Roger Davis took on the role of Hannibal Heyes following the untimely and unfortunate death of Pete Duel during the second season'.
Seasons 2 and 3 have not been released in the UK on DVD so I had to get a US copy. I thoroughly recommend the book "Alias Smith & Jones: The Story of Two Pretty Good Bad Men" by Sandra K Sagala & JoAnne M Bagwell. It has plot summaries, cast lists, notes, bloopers etc for every episode as well as lots about the background of the show and the people involved.
Some of the things in the book that I found particularly interesting:
- When the show was cancelled, the BBC negotiated with Universal to pay the production costs to keep it being made as it was so popular in the UK, but it was way too expensive for the BBC.
- ABC put season 3 on in a doomed timeslot, on Saturday evenings. Roger Davis says, "Even my parents watched All in the Family [on CBS] first, and then tuned in to the last half hour of Smith and Jones."
I Sky plus them too. I record the 5:55 / 6pm slot. A friend told me that the "On Demand' recording seemed to be not picking them all up.
According to IMDb the first episode was shown on January 5th 1971!
Yes, seems right to me as the show's stars were well known by the time the news broke of Pete Duel's death on New Year's Eve 1971.
Though I'm guessing that was never a starter if AS&J played any part in Pete's depression.
I watched yesterdays and todays episodes with Roger Davis, but rather half heartedly tbh.....not his fault at all but he was no Pete Duel.
http://www.peteduel.info/interview-with-roger-davis/
It was so strange that they just dropped another actor into the part, with no explanation within the story. It must have been wierd for the rest of the cast and crew too, especially Ben Murphy.
I really liked Pete Duel in the show and it was as if his ghost was haunting the remaining episodes, it just wasn't the same after his death.
Don't think I'd have seen it then as I'd only just turned three! It must have been shown mid 70s when I saw it. Strange to think Pete died four days after my fourth birthday
I'd say Blazing Saddles was a satire on old style westerns more than anything new and ground breaking (wind breaking possibly ;-)).
=================================
I never took to this series at all. The plot device of the secret amnesty made no sense. Why was it offered? Why was it a secret (apart from to make sure the characters risked arrest if they were recognised)? The Virginian and High Chaparral were far better TV Westerns. Alias Smith and Jones seemed to revolve entirely around the appeal of the two stars to fans so the plot was secondary.
The amnesty was a general offer to outlaws. It was taking a lot of effort tracking down all these outlaws, so it would be useful to offer them an amnesty, provided they weren't wanted for murder. The offer, written on a flyer, was given to Heyes and Curry by an old lady who was on a train that they were trying to rob, not very successfully! They asked their friend, outlaw turned sheriff, Lom Trevors to ask the governor for an amnesty on their behalf. It had to be secret because politically the governor would come under severe criticism if he just gave them an amnesty straight away. Once they had proven themselves it would be easier to grant it.
I admit the appeal of the show had a lot to do with the leads. I have posted many times over my attraction to Pete (!) but I thought the majority of the plots were good. Some which spring to mind as very good are The Bounty Hunter, The McGreedy Bust:Going, Going, Gone, and The Men That Corrupted Hadleyburg. The first was a story about racism, very well acted by all and guest star Lou Gossett Jnr. McCreedy was about a lapsed parson who had lost his faith and Heyes and Curry's different approaches to provocation, and Hadleyberg filled in some background on why Heyes and Curry became outlaws. There were often stories which involved moral dilemmas on the part of not just Heyes and Curry but other characters too.
As a lighter show than The Virginian or The High Chaparral I still think it produced good stories.
I can't remember when I first/last saw this, just that it was a long time ago, not even sure what country I was in at the time, and the rose-tinted spectacles of memory lane have for a change not painted the wrong picture.
Sorry if that all seems a bit overboard, just pleased not to be disappointed.
I've been away so only caught up with that episode lat night, and I was really confused by the opening-preview scene and it took me more that just a couple of moments to catch up.
I don't think Davis was really the right person to do that sort of drop-in replacement - he really came across as being too different and it was sufficiently jarring as to be a major obstacle to really enjoying the episode. (e2a: a criticism of the casting, not the actor)
We get used to a particular style, and just from this first episode it feels like Heyes is notably older than Curry, and comes across as being more 'refined' (not sure how else to put it) than seems quite right and (probably because I was still getting used to it) didn't seem quite so natural.
Plus when the sheriff is looking at the Wanted posters in that episode you can see the description of Heyes says 'dark brown hair' /nitpick
BIB. Yes, I noticed the same livery stables popping up too!
Regarding Davis, he wasn't a good match for Heyes as you say. He seemed too old, although just a year older than Duel. I intend to read the book "Alias Smith & Jones: The Story of Two Pretty Good Bad Men" so i'll find out more, but they probably didn't have a lot of choice. Finding an actor who would take over in such circumstances would have been difficult. Davis was available. Regarding appearance, as you say Davis didn't have dark brown hair as the Wanted poster said. Davis also was much stockier in build than Pete.
None of this is Davis' fault obviously but it makes the change jarring as you say. It certainty didn't help, from a suspension of disbelief point of view, that Davis had played a bad guy in the series just a few episodes earlier who