Not forgetting Bacofoil - if rules were imposed we would never have had the opportunity to enjoy the legend that is the Bacofoil showdance ;-)
Sorry to go off topic but I just watched this on You Tube and had to switch it off. It was horrendous!! Especially that bit where he rolls her up his body. Cringeworthy. The leotard was hideous too and I found my eyes drawn to her crotch!! My first and last time watching it!
Sorry to go off topic but I just watched this on You Tube and had to switch it off. It was horrendous!! Especially that bit where he rolls her up his body. Cringeworthy. The leotard was hideous too and I found my eyes drawn to her crotch!! My first and last time watching it!
Your 'experience' will not be complete without watching this version though .... :D:o:o
Showdances should be free for all. Trouble is the basic dances are all turning into show versions, so creating a show dance that looks & has a wow factor is increasingly difficult.
Sorry to go off topic but I just watched this on You Tube and had to switch it off. It was horrendous!! Especially that bit where he rolls her up his body. Cringeworthy. The leotard was hideous too and I found my eyes drawn to her crotch!! My first and last time watching it!
Showdances should be free for all. Trouble is the basic dances are all turning into show versions, so creating a show dance that looks & has a wow factor is increasingly difficult.
Showdances should be free for all. Trouble is the basic dances are all turning into show versions, so creating a show dance that looks & has a wow factor is increasingly difficult.
I don't know when it changed, but in the early series the Showdance was actually called 'freestyle'.
And if lifts were taken out the Showdance, then it would have left DVO and James looking a bit lost and embarrassed in the middle of the dance floor, because that was all their Showdance was.
I watched thatversion before the real one. My stomach hurt with laughing at the end.
A real 'spectacle' !!!! ...:o:o:D:D ... I only started watching the show intermittently from that year ... seriously hooked since series 8 with Matt Baker ... :D
I don't know when it changed, but in the early series the Showdance was actually called 'freestyle'.
And if lifts were taken out the Showdance, then it would have left DVO and James looking a bit lost and embarrassed in the middle of the dance floor, because that was all their Showdance was.
Ah! But if there were rules limited the lifts in show dances, then DVO and James wouldn't have come out with dances that were nearly all lifts.
Their "SCD strengths," if there is such a thing, surely include their ability to entertain an audience - after all, we are repeatedly told that this is an entertainment show, not a dance show!
Yes, but in SCD the entertainment should have to be done through Latin and / or Ballroom dance, not, say, ice skating, guitar solos, stand up comedy routines, cake baking, tap dancing, a cappella singing, standing amid long, waving streamers of cloth, acrobatics, and so on.
Did it?
Yes.
Please provide the clear and unequivocal evidence you must have in order to state that in as factual a manner as you have done.
Why should I, when no one else does?
It didn't make a blind bit of difference to me at all - I loved that dance for the pure theatricality of the whole thing and how clever Camilla was at integrating it all to create a real showpiece - everything a showdance should be, with an abundance of ballroom dancing therein (I really am bemused as to why you're continuing to use a dance with so much ballroom content as an example of how showdances should, in your opinion, not be, yet in the same post you're begging for ballroom content!)
It shouldn't be hard to understand. It's the tap element that I'd like eliminated; it's the part that's an example of what I don't think should be in show dances and that's an example of someone using dance skills they acquired before Strictly.
Anyway, I don't think "no rules" is the point of the showdance, and I don't think doing gymnastics for the showdance should be allowed either. The strengths the showdance showcases should be the strengths shown in the normal strictly Latin and Ballroom dances.
I never quite understand what people mean when they talk about Louis 'Gymnastic' based Showdance. There is LESS than 15 seconds of gymnastics right at the very beginning and only 2 lifts in the entire routine.... The rest of it is a rumba/AT fusion which surely are acceptable SCD genres.
I think people perhaps think there are more gymnastic moves than there actually is in this routine.
Yes, but in SCD the entertainment should have to be done through Latin and / or Ballroom dance, not, say, ice skating, guitar solos, stand up comedy routines, cake baking, tap dancing, a cappella singing, standing amid long, waving streamers of cloth, acrobatics, and so on.
Yes.
Why should I, when no one else does?
It shouldn't be hard to understand. It's the tap element that I'd like eliminated; it's the part that's an example of what I don't think should be in show dances and that's an example of someone using dance skills they acquired before Strictly.
Then really what it boils down to for you is no celebrities with any previous dance training whatsoever.
With limited training time all the professionals can do is work to the strengths of their celebrity partner, which for some includes tap, jazz, contemporary or disco etc. Anything else is foolish.
By your strict criteria only Frankie & Kevin would pass muster.
What about Simon jerking and body-popping, or Mark's aerobic endurance test? Of the 4 showdances this year, only one sort of complied with your suggested rules Veri, and yet it is only Caroline you have singled out to have a moan at.
O.k. so anything goes in the show dance but judgement values must include performance and dance content and ability
But
From at least quarters basic ballroom Latin to cut illegal lifts and gimmicks to allow judgement on ability and progress made
Performance is always available
When we have moved into two dance weeks one of those dances must demonstrate ability in technique learned and performed in ballroom/Latin and be minus clappy clappy crap
A major change should be within the rules judgement on technique and content where if existing judges lack the knowledge/experience to make those balanced judgements bring true dance judges in
When those simple guidelines existed SCD had it's biggest viewing figures
Then really what it boils down to for you is no celebrities with any previous dance training whatsoever.
With limited training time all the professionals can do is work to the strengths of their celebrity partner, which for some includes tap, jazz, contemporary or disco etc. Anything else is foolish.
By your strict criteria only Frankie & Kevin would pass muster.
The arguement could be made that Frankie and Kevin didn't put the big lifts in because that was the area Frankie freely admitted she struggled in. They weren't left out for any aesthetic reason. It actually played to her strengths to leave them out - which is what any pro wants for their celeb.
Showdances should be free for all. Trouble is the basic dances are all turning into show versions, so creating a show dance that looks & has a wow factor is increasingly difficult.
I would disagree with this. The showdances now are more important than they ever were, and have far more impact, partly because of the way the order of ceremonies of the finals has been changed (showdances earlier in the evening, all-week voting scrapped) but I think also because the pros are being far more creative with them than the dull liftathons of yore.. I distinctly remember in the wake of Tomzilla's showdance that the majority opinion was "well that's the only showdance I've ever liked". Since then we've had Jason, Louis, Natalie, Denise, and now Caroline produce showdances that have had a real demonstably strongly positive (in the main) fan response. Really it used to be people remembered mostly the showdances that went tits up (Colin, Lisa).
The arguement could be made that Frankie and Kevin didn't put the big lifts in because that was the area Frankie freely admitted she struggled in. They weren't left out for any aesthetic reason. It actually played to her strengths to leave them out - which is what any pro wants for their celeb.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what Kevin did, which is what any sensible pro would do! Absolutely nothing to do with ballroom/Latin content, but with showing their celeb off in the best possible light, especially after having to do their worst dance as judges' choice!
I never quite understand what people mean when they talk about Louis 'Gymnastic' based Showdance. There is LESS than 15 seconds of gymnastics right at the very beginning and only 2 lifts in the entire routine.... The rest of it is a rumba/AT fusion which surely are acceptable SCD genres.
I think people perhaps think there are more gymnastic moves than there actually is in this routine.
Tom & Camilla's showdance is exactly the same - about 15 seconds of tap and then the rest is pure ballroom and Latin. I'm not sure why the OP is making quite so much fuss about 15 seconds of a 90 second dance, upon which there is no conclusive evidence whatsoever that it made a jot of difference to the overall vote!
Yes, but in SCD the entertainment should have to be done through Latin and / or Ballroom dance, not, say, ice skating, guitar solos, stand up comedy routines, cake baking, tap dancing, a cappella singing, standing amid long, waving streamers of cloth, acrobatics, and so on.
Why should it - I hate props and backing dancers as much as the next person as I generally don't think they improve a dance (there are a couple of exceptions but not many), but often a celeb's additional skills can improve a dance, so why should they not do so when the whole point of the final is for them to show themselves off in the best possible light to win enough votes to get the glitterball. If that's not the point of the final, then what is?
Why should I, when no one else does?
Because no one else is repeatedly stating their opinions as fact...
If the show dance is to mean anything is has to allow anything really. We've seen plenty of waltzes and sambas by the time we've got to the final so seeing them again isn't going to tell us anything new. There would in fact be no point having a show dance at all.
As soon as anything is allowed in the show dance, just where is that content going to come from with just a few days training? It has to come from the previous experience of the celeb or the pro. It can't come from anywhere else if it is to suddenly become best dance of the Strictly year. The conclusion is that the public like show dances because they are something entertaining and different, and those show dances will inevitably draw on the past experience of the celebs or pros.
It was annoying when Tom Chambers tap-danced his way to victory, and now Caroline has done a "Tom Chambers" by using pre-Strictly dance skills to make a more impressive showdance.
Just as Tom used tap, Caroline used the dance skills she'd learned during her 3 years of training at the Bodywork Dance Studios. Theresa Kerr (who owns the Studios and taught Caroline) said Caroline's "show dance was exquisite. It was a real BodyWork dance, something that could have been choreographed here and it could only have been done by a trained dancer.. (Emphasis added) (Source: Cambridge News)
Since it seems this point can be "misunderstood" when I use a word such as "make" or "create", I do not mean she was solely responsible for the dance, or that she choreographed it -- though she may well have had a role in that process.
My point is that it was a type of dancing she had studied ("It was a real BodyWork dance") and, according to her own teacher, "it could only have been done by a trained dancer." She used her Bodywork skills in the dance. Indeed, Bodywork Company Dance Studios seems to be highlighting it for both those reasons: because it showcased her Bodywork training.
I think the showdances should have to be based on the skills they learned on Strictly and not be an opportunity for celebs with pre-strictly dance training to show it off. (I'd think the same if, for example, Pixie did a ballet routine for her showdance.)
Oh god just HOW many threads do you need to start to spout this utter bilge about Caroline again? Remind me again who you wanted to win and how far your dummy was spat across the room when they didn't?
I would disagree with this. The showdances now are more important than they ever were, and have far more impact, partly because of the way the order of ceremonies of the finals has been changed (showdances earlier in the evening, all-week voting scrapped) but I think also because the pros are being far more creative with them than the dull liftathons of yore.. I distinctly remember in the wake of Tomzilla's showdance that the majority opinion was "well that's the only showdance I've ever liked". Since then we've had Jason, Louis, Natalie, Denise, and now Caroline produce showdances that have had a real demonstably strongly positive (in the main) fan response. Really it used to be people remembered mostly the showdances that went tits up (Colin, Lisa).
Not sure what you are disagreeing with. The last few years have been a vast improvement on previous series (excluding the Tom & Camilla showdance), when the majority seemed to do either weightlifting to music or a variation on Dirty Dancing/Flashdance.
Oh god just HOW many threads do you need to start to spout this utter bilge about Caroline again? Remind me again who you wanted to win and how far your dummy was spat across the room when they didn't?
and you need to stop being rude to other posters just because they disagree with you.
I never quite understand what people mean when they talk about Louis 'Gymnastic' based Showdance. There is LESS than 15 seconds of gymnastics right at the very beginning and only 2 lifts in the entire routine.... The rest of it is a rumba/AT fusion which surely are acceptable SCD genres.
I think people perhaps think there are more gymnastic moves than there actually is in this routine.
Comments
Sorry to go off topic but I just watched this on You Tube and had to switch it off. It was horrendous!! Especially that bit where he rolls her up his body. Cringeworthy. The leotard was hideous too and I found my eyes drawn to her crotch!! My first and last time watching it!
Your 'experience' will not be complete without watching this version though ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAZ0nOmfWwY
How have you managed to avoid it for this long
Oh yes, the subtitled version is so much better
^^^^^^
I will give it a watch as I am always game for a laugh,
I didn't watch it back in the day. Sadly.
I don't know when it changed, but in the early series the Showdance was actually called 'freestyle'.
And if lifts were taken out the Showdance, then it would have left DVO and James looking a bit lost and embarrassed in the middle of the dance floor, because that was all their Showdance was.
I watched thatversion before the real one. My stomach hurt with laughing at the end.
A real 'spectacle' !!!! ...:o:o:D:D ... I only started watching the show intermittently from that year ... seriously hooked since series 8 with Matt Baker ...
Ah! But if there were rules limited the lifts in show dances, then DVO and James wouldn't have come out with dances that were nearly all lifts.
Yes, but in SCD the entertainment should have to be done through Latin and / or Ballroom dance, not, say, ice skating, guitar solos, stand up comedy routines, cake baking, tap dancing, a cappella singing, standing amid long, waving streamers of cloth, acrobatics, and so on.
Yes.
Why should I, when no one else does?
It shouldn't be hard to understand. It's the tap element that I'd like eliminated; it's the part that's an example of what I don't think should be in show dances and that's an example of someone using dance skills they acquired before Strictly.
I never quite understand what people mean when they talk about Louis 'Gymnastic' based Showdance. There is LESS than 15 seconds of gymnastics right at the very beginning and only 2 lifts in the entire routine.... The rest of it is a rumba/AT fusion which surely are acceptable SCD genres.
I think people perhaps think there are more gymnastic moves than there actually is in this routine.
http://youtu.be/xiWC8MS7JF0
Then really what it boils down to for you is no celebrities with any previous dance training whatsoever.
With limited training time all the professionals can do is work to the strengths of their celebrity partner, which for some includes tap, jazz, contemporary or disco etc. Anything else is foolish.
By your strict criteria only Frankie & Kevin would pass muster.
That's not very British
But
From at least quarters basic ballroom Latin to cut illegal lifts and gimmicks to allow judgement on ability and progress made
Performance is always available
When we have moved into two dance weeks one of those dances must demonstrate ability in technique learned and performed in ballroom/Latin and be minus clappy clappy crap
A major change should be within the rules judgement on technique and content where if existing judges lack the knowledge/experience to make those balanced judgements bring true dance judges in
When those simple guidelines existed SCD had it's biggest viewing figures
HAPPY NEW YEAR 🍸🍸🍺🍺
The arguement could be made that Frankie and Kevin didn't put the big lifts in because that was the area Frankie freely admitted she struggled in. They weren't left out for any aesthetic reason. It actually played to her strengths to leave them out - which is what any pro wants for their celeb.
I would disagree with this. The showdances now are more important than they ever were, and have far more impact, partly because of the way the order of ceremonies of the finals has been changed (showdances earlier in the evening, all-week voting scrapped) but I think also because the pros are being far more creative with them than the dull liftathons of yore.. I distinctly remember in the wake of Tomzilla's showdance that the majority opinion was "well that's the only showdance I've ever liked". Since then we've had Jason, Louis, Natalie, Denise, and now Caroline produce showdances that have had a real demonstably strongly positive (in the main) fan response. Really it used to be people remembered mostly the showdances that went tits up (Colin, Lisa).
I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what Kevin did, which is what any sensible pro would do! Absolutely nothing to do with ballroom/Latin content, but with showing their celeb off in the best possible light, especially after having to do their worst dance as judges' choice!
Tom & Camilla's showdance is exactly the same - about 15 seconds of tap and then the rest is pure ballroom and Latin. I'm not sure why the OP is making quite so much fuss about 15 seconds of a 90 second dance, upon which there is no conclusive evidence whatsoever that it made a jot of difference to the overall vote!
Why should it - I hate props and backing dancers as much as the next person as I generally don't think they improve a dance (there are a couple of exceptions but not many), but often a celeb's additional skills can improve a dance, so why should they not do so when the whole point of the final is for them to show themselves off in the best possible light to win enough votes to get the glitterball. If that's not the point of the final, then what is?
Because no one else is repeatedly stating their opinions as fact...
As soon as anything is allowed in the show dance, just where is that content going to come from with just a few days training? It has to come from the previous experience of the celeb or the pro. It can't come from anywhere else if it is to suddenly become best dance of the Strictly year. The conclusion is that the public like show dances because they are something entertaining and different, and those show dances will inevitably draw on the past experience of the celebs or pros.
Oh god just HOW many threads do you need to start to spout this utter bilge about Caroline again? Remind me again who you wanted to win and how far your dummy was spat across the room when they didn't?
Not sure what you are disagreeing with. The last few years have been a vast improvement on previous series (excluding the Tom & Camilla showdance), when the majority seemed to do either weightlifting to music or a variation on Dirty Dancing/Flashdance.
and you need to stop being rude to other posters just because they disagree with you.
Yeah even at the time Len said about the small element of gymnastics could be well overlooked because of the rumba and AT elements.
At the start of Caroline's show dance with all those wafty cloths I thought that it was going to be another Bacofoil!