And when the woman being mean to the dog tells you its none of your buisness better get off her property before her man gets back and slams the door what do you do next?
Our local dog warden is very good he sends enforcement notices and can take cases to court, if we had money like the RSPCA of course we could follow through and do similar but they suck up most of the cash. Dogs trust are quite rich too and we have had help from them a couple of times.
Well that would get you through the door at my vets treatment would be on top of it.
Good point I've never heard of a poor vet do you think they are charging to much money and making big profits at the expense of the animals.
You see most vets surgers and they are a lot fancier than a normal person health centre.
Also my friend had a German Shepard which had kidney problems. They spent thousands on an operation but the dog died any way. The dog got sick in the middle of the night. It cost £200 just to get the vet to open the door. Then the dog had to be put down and cremated. The vet charged £500 for an urn. Best bit was all of the dog didn't fit in the urn and the vet just gave them the rest in a shoe box.
Vets are pretty hartless a lot of the time and more interested in making money.
Good point I've never heard of a poor vet do you think they are charging to much money and making big profits at the expense of the animals.
You see most vets surgers and they are a lot fancier than a normal person health centre.
Also my friend had a German Shepard which had kidney problems. They spent thousands on an operation but the dog died any way. The dog got sick in the middle of the night. It cost £200 just to get the vet to open the door. Then the dog had to be put down and cremated. The vet charged £500 for an urn. Best bit was all of the dog didn't fit in the urn and the vet just gave them the rest in a shoe box.
Vets are pretty hartless a lot of the time and more interested in making money.
I would happily say medications are too expensive and I have witnessed vets who seem more caring of the money than the animals but I won't say that is all or even most vets. I think we have a responsibility to seek out vets who are good and ignore the money grabbers. I drive past 2 surgeries to get to the one I use because I believe he cares more for my dogs than the money. His charges reflect rental of his surgery, running costs, wages for himself and his 3 nurses, over night cover from another company, receptionist etc I think he charges fairly for all that. What makes me gasp occasionally is cost of medication and usually it's not that much cheaper on line for what we have had.
I think that is a problem with the NHS too so it's the huge medication manufacturers I blame really.
I may not have been home but I never once said the house was empty!
My mum and dad were both home! My dad was even washing the car on the front garden!!!
Take no notice Mary it's an old trick, try and discredit a person when you lose an argument. I think most of us understood without it being pointed out.
I think that is a problem with the NHS too so it's the huge medication manufacturers I blame really.
I have experience in the NHS. Drugs that are used a lot and are not in patent are very cheap, reflective of the cost of buying drugs over the counter.
Drug companies literally spend millions researching and testing new drugs. Some of those drugs never get to the point of being trialled on actual people. In my career I have worked in areas where drug trials are in progress and have seen the amount of work that goes on - and that's at the point when we're trialling them on actual patients. Some of these drugs would not be used very often because they are only needed for the very sick minority. For example, our most powerful antibiotics are restricted to the very sick in order to preserve their effectiveness and minimise bacterial mutation and 'resistance' which is going to become a real problem for the next generation.
The drug companies need to recoup their costs before the patent expires so they charge huge sums of money. It's really not worthwhile for drug companies to develop drugs that will make a loss, although that sometimes happens and they make up for the loss by charging extra for more commonly prescribed drugs. That is why, up to now, not much effort or money was spent developing a vaccine or treatments for Ebola. It was so rare that a drug company would never recoup what it spent on developing a drug to treat it.
I'm not saying that drug companies don't make huge profits but explaining why some drugs are so costly. In the NHS most drugs do come down in price once they start being used in greater volumes. Not all drug companies make money - the drug company that was involved in the infamous drug trial ''that went wrong'', in a London hospital a few years ago, went out of business and many others have down-scaled as their most lucrative drug patencies expire.
As for animal drug costs, I presume it's the same situation. The cost of drugs itemised on my bills for my cats generally is in line with what would be charged for humans (cost price, not prescription price). Some of the drugs are even the same as used for humans, eg ace inhibitors and duiretics. I notice there is not a problem currently with antibiotic resistance in cats - I wonder if this will be an issue in the future as more cats get better veterinary access?
As for the RSPCA, I hear a lot of bad things about them but I still believe they do some good too and we're better in this country having them than not having them. Some people definitely do need to be prosecuted and even imprisoned for their ill treatment of animals, once the case is proven. I'd rather have an over zealous officer than an under zealous one who has no interest in the welfare of animals the public make them aware of, many examples from different posters in this thread.
I don't doubt it costs to make drugs however it's my opinion the good of man and animal kind should come above profit and money. Not a popular view sadly as we all carry on the same with poor not getting drugs because they are too expensive and people getting rich off others illnesses.
I don't doubt it costs to make drugs however it's my opinion the good of man and animal kind should come above profit and money. Not a popular view sadly as we all carry on the same with poor not getting drugs because they are too expensive and people getting rich off others illnesses.
That's the whole point of the NHS - everyone gets treated the same regardless of how much they earn. I have looked after the famous ''rich'' and the homeless and they all benefit from the exact same level of care (in the NHS wards anyway) and have the same access to the most expensive drugs should their condition warrant it. The Conservatives have been undermining the NHS since they were elected and would like nothing better than to scrap it (but know it would be political suicide). I don't believe the NHS will last out my lifetime.
Drug companies don't exist for the greater good of humanity, they are businesses who need to make profits. That's how businesses operate, they also need to pay their staff and their overheads. I'm sure the scientists and researchers who work for drug companies do so in the hope of improving the lot of human and animal kind - but they still need to be paid! It's rather naive to suggest otherwise, that they should all work for the greater good of mankind without being fairly rewarded.
I know but the poor still suffer because the rich can access health care those relying on NHS can't but I was thinking more globally, we in the west access the drugs those in less wealthy countries still die of diseases we easily cure. But this is the pets forum so we are off topic slightly, to bring it back to pets, people have to give up their animals or have them PTS everyday because they can't afford drugs for their animals.
I know but the poor still suffer because the rich can access health care those relying on NHS can't but I was thinking more globally, we in the west access the drugs those in less wealthy countries still die of diseases we easily cure. But this is the pets forum so we are off topic slightly, to bring it back to pets, people have to give up their animals or have them PTS everyday because they can't afford drugs for their animals.
There will always the well-off and less well-off in any society. Those 'relying' on the NHS get a pretty good deal. I'd rather be treated in an NHS hospital than a private one (and I've worked in both). The NHS is safer, stricter protocols in place, better access to emergency care and much more up to date, albeit without the 'comforts' of private care.
There is a global divide but the UK isn't financially responsible for problems outside of the UK.
As for people who can't afford the healthcare their pets require, even though I am a Labour voter with 'socialist' leanings, I hold the view that if you can't afford to look after your pet, in sickness and in health, then you shouldn't have that particular pet. It's obviously different for people who have unexpectedly fallen on hard times, lost their job or become ill etc. I wouldn't want them to give up their much loved pet, taken on when times were better.
I work hard for my salary and I don't believe my taxes should pay for unemployed or low earners to have the 'luxury' of expensive pet ownership. If you want something in life you need to work for it, whether that be to work to educate yourself to achieve a better paid job or work longer hours. If I need something which I can't afford within my income, I work an extra shift (or many extra shifts during my holiday).
You must work somewhere pretty good to afford some of the treatment prices these days many of us have to make decisions about health care and money. And your little rant about unemployed reveals how much you care for animals and people really.
You must work somewhere pretty good to afford some of the treatment prices these days many of us have to make decisions about health care and money. And your little rant about unemployed reveals how much you care for animals and people really.
I believe you know what my job is as I have mentioned it a few times - hardly well paid but I have worked hard and, yes, I make sure I can afford to keep my 3 cats. As you also know (as it has come up many times), I have them insured so I don't need to worry too much about ''treatment prices''. Vets need to make profits, pay rents, pay their staff, pay themselves, just like any other 'business'. You seem to want people to work for no profit at all. Why spend 6 years at vet school (a more demanding course than even medicine) to work for a 'basic' wage, for the good of society? These are highly trained, highly educated people who deserve their high salaries, in my opinion.
The harder you work early in life, at school, university and subsequently, the higher the reward. As for my so called 'rant' against the unemployed , what's wrong with saying that taxes shouldn't fund unnecessary luxuries? Surely those taxes should be paying for basic living expenses?
You infer I don't care about people just because I said people should be able to afford what they take on? I'm just a sensible, rational pragmatist. I believe it was you who once said on this forum that you didn't care much for people, not me.
As this has become quite a personal argument and completely off topic, I'm staying away from this thread now, although I stand by what I have said.
As for people who can't afford the healthcare their pets require, even though I am a Labour voter with 'socialist' leanings, I hold the view that if you can't afford to look after your pet, in sickness and in health, then you shouldn't have that particular pet. It's obviously different for people who have unexpectedly fallen on hard times, lost their job or become ill etc. I wouldn't want them to give up their much loved pet, taken on when times were better.
I work hard for my salary and I don't believe my taxes should pay for unemployed or low earners to have the 'luxury' of expensive pet ownership. If you want something in life you need to work for it, whether that be to work to educate yourself to achieve a better paid job or work longer hours. If I need something which I can't afford within my income, I work an extra shift (or many extra shifts during my holiday).
That's utter cobblers.
There are very few people who could afford to pay the costs associated with any kind of "worst case scenario" involving their pet.
A guy I work with has 3 alsatians and one of them recently developed intestinal problems.
So far, the treatment has cost him upwards of £12,000 (for 3 operations) and, although the dog is recovering, it will, apparently, cost more to buy food for the dog, in future, than my colleague spends on himself and it's also going to cost around £1,000 a year for the medication the dog will require for the rest of his life.
A few "extra shifts" aren't even going to scratch the surface of expenses like that, unless you're a merchant banker or a high-class call-girl.
As pet owners, we're all constantly living with the spectre of either paying enormous sums of money for medical treatment of the prospect of making heartbreaking decisions and only a moron would fail to realise that.
There are very few people who could afford to pay the costs associated with any kind of "worst case scenario" involving their pet.
A guy I work with has 3 alsatians and one of them recently developed intestinal problems.
So far, the treatment has cost him upwards of £12,000 (for 3 operations) and, although the dog is recovering, it will, apparently, cost more to buy food for the dog, in future, than my colleague spends on himself and it's also going to cost around £1,000 a year for the medication the dog will require for the rest of his life.
A few "extra shifts" aren't even going to scratch the surface of expenses like that, unless you're a merchant banker or a high-class call-girl.
As pet owners, we're all constantly living with the spectre of either paying enormous sums of money for medical treatment of the prospect of making heartbreaking decisions and only a moron would fail to realise that.
Exactly ! We spend more on dog food as we have a special dietary need dog than we do for our own food, but if she needed thousands of pounds instantly for treatment sadly we would have to say good bye to her, no amount of extra shifts would pay for it and in answer to MK I said at the start I appreciate we have to pay for the staff and premises and consider the amount to examine and diagnose well worth the money. It drugs that I think are far too expensive.
Not so much 'personal vendetta' but 'emotional upset'. I would feel the same.
Emotiinally upset still years after the cat has died?
Had this just happened I may be able to sympathise with her, but it hasn't.
Come on. Complaining about the RSPCA but since no one was at home she has no way of knowing how the cat was found, it could have suffered the 'trauma' prior to the RSPCA finding the cat. The streets in Middlesbrough (depending on the actual part of Middlesbrough) aren't going to the greatest place for an old and easily distressed elderly cat.
I have personally saw the very fast detereation of our cat, who was fine one days and then not the next, when he had a massive siezure in front of us, I know it is distressing to lose a pet (after having 2 dogs and 5 cats throughout my life, none of which are alive now) but going on a crusade about an elderly cat dying does not help you get over it.
I don't think there is any time limit on distress but I would guess this is the last in a line of going down the RSPCAs complaints procedures if it were just a vendetta the petition would have been started instantly not years later.
Emotiinally upset still years after the cat has died?
Had this just happened I may be able to sympathise with her, but it hasn't.
Come on. Complaining about the RSPCA but since no one was at home she has no way of knowing how the cat was found, it could have suffered the 'trauma' prior to the RSPCA finding the cat. The streets in Middlesbrough (depending on the actual part of Middlesbrough) aren't going to the greatest place for an old and easily distressed elderly cat.
I have personally saw the very fast detereation of our cat, who was fine one days and then not the next, when he had a massive siezure in front of us, I know it is distressing to lose a pet (after having 2 dogs and 5 cats throughout my life, none of which are alive now) but going on a crusade about an elderly cat dying does not help you get over it.
First of all, we tried to ask the RSPCA for answers the moment after this happened, but they refused to answer our questions and threatened us, so I decided to make my story public so that other people would understand what they have done and encourage them to answer me properly.
Secondly, Middlesbrough has some very nice areas. Please don't be so judgemental to comment on the area I am from. We live on the edges of Middlesbrough in a beautiful cul-de-sac and the streets are very safe if I do say so myself. My mum and dad were in the house, they didn't even bother to knock on the door or ring the number on Sophies collar.
Lastly, my cat was looking healthy before they had taken her. I understand they can take a sudden turn, however I find it hard to believe that in-between the hours of 2pm and 3pm when she had just been running through the house she had rolled over in the garden for the RSPCA to be called and them take her. Also if that had happened, all they had to do was knock on the door and let us know so we could do something.
Comments
That is not true I have seen plenty of programs which the RSPCA that deal with that exact subject matter.
People need to be informed that breading to many cats and dogs and then not caring for them inevitable causes this to become necessary.
If this is so simple, why can't the RSPCA do it? All they had to do was knock on my door.
Exactly it is just that simple.
I thought you weren't in at the time?
Good point I've never heard of a poor vet do you think they are charging to much money and making big profits at the expense of the animals.
You see most vets surgers and they are a lot fancier than a normal person health centre.
Also my friend had a German Shepard which had kidney problems. They spent thousands on an operation but the dog died any way. The dog got sick in the middle of the night. It cost £200 just to get the vet to open the door. Then the dog had to be put down and cremated. The vet charged £500 for an urn. Best bit was all of the dog didn't fit in the urn and the vet just gave them the rest in a shoe box.
Vets are pretty hartless a lot of the time and more interested in making money.
I would happily say medications are too expensive and I have witnessed vets who seem more caring of the money than the animals but I won't say that is all or even most vets. I think we have a responsibility to seek out vets who are good and ignore the money grabbers. I drive past 2 surgeries to get to the one I use because I believe he cares more for my dogs than the money. His charges reflect rental of his surgery, running costs, wages for himself and his 3 nurses, over night cover from another company, receptionist etc I think he charges fairly for all that. What makes me gasp occasionally is cost of medication and usually it's not that much cheaper on line for what we have had.
I think that is a problem with the NHS too so it's the huge medication manufacturers I blame really.
I may not have been home but I never once said the house was empty!
My mum and dad were both home! My dad was even washing the car on the front garden!!!
Take no notice Mary it's an old trick, try and discredit a person when you lose an argument. I think most of us understood without it being pointed out.
I have experience in the NHS. Drugs that are used a lot and are not in patent are very cheap, reflective of the cost of buying drugs over the counter.
Drug companies literally spend millions researching and testing new drugs. Some of those drugs never get to the point of being trialled on actual people. In my career I have worked in areas where drug trials are in progress and have seen the amount of work that goes on - and that's at the point when we're trialling them on actual patients. Some of these drugs would not be used very often because they are only needed for the very sick minority. For example, our most powerful antibiotics are restricted to the very sick in order to preserve their effectiveness and minimise bacterial mutation and 'resistance' which is going to become a real problem for the next generation.
The drug companies need to recoup their costs before the patent expires so they charge huge sums of money. It's really not worthwhile for drug companies to develop drugs that will make a loss, although that sometimes happens and they make up for the loss by charging extra for more commonly prescribed drugs. That is why, up to now, not much effort or money was spent developing a vaccine or treatments for Ebola. It was so rare that a drug company would never recoup what it spent on developing a drug to treat it.
I'm not saying that drug companies don't make huge profits but explaining why some drugs are so costly. In the NHS most drugs do come down in price once they start being used in greater volumes. Not all drug companies make money - the drug company that was involved in the infamous drug trial ''that went wrong'', in a London hospital a few years ago, went out of business and many others have down-scaled as their most lucrative drug patencies expire.
As for animal drug costs, I presume it's the same situation. The cost of drugs itemised on my bills for my cats generally is in line with what would be charged for humans (cost price, not prescription price). Some of the drugs are even the same as used for humans, eg ace inhibitors and duiretics. I notice there is not a problem currently with antibiotic resistance in cats - I wonder if this will be an issue in the future as more cats get better veterinary access?
As for the RSPCA, I hear a lot of bad things about them but I still believe they do some good too and we're better in this country having them than not having them. Some people definitely do need to be prosecuted and even imprisoned for their ill treatment of animals, once the case is proven. I'd rather have an over zealous officer than an under zealous one who has no interest in the welfare of animals the public make them aware of, many examples from different posters in this thread.
That's the whole point of the NHS - everyone gets treated the same regardless of how much they earn. I have looked after the famous ''rich'' and the homeless and they all benefit from the exact same level of care (in the NHS wards anyway) and have the same access to the most expensive drugs should their condition warrant it. The Conservatives have been undermining the NHS since they were elected and would like nothing better than to scrap it (but know it would be political suicide). I don't believe the NHS will last out my lifetime.
Drug companies don't exist for the greater good of humanity, they are businesses who need to make profits. That's how businesses operate, they also need to pay their staff and their overheads. I'm sure the scientists and researchers who work for drug companies do so in the hope of improving the lot of human and animal kind - but they still need to be paid! It's rather naive to suggest otherwise, that they should all work for the greater good of mankind without being fairly rewarded.
There will always the well-off and less well-off in any society. Those 'relying' on the NHS get a pretty good deal. I'd rather be treated in an NHS hospital than a private one (and I've worked in both). The NHS is safer, stricter protocols in place, better access to emergency care and much more up to date, albeit without the 'comforts' of private care.
There is a global divide but the UK isn't financially responsible for problems outside of the UK.
As for people who can't afford the healthcare their pets require, even though I am a Labour voter with 'socialist' leanings, I hold the view that if you can't afford to look after your pet, in sickness and in health, then you shouldn't have that particular pet. It's obviously different for people who have unexpectedly fallen on hard times, lost their job or become ill etc. I wouldn't want them to give up their much loved pet, taken on when times were better.
I work hard for my salary and I don't believe my taxes should pay for unemployed or low earners to have the 'luxury' of expensive pet ownership. If you want something in life you need to work for it, whether that be to work to educate yourself to achieve a better paid job or work longer hours. If I need something which I can't afford within my income, I work an extra shift (or many extra shifts during my holiday).
I believe you know what my job is as I have mentioned it a few times - hardly well paid
The harder you work early in life, at school, university and subsequently, the higher the reward. As for my so called 'rant' against the unemployed
You infer I don't care about people just because I said people should be able to afford what they take on? I'm just a sensible, rational pragmatist. I believe it was you who once said on this forum that you didn't care much for people, not me.
As this has become quite a personal argument and completely off topic, I'm staying away from this thread now, although I stand by what I have said.
That's utter cobblers.
There are very few people who could afford to pay the costs associated with any kind of "worst case scenario" involving their pet.
A guy I work with has 3 alsatians and one of them recently developed intestinal problems.
So far, the treatment has cost him upwards of £12,000 (for 3 operations) and, although the dog is recovering, it will, apparently, cost more to buy food for the dog, in future, than my colleague spends on himself and it's also going to cost around £1,000 a year for the medication the dog will require for the rest of his life.
A few "extra shifts" aren't even going to scratch the surface of expenses like that, unless you're a merchant banker or a high-class call-girl.
As pet owners, we're all constantly living with the spectre of either paying enormous sums of money for medical treatment of the prospect of making heartbreaking decisions and only a moron would fail to realise that.
Really sounded like someone who was very distressed at bad treatment from a large organisation to me.
Had this just happened I may be able to sympathise with her, but it hasn't.
Come on. Complaining about the RSPCA but since no one was at home she has no way of knowing how the cat was found, it could have suffered the 'trauma' prior to the RSPCA finding the cat. The streets in Middlesbrough (depending on the actual part of Middlesbrough) aren't going to the greatest place for an old and easily distressed elderly cat.
I have personally saw the very fast detereation of our cat, who was fine one days and then not the next, when he had a massive siezure in front of us, I know it is distressing to lose a pet (after having 2 dogs and 5 cats throughout my life, none of which are alive now) but going on a crusade about an elderly cat dying does not help you get over it.
First of all, we tried to ask the RSPCA for answers the moment after this happened, but they refused to answer our questions and threatened us, so I decided to make my story public so that other people would understand what they have done and encourage them to answer me properly.
Secondly, Middlesbrough has some very nice areas. Please don't be so judgemental to comment on the area I am from. We live on the edges of Middlesbrough in a beautiful cul-de-sac and the streets are very safe if I do say so myself. My mum and dad were in the house, they didn't even bother to knock on the door or ring the number on Sophies collar.
Lastly, my cat was looking healthy before they had taken her. I understand they can take a sudden turn, however I find it hard to believe that in-between the hours of 2pm and 3pm when she had just been running through the house she had rolled over in the garden for the RSPCA to be called and them take her. Also if that had happened, all they had to do was knock on the door and let us know so we could do something.