I'll tell you about the real world: It's near a million uses of food banks in the last year alone, a 50% increase. It's a masses of people being exploited on zero hour contracts, it's record numbers of people forced into part time work because they can't find full time.
People aren't buying this economic miracle crap and rightly so, because it's exactly that, crap.
The first food bank in Europe was allegedly set up in France in 1984. In the UK the Trussell Trust launced the UK Food Bank Network In 2004 teaching churches and communities nationwide how to start their own food bank as a result of discovering a mother in Salisbury being unable to feed her children. The idea caught on and has grown significantly ever since, and especially since the recession took hold in 2008. There has been much heightened awareness and media coverage of food banks in recent years and I believe they've become a tool for the Left to use against the Coalition government.
In reality it's more about educating people on low incomes to make their money go further by being economical and less wasteful, which has been the way of life in the increasingly consumerist society we've lived in for more than 50 years.
Rationing after World War Two continued until the mid-1950s and perhaps if people were reminded more of how families then lived it might go a long way to alleviating the hunger that food bank users experience.
This is from the Trussell Trust website and is a far more useful message than just giving hand outs:
"The Trussell Trust has piloted, and is currently looking for funding to roll out, 'Eat Well, Spend Less' courses that teach people how to cook when on a low budget. The course includes basic cookery lessons as well as providing advice on food budgeting, hygiene and nutrition. If you or your company could help to fund this project we'd love to hear from you."
I'll tell you about the real world: It's near a million uses of food banks in the last year alone, a 50% increase. It's a masses of people being exploited on zero hour contracts, it's record numbers of people forced into part time work because they can't find full time.
People aren't buying this economic miracle crap and rightly so, because it's exactly that, crap.
Welcome to the EU policy of creating a low wage economy so that we can compete with BRIC whose countries also have low wage economies with fewer workers' rights and are emerging into successful developed nations just as the UK did in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Can't imagine for the life of me why, A, he's the only one they dare name, and B, he should feel a 'tad' bitter about not being elected to the shadow cabinet,
So basically we have a story in right-wing paper with a track record of attacking Labour for just about anything, and everything, including attacking the dead father of the party leader, and implying that a senior member supported kiddy fiddlers,
making up another non story claiming, without backing it up with a shred of evidence,
(because most journalists know that using "sources said" in any article means "we are making it up but you can't prove that we are, and we haven't quoted anyone so you can't sue us either")
that "senior Labour MPs" have said the things that the right wing Labour hating paper with a despicable record, is claiming they have said, and the ONLY 'evidence' they provide to back up this claim is a quote from an EX Labour minister a man who hasn't been a minister for almost 10 years and who failed to get elected to the shadow cabinet,
it IS however, an excellent exercise to show just how willingly some people are to believe any old garbage provided it tells them what they want to hear, no matter which 'team' they support,
The trouble is when you look into this pay rise properly it seems there's not as much to celebrate as the DM would have us believe .
" If you strip out bonuses from the calculation, average earnings rose over the period by only 1.4% and THAT is less than the rate of inflation. Most people, therefore, are still being squeezed."
Well yuh. If you fiddle the figures, adding or subtracting this & that until they say what you want, it stands to reason they'll, err, say what you want.
The given figures are the average figures taking everything into account, not selectively removing The Evil Rich.
Well yuh. If you fiddle the figures, adding or subtracting this & that until they say what you want, it stands to reason they'll, err, say what you want.
Yes well I think you will find that this government is just as good at fiddling figures as anyone else ;-)
The given figures are the average figures taking everything into account, not selectively removing The Evil Rich.
I'm not sure where "The Evil Rich" as you call them come into the equation unless of course you are under the misconception that it is only rich people who get bonuses.
Well yuh. If you fiddle the figures, adding or subtracting this & that until they say what you want, it stands to reason they'll, err, say what you want.
The given figures are the average figures taking everything into account, not selectively removing The Evil Rich.
Exactly. That's what the government does, but some people don't like the numbers questioning.
But Cameron has presided over the recent rejuvenation of the economy, which Miliband and Balls have criticised every step of the way, and have had to change track every 6 months because of it.
But Cameron has presided over the recent rejuvenation of the economy, which Miliband and Balls have criticised every step of the way, and have had to change track every 6 months because of it.
No they haven't, it's the same as ever. The recovery isn't felt by most people so this guff about rejuvenation is meaningless to the majority. Not to mention that everyone can agree it's an unbalanced and unsustainable recovery and there's really not much to celebrate why that is the case.
No they haven't, it's the same as ever. The recovery isn't felt by most people so this guff about rejuvenation is meaningless to the majority.
The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
Not to mention that everyone can agree it's an unbalanced and unsustainable recovery and there's really not much to celebrate why that is the case.
"Everyone can agree" is not the same as "I wish everyone would agree with me", however much you might wish it did. Happily, only a minority agree with a handful of hard line lefties. May it ever be thus.
The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
What else do the 'collective whole' feel if you have that insight?
"Everyone can agree" is not the same as "I wish everyone would agree with me", however much you might wish it did. Happily, only a minority agree with a handful of hard line lefties. May it ever be thus.
The Telegraph and other right wing papers think so, that's why I said it. Isn't it obvious when it is built on household consumption?
"Of course the lucky who get bonuses are going to think it's great, but they are in the minority"
.....that you are referring to ?
yes it's that comment.
as i understand it you are reading from: The figure of 1.7% for the average rise in earnings includes bonuses. But 40% of bonuses are paid to only 4% of workers (and we know where most of them live). So most workers are getting a much less good deal. If you strip out bonuses from the calculation, average earnings rose over the period by only 1.4% and THAT is less than the rate of inflation. Most people, therefore, are still being squeezed.
that people with bonuses are doing better than people without. it does not imply that at all.
What else do the 'collective whole' feel if you have that insight?
I guess in the event that we know people are on average better off you do not need to read the minds of people to say: The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
I guess in the event that we know people are on average better off you do not need to read the minds of people to say: The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
it is just a restatement of the fact.
The problem is that the recovery is uneven and millions of people are not seeing any signs of it. If you haven't had a decent pay rise in years, if you have seen your benefits cut or your rent is rising faster than income then any upturn has passed you by. That's why people don't accept the Tories are doing a good job.
The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all.
Wow - you are very perceptive. Strong hints on the Today programme this morning that David Axelrod will be pushing for Cost of Living Crisis to become Unequality Crisis. I hope this development is as "meaningful" as you have predicted.
The problem is that the recovery is uneven and millions of people are not seeing any signs of it. If you haven't had a decent pay rise in years, if you have seen your benefits cut or your rent is rising faster than income then any upturn has passed you by. That's why people don't accept the Tories are doing a good job.
I'm not sure i follow the logic.
if you are on benefits then the upturn is certainly passing you by and you should probably vote labour. unless you want to get a job.
I think 'people' do think the tories are doing a good job. all the polling indicates that.
but your logic seems broken. if the recovery is uneven then some people would be doing better and some stay the same or worse. but the numbers tell us that more people are doing better than worse. so why would 'people' not think the tories are not doing a good job. if people make this decision purely from their own personal perspective then necessarily more people would think the tories were doing a good job than not.
But in reality i think there is a tendency to blame the government for the bad and attribute the good to yourself. for example if you loose your job in a recession then you will blame that on the government. if in the upturn there are a million new jobs created and you get one you do not attribute that to the government but your own hard work.
in a sense politically this government would have been better off not creating jobs, but focusing on the wages of people in work. it would have removed labour's single line of attack a long time ago. but it would not have been as good for the economy.
Wow - you are very perceptive. Strong hints on the Today programme this morning that David Axelrod will be pushing for Cost of Living Crisis to become Unequality Crisis. I hope this development is as "meaningful" as you have predicted.
So "unequality crisis" means that Labour wants unequality for all and at the moment not everyone is unequal?
Welcome to the EU policy of creating a low wage economy so that we can compete with BRIC whose countries also have low wage economies with fewer workers' rights and are emerging into successful developed nations just as the UK did in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Jol seems to ignore how we had mass uncontrolled immigration in Labours years which meant people were coming in large numbers from eastern europe and would work for a lot less than the people currently here......this ultimately has helped drag wages down and helped create the squeeze on incomes.....not only that they set up businesses.....roofing, tiling etc which would charge a lot less to people so it didnt help those in self employment......people need to look beyond the Labour spin and see who really did start this crisis off both economically with the crash and the Labour market which had seen the biggest influx in such a short space of time during Labours years....
if you are on benefits then the upturn is certainly passing you by and you should probably vote labour. unless you want to get a job.
I think 'people' do think the tories are doing a good job. all the polling indicates that.
but your logic seems broken. if the recovery is uneven then some people would be doing better and some stay the same or worse. but the numbers tell us that more people are doing better than worse. so why would 'people' not think the tories are not doing a good job. if people make this decision purely from their own personal perspective then necessarily more people would think the tories were doing a good job than not.
But in reality i think there is a tendency to blame the government for the bad and attribute the good to yourself. for example if you loose your job in a recession then you will blame that on the government. if in the upturn there are a million new jobs created and you get one you do not attribute that to the government but your own hard work.
in a sense politically this government would have been better off not creating jobs, but focusing on the wages of people in work. it would have removed labour's single line of attack a long time ago. but it would not have been as good for the economy.
Do they? What numbers? Are you saying the majority of people are better off now than they were four years ago?
But Cameron has presided over the recent rejuvenation of the economy, which Miliband and Balls have criticised every step of the way, and have had to change track every 6 months because of it.
Labour have always believed in spend spend spend.....Council tax rose every year under Labour....its been largely frozen for the last four years.....they employed a million more public sector workers (which as well as wages...pensions have to be paid for)....threw 15billion on a failed nhs computer system down the drain.....started an illegal war in Iraq which cost around 40billion.....allowed unchecked numbers of eastern europeans in....in such a short space of time....helping to lower wages and put so much pressure on our public services and housing.....allowed housing benefit to get out of control......Labour dont know any other way and if people want that again it leaves me speechless.....
Comments
Perhaps they will articulate them closer to the election
The first food bank in Europe was allegedly set up in France in 1984. In the UK the Trussell Trust launced the UK Food Bank Network In 2004 teaching churches and communities nationwide how to start their own food bank as a result of discovering a mother in Salisbury being unable to feed her children. The idea caught on and has grown significantly ever since, and especially since the recession took hold in 2008. There has been much heightened awareness and media coverage of food banks in recent years and I believe they've become a tool for the Left to use against the Coalition government.
In reality it's more about educating people on low incomes to make their money go further by being economical and less wasteful, which has been the way of life in the increasingly consumerist society we've lived in for more than 50 years.
Rationing after World War Two continued until the mid-1950s and perhaps if people were reminded more of how families then lived it might go a long way to alleviating the hunger that food bank users experience.
This is from the Trussell Trust website and is a far more useful message than just giving hand outs:
http://www.trusselltrust.org/foodbank-projects
"The Trussell Trust has piloted, and is currently looking for funding to roll out, 'Eat Well, Spend Less' courses that teach people how to cook when on a low budget. The course includes basic cookery lessons as well as providing advice on food budgeting, hygiene and nutrition. If you or your company could help to fund this project we'd love to hear from you."
Welcome to the EU policy of creating a low wage economy so that we can compete with BRIC whose countries also have low wage economies with fewer workers' rights and are emerging into successful developed nations just as the UK did in the 18th and 19th centuries.
You said it.
Oooh get you and the "I'm above all this" routine:D
Well yuh. If you fiddle the figures, adding or subtracting this & that until they say what you want, it stands to reason they'll, err, say what you want.
The given figures are the average figures taking everything into account, not selectively removing The Evil Rich.
Yes well I think you will find that this government is just as good at fiddling figures as anyone else ;-)
I'm not sure where "The Evil Rich" as you call them come into the equation unless of course you are under the misconception that it is only rich people who get bonuses.
Exactly. That's what the government does, but some people don't like the numbers questioning.
Not really.
Is it this comment....
"Of course the lucky who get bonuses are going to think it's great, but they are in the minority"
.....that you are referring to ?
I'll think you'll find it's that case that no one understands what Ed Miliband is saying, even he doesn't understand what he's saying.
He's making more sense than cuckoo Cameron.
But Cameron has presided over the recent rejuvenation of the economy, which Miliband and Balls have criticised every step of the way, and have had to change track every 6 months because of it.
No they haven't, it's the same as ever. The recovery isn't felt by most people so this guff about rejuvenation is meaningless to the majority. Not to mention that everyone can agree it's an unbalanced and unsustainable recovery and there's really not much to celebrate why that is the case.
The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
"Everyone can agree" is not the same as "I wish everyone would agree with me", however much you might wish it did. Happily, only a minority agree with a handful of hard line lefties. May it ever be thus.
What else do the 'collective whole' feel if you have that insight?
The Telegraph and other right wing papers think so, that's why I said it. Isn't it obvious when it is built on household consumption?
yes it's that comment.
as i understand it you are reading from:
The figure of 1.7% for the average rise in earnings includes bonuses. But 40% of bonuses are paid to only 4% of workers (and we know where most of them live). So most workers are getting a much less good deal. If you strip out bonuses from the calculation, average earnings rose over the period by only 1.4% and THAT is less than the rate of inflation. Most people, therefore, are still being squeezed.
that people with bonuses are doing better than people without. it does not imply that at all.
The collective whole feels the recovery. It's "meaningful" to the totality, not the majority. There as those who feel it more, those who don't feel it at all. It all washes out into a recovery.
it is just a restatement of the fact.
The problem is that the recovery is uneven and millions of people are not seeing any signs of it. If you haven't had a decent pay rise in years, if you have seen your benefits cut or your rent is rising faster than income then any upturn has passed you by. That's why people don't accept the Tories are doing a good job.
Wow - you are very perceptive. Strong hints on the Today programme this morning that David Axelrod will be pushing for Cost of Living Crisis to become Unequality Crisis. I hope this development is as "meaningful" as you have predicted.
I'm not sure i follow the logic.
if you are on benefits then the upturn is certainly passing you by and you should probably vote labour. unless you want to get a job.
I think 'people' do think the tories are doing a good job. all the polling indicates that.
but your logic seems broken. if the recovery is uneven then some people would be doing better and some stay the same or worse. but the numbers tell us that more people are doing better than worse. so why would 'people' not think the tories are not doing a good job. if people make this decision purely from their own personal perspective then necessarily more people would think the tories were doing a good job than not.
But in reality i think there is a tendency to blame the government for the bad and attribute the good to yourself. for example if you loose your job in a recession then you will blame that on the government. if in the upturn there are a million new jobs created and you get one you do not attribute that to the government but your own hard work.
in a sense politically this government would have been better off not creating jobs, but focusing on the wages of people in work. it would have removed labour's single line of attack a long time ago. but it would not have been as good for the economy.
So "unequality crisis" means that Labour wants unequality for all and at the moment not everyone is unequal?
Jol seems to ignore how we had mass uncontrolled immigration in Labours years which meant people were coming in large numbers from eastern europe and would work for a lot less than the people currently here......this ultimately has helped drag wages down and helped create the squeeze on incomes.....not only that they set up businesses.....roofing, tiling etc which would charge a lot less to people so it didnt help those in self employment......people need to look beyond the Labour spin and see who really did start this crisis off both economically with the crash and the Labour market which had seen the biggest influx in such a short space of time during Labours years....
Do they? What numbers? Are you saying the majority of people are better off now than they were four years ago?
Labour have always believed in spend spend spend.....Council tax rose every year under Labour....its been largely frozen for the last four years.....they employed a million more public sector workers (which as well as wages...pensions have to be paid for)....threw 15billion on a failed nhs computer system down the drain.....started an illegal war in Iraq which cost around 40billion.....allowed unchecked numbers of eastern europeans in....in such a short space of time....helping to lower wages and put so much pressure on our public services and housing.....allowed housing benefit to get out of control......Labour dont know any other way and if people want that again it leaves me speechless.....