The People's Assembly : A Left-Wing movement for the UK

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  • nottinghamcnottinghamc Posts: 11,929
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    Left wingers have been urging him to form a new real left political party on Twitter, but he wants to form a peoples assembly instead.

    The problem with the left forming new parties is essentially who forms them. Usually they just end up being a bunch of fairly well of socialists in London forming something with 'people' in the title, churning out some press releases that please other well off London socialists then putting absolutely no effort into forming an actual party with widepsread public support. It then turns on itself with various members claiming they can lead a true 'peoples party' and stomping off to do just that. Respect, which had some actual momentum in London, is completely dead now because of its internal splits and Galloways VAST ego.
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    The problem with the left forming new parties is essentially who forms them. Usually they just end up being a bunch of fairly well of socialists in London forming something with 'people' in the title, churning out some press releases that please other well off London socialists then putting absolutely no effort into forming an actual party with widepsread public support. It then turns on itself with various members claiming they can lead a true 'peoples party' and stomping off to do just that. Respect, which had some actual momentum in London, is completely dead now because of its internal splits and Galloways VAST ego.

    Isn't that the present Labour party?:confused:
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Why has the politics section here become such a rightist circle-jerk? Anything left of Thatcher is described as if it's a far-left communist movement and anyone who is against austerity is made out to be a scrounger.

    People actually think that the present day Labour party are socialists? What comedy delusion.
  • nottinghamcnottinghamc Posts: 11,929
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Why has the politics section here become such a rightist circle-jerk? Anything left of Thatcher is described as if it's a far-left communist movement and anyone who is against austerity is made out to be a scrounger.

    People actually think that the present day Labour party are socialists? What comedy delusion.

    Are they? Can you put any post here that has called any party left of Thatcher is communist? Or are you just using hyperbole to have a go at people because you can't be bothered to actually read what they've put and come up with a coherent argument back?
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Are they? Can you put any post here that has called any party left of Thatcher is communist? Or are you just using hyperbole to have a go at people because you can't be bothered to actually read what they've put and come up with a coherent argument back?

    Well Labour have been called socialist when they really are no such thing. It has been claimed that Jones is far-left and we've also had the claim that any left wing movement equals a call of 'give us free stuff.' Rather than enter any sort of political debate, it's the same old slurs without substance.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Why has the politics section here become such a rightist circle-jerk? Anything left of Thatcher is described as if it's a far-left communist movement and anyone who is against austerity is made out to be a scrounger.

    People actually think that the present day Labour party are socialists? What comedy delusion.

    Ed Miliband describes himself as a socialist. Could it possibly be that it's you that's comically deluded?
  • nottinghamcnottinghamc Posts: 11,929
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Well Labour have been called socialist when they really are no such thing. It has been claimed that Jones is far-left and we've also had the claim that any left wing movement equals a call of 'give us free stuff.' Rather than enter any sort of political debate, it's the same old slurs without substance.

    Owen Jones is left wing, even his article calling for the peoples assembly calls it left wing, don't see anyone mentioning them as being communist or that they msut be far left wing because their left of Thatcher (could be their being called elft wing because, surprise surprise, THEY CALL THEMSELVES IT). You complain about other people using slurs when your one and ONLY post in the entire thread is basically a whiny insult against everyone who's posted something and a sweeping statement which bears no resemblance to anything anyone's posted.
  • grassmarketgrassmarket Posts: 33,010
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    FMKK wrote: »

    People actually think that the present day Labour party are socialists? What comedy delusion.

    We have no doubt that they are socialists but their socialism is veiled by incompetence.
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Owen Jones is left wing, even his article calling for the peoples assembly calls it left wing, don't see anyone mentioning them as being communist or that they msut be far left wing because their left of Thatcher (could be their being called elft wing because, surprise surprise, THEY CALL THEMSELVES IT). You complain about other people using slurs when your one and ONLY post in the entire thread is basically a whiny insult against everyone who's posted something and a sweeping statement which bears no resemblance to anything anyone's posted.

    Yeag, he's left wing. Obviously. But why is that conflated with far-left? Are you telling me that people haven't called him far-left?
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Ed Miliband describes himself as a socialist. Could it possibly be that it's you that's comically deluded?

    Name some socialist policies advocated by the Labour party.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Name some socialist policies advocated by the Labour party.

    :D

    The Labour Party have some policies?

    I'm not going to get into a spurious debate with you about what qualifies as socialism. I've simply pointed out that the Leader of Labour Party sees himself as a socialist. You presumably don't. I suggest you write to him - not me - explaining why. I'm sure he'll be interested to hear your views.
  • EraserheadEraserhead Posts: 22,016
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    Well I suppose we need a left wing antidote to the very right wing UKIP and I'd rather throw my support around the likes of Owen Jones and Mark Steel than Obergruppenfuhrer Farage.
  • FMKKFMKK Posts: 32,074
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    Eraserhead wrote: »
    Well I suppose we need a left wing antidote to the very right wing UKIP and I'd rather throw my support around the likes of Owen Jones and Mark Steel than Obergruppenfuhrer Farage.

    Exactly. What's wrong with broadening the spectrum a bit? The current three parties seem to simply clamber for the centre to get elected. See how the Conservatives for example try to adopt the populist UKIP stuff in an attempt to sway their supporters.
  • rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Exactly. What's wrong with broadening the spectrum a bit? The current three parties seem to simply clamber for the centre to get elected. See how the Conservatives for example try to adopt the populist UKIP stuff in an attempt to sway their supporters.

    Nothing wrong with broadening the spectrum if what they come out with is credible - and therein lies the problem.
  • anndra_wanndra_w Posts: 6,557
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    David Tee wrote: »
    :D

    The Labour Party have some policies?

    I'm not going to get into a spurious debate with you about what qualifies as socialism. I've simply pointed out that the Leader of Labour Party sees himself as a socialist. You presumably don't. I suggest you write to him - not me - explaining why. I'm sure he'll be interested to hear your views.

    Blair once described himself as a socialist. Labour leaders still need to give at least a nod to the values and people they once represented. Whatever the Labour party believed in or stood for at once time is dead now. It's over.
  • solenoidsolenoid Posts: 15,495
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    I just had a "People's Movement" and I would recommend not using the toilet for ten minutes.
  • LostFoolLostFool Posts: 90,623
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Exactly. What's wrong with broadening the spectrum a bit? The current three parties seem to simply clamber for the centre to get elected. See how the Conservatives for example try to adopt the populist UKIP stuff in an attempt to sway their supporters.

    There probably is room on the left of Labour as a anti-EU, anti-NATO, anti-immigration, pro-nationalisation, high tax and spending party but they would be deluded if they think that it would be anything other than a protest party.
  • grassmarketgrassmarket Posts: 33,010
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    FMKK wrote: »
    Name some socialist policies advocated by the Labour party.

    Massive personal enrichment and lives of luxury for Mandelson, Blair, Brown and now Milliband. There's nothing more socialist than that.
  • anndra_wanndra_w Posts: 6,557
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    Massive personal enrichment and lives of luxury for Mandelson, Blair, Brown and now Milliband. There's nothing more socialist than that.

    That sounds like the protection of vested interests which is what the main parties in the UK are all about.
  • GibsonSGGibsonSG Posts: 23,681
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Ed Miliband describes himself as a socialist. Could it possibly be that it's you that's comically deluded?

    Ed Milliband can call himself what he likes he is still presiding over what has essentialy become a party slightly right of centre.
  • David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    GibsonSG wrote: »
    Ed Milliband can call himself what he likes he is still presiding over what has essentialy become a party slightly right of centre.

    Sorry - I disagree. I think the closest Labour ever came to centrist politics was between 1997 and 2000. Since then, with the expansion of the the public sector, the growth of welfare and immigration, the party gradually headed back to being more centre-centre-left.

    However, since 2010, and purely on the basis of Labour's responses to the action of the Coalition, the party is arguing from a position that is definitely further left than where they were pre election and it's certainly as far left as they have been since 1992. Whether they maintain that approach in 2015 remains to be seen. I suspect they won't.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17
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    i like that dude.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17
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    I'll go if there's one in Glasgow.
  • anndra_wanndra_w Posts: 6,557
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Sorry - I disagree. I think the closest Labour ever came to centrist politics was between 1997 and 2000. Since then, with the expansion of the the public sector, the growth of welfare and immigration, the party gradually headed back to being more centre-centre-left.

    However, since 2010, and purely on the basis of Labour's responses to the action of the Coalition, the party is arguing from a position that is definitely further left than where they were pre election and it's certainly as far left as they have been since 1992. Whether they maintain that approach in 2015 remains to be seen. I suspect they won't.

    I'd say from 1997-2001 was the time when Labour were doing somethings that were progressive and could be described as slightly centre left however after that point there was a move further to the right.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    Sounds good.
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