You have the right to your point of view, I have the right to disagree with it and challenge it, in turn you have the right to challenge me, as you have done here.
Neither of us has been silenced, but we have both been challenged.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Sure, but you aren't (I hope?) calling me a racist.
It would be easier not to say anything, than to make a joke and then be vilified whilst having to defend your position. In some people's eyes you would always be racist, no matter what you say. careers can and have been ruined because of such accusations.
This is why people feel they can't say things freely. Now obviously if you come out with something stupid like "I hate all such and such people" then there is no excuse. However if Ron gets labelled racist (incorrectly, if anything it would be islamaphobe) for this joke, then that is a pretty sad thing, IMO.
Sure, but you aren't (I hope?) calling me a racist.
It would be easier not to say anything, than to make a joke and then be vilified whilst having to defend your position. In some people's eyes you would always be racist, no matter what you say. careers can and have been ruined because of such accusations.
This is why people feel they can't say things freely. Now obviously if you come out with something stupid like "I hate all such and such people" then there is no excuse. However if Ron gets labelled racist (incorrectly, if anything it would be islamaphobe) for this joke, then that is a pretty sad thing, IMO.
I may have the wrong end of the stick about this discussion , but from what I can see it is behaviour that is being discussed, specifically the use of language, and how it might, by some, be construed (or misconstrued if your opinion fits that idea).
I certainly have not labelled any individual as anything in any comment I have made, though of course I have my views on things they are documented as having said. As of course do others.
So it is ok to make racist/sexist/homophobic etc jokes in a program, which people laugh at, purely because you believe that everyone is laughing at the people that are doing the stereotyping?
No, because (for the second time) the jokes in South Park aren't racist/sexist/homophobic, they're satires of racist/sexist/homophobic jokes/attitudes. Just like a drama depicting racism isn't actually racist. Please tell me this is getting through.
Ron using the N word was wrong. Ron making a joke about Muslims concealing bombs is based on a stereotype. You might not find it funny, but in no way was it any more offensive than telling an Irish joke - although you probably find them racist or xenophobic.
Context is important. If you have a Muslim/Irish friend that you jokingly call a 'terrorist piece of crap' and he's fine with that, great. But that wasn't the case with Ron. That said, I don't see calling a Muslim/Irish a terrorist as less offensive than calling a black person a n*gger. Calling a black person a n*gger is also based on a stereotype: that black people are part of an inferior race. Both are despicable slurs. The belief that any group should get special treatment is extremely patronising, it's as if to say, 'We can make the joke with the Irish, because they get it, but don't make those jokes with the Blacks or Muslims, you know how touchy they can be'. This is political correctness, presuming to say who it is and isn't okay to take the piss out of.
If people attack others personally, then it is wrong. If they make a generalisation about a group of people, then, depending on the context, it is most likely not to be taken serious. Unless you believe that Ron really thinks all Muslims hide bombs under their clothes?
Stereotypes are based on and feed prejudice. A kid who grows up hearing jokes about Muslims being terrorists will naturally make the association.
I'm glad people get offended so easily, makes them easy to avoid.
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Nice attempt at wit, but I don't think the writers of South Park will be in contact any time soon.
No, because (for the second time) the jokes in South Park aren't racist/sexist/homophobic, they're satires of racist/sexist/homophobic jokes/attitudes. Just like a drama depicting racism isn't actually racist. Please tell me this is getting through.
Context is important. If you have a Muslim/Irish friend that you jokingly call a 'terrorist piece of crap' and he's fine with that, great. But that wasn't the case with Ron. That said, I don't see calling a Muslim/Irish a terrorist as less offensive than calling a black person a n*gger. Calling a black person a n*gger is also based on a stereotype: that black people are part of an inferior race. Both are despicable slurs. The belief that any group should get special treatment is extremely patronising, it's as if to say, 'We can make the joke with the Irish, because they get it, but don't make those jokes with the Blacks or Muslims, you know how touchy they can be'. This is political correctness, presuming to say who it is and isn't okay to take the piss out of.
Stereotypes are based on and feed prejudice. A kid who grows up hearing jokes about Muslims being terrorists will naturally make the association.
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Nice attempt at wit, but I don't think the writers of South Park will be in contact any time soon.
I understand what South Park is going for, just as i understand that racism depicted in Drama's is not real. However, you are making the connection that South Park is a satire, whereas it equally COULD be seen as not being Satire. South Park HAS received complaints, therefore people DO see it as offensive, whether it SHOULD be or not. please tell me this is getting through????
You using someone calling someone a Terrorist piece of crap is telling, since clearly you equate telling a joke with actually insulting someone intentially by calling them a derogatory name.
**Edited out for me being dumb**
I also believe that you can take the p#ss out of any group of people.
A kid seeing the news showing muslims that are terrorists will make the same associations, shall we ban that aswell?
How does my last sentence not make sense? Those that are offended easily will show this trait pretty quickly, which is a good thing because then i can not associate with them. If they didn't show this trait quickly, I could form a bond with them that would be more difficult to break. I guess that makes no sense to you? and yet you try and come accross as so superior. funny.
I understand what South Park is going for, just as i understand that racism depicted in Drama's is not real. However, you are making the connection that South Park is a satire, whereas it equally COULD be seen as not being Satire. South Park HAS received complaints, therefore people DO see it as offensive, whether it SHOULD be or not. please tell me this is getting through????
Oh yeah, it's getting through alright. Because some idiots don't get South Park, this means that, just maybe, that some idiots don't get Ron! Am I right? Am I right??? Is Ron really a satirical mastermind, having laughs at the expense of the racist fools who take his shtick at face value and PC ninnies who just aren't savvy enough to get it? I think I get it now.
In case I'm not correct in my assumption, please be explicit.
You using someone calling someone a Terrorist piece of crap is telling, since clearly you equate telling a joke with actually insulting someone intentially by calling them a derogatory name.
Just telling 'em like Uncle Ron does.
Saying the N word is a stereoptype is like saying the word fat is a stereotype, it isn't.
You'd have to explain that one.
A kid seeing the news showing muslims that are terrorists will make the same associations, shall we ban that aswell?
Or maybe they'll learn that some people who identify as Muslims are terrorists. How about let's just teach the kid some history and allow him to have an informed opinion, rather than, 'Uhhh, Muslims are terrorists! LOLZ!'
How does my last sentence not make sense? Those that are offended easily will show this trait pretty quickly
Because of the presumption that firstly, you're correct in identifying the easily offended and secondly, they would automatically show the trait.
Well, if the joke was about an Irish person using tipex on a computer screen, for example. This is stereotyping that Irish people are unintelligent, I would say that is not offensive, but I am damn sure someone would get offended.
Calling people names, spitting on them etc is clearly not a joke. It is an argumentative fallacy to link the two together.
It is all in the intent, as far as I am concerned.
Well maybe if you're Irish then you may well have the right to say that it's not offensive ; but you would only be speaking for yourself as one Irish person and not for all Irish people; however if your not Irish,who are you to say what is and what isn't offensive to the Irish. And I think that"the Irish are thick" stereotyping is only unique to Britain/England.
Comments
Sure, but you aren't (I hope?) calling me a racist.
It would be easier not to say anything, than to make a joke and then be vilified whilst having to defend your position. In some people's eyes you would always be racist, no matter what you say. careers can and have been ruined because of such accusations.
This is why people feel they can't say things freely. Now obviously if you come out with something stupid like "I hate all such and such people" then there is no excuse. However if Ron gets labelled racist (incorrectly, if anything it would be islamaphobe) for this joke, then that is a pretty sad thing, IMO.
I may have the wrong end of the stick about this discussion , but from what I can see it is behaviour that is being discussed, specifically the use of language, and how it might, by some, be construed (or misconstrued if your opinion fits that idea).
I certainly have not labelled any individual as anything in any comment I have made, though of course I have my views on things they are documented as having said. As of course do others.
I understand what South Park is going for, just as i understand that racism depicted in Drama's is not real. However, you are making the connection that South Park is a satire, whereas it equally COULD be seen as not being Satire. South Park HAS received complaints, therefore people DO see it as offensive, whether it SHOULD be or not. please tell me this is getting through????
You using someone calling someone a Terrorist piece of crap is telling, since clearly you equate telling a joke with actually insulting someone intentially by calling them a derogatory name.
**Edited out for me being dumb**
I also believe that you can take the p#ss out of any group of people.
A kid seeing the news showing muslims that are terrorists will make the same associations, shall we ban that aswell?
How does my last sentence not make sense? Those that are offended easily will show this trait pretty quickly, which is a good thing because then i can not associate with them. If they didn't show this trait quickly, I could form a bond with them that would be more difficult to break. I guess that makes no sense to you? and yet you try and come accross as so superior. funny.
In case I'm not correct in my assumption, please be explicit. Just telling 'em like Uncle Ron does. You'd have to explain that one. Or maybe they'll learn that some people who identify as Muslims are terrorists. How about let's just teach the kid some history and allow him to have an informed opinion, rather than, 'Uhhh, Muslims are terrorists! LOLZ!' Because of the presumption that firstly, you're correct in identifying the easily offended and secondly, they would automatically show the trait.
Well maybe if you're Irish then you may well have the right to say that it's not offensive ; but you would only be speaking for yourself as one Irish person and not for all Irish people; however if your not Irish,who are you to say what is and what isn't offensive to the Irish. And I think that"the Irish are thick" stereotyping is only unique to Britain/England.