Up until recently, I trained people to use Microsoft software.
You're right, nobody likes change initially. However, after working with something for a reasonable time you should begin to pick it up and learn why the changes have been made, the logic behind them, and the advantages.
My experience with Windows 8 has been the same as many others - very frustrating. I honestly think that with a few minor tweaks it could have been much easier to use. I also agree with the view that the Start screen/button should have been customisable. Every version of Windows before 8 allowed you to change the layout of the Start menu; why not this one?
With the departure of Steven Sinofsky from Microsoft, maybe there will be a 'sanity check' in the Windows team and they will make some changes.
I put windows 8 on the main laptop a few weeks back. The trouble with it is the back and forth between metro and desktop. It does a lot of annoying things that limit productivity. Some stuff looks silly on a large screen and space is wasted on metro apps. The desktop side is great, better than windows 7 but the metro and charms overlay is just not needed.
You have to do a lot of setting up and customising to get it working. For example most apps on the taskbar, and start menu to get to them quick etc. In the past most used program's were listed on the start menu where you could quickly get to them without blanking off the rest of the screen. Now you enter a whole different layout along with the pulls and pushes and drag downs etc.
A good video to watch on youtube is the "windows 8 it's almost not terrible"
MS should have grown balls and gone down the route of a totally new OS for tablets and desktops. ,not Windows mish mash on both.
The point is... that many people DO like to use the start button/menu system, especially on desktops, and find it more efficient than using the W8 start screen, even after getting used to the latter.
These people should be given the choice as an official option - which harms nobody who doesn't use start buttons and helps those who do, a lot. And that's just what MS did with W95, because its user interface was so different from previous versions - they gave users the choice of which to use. By not doing so now, when all the necessary guts are present and correct under the bonnet, they are just being annoyingly bean-countingly pig-headed, which is irritating to many. I hope their bean-counters are now suffering a similar ignominy as the previous Head of Windows development did.
Stick to 7 and stop stressing yourself over such a trivial thing as the start button is probably the best for you. Or use the faster 8 and add the start button app if its vital to the smooth operation of your computer use.
Stick to 7 and stop stressing yourself over such a trivial thing as the start button is probably the best for you. Or use the faster 8 and add the start button app if its vital to the smooth operation of your computer use.
^^ This
.... or learn to use the new OS as per the vision of the designers
If you really need something to vent your anger/frustration at then I suggest Apple
Or use the faster 8 and add the start button app if its vital to the smooth operation of your computer use.
I did that months ago. But you didn't read my post fully, did you. The independent start button/menu applications are unsupported and could be rendered useless by Microsoft at any time: therein lies the problem.
Did she pay for it using some finance package or credit or something? I'd definitely buy one if I won the Lotto Only trouble is I don't know where I'd put it. The iMac looks lovely but for true power and upgradability you can't beat the Mac Pro tower :cool: Now all I have to do is pick the right lottery numbers...
She got a loan to pay for it, also got the machine cheaper as she could get some tax back as it is for her businses. Not sure if I would buy one if I won the lottery. the machine is certainly powerful, rendering video on final cut is so fast and every thing is so fluid and quick. Never been able to get the same feel on a windows PC, even with a I7 and top end video card.
You're making the all too common mistake of thinking that any change is automatically an improvement. The public reaction to Windows 8 proves that a significant proportion of people don't think that its UI changes are for the better.
It's a very similar scenario to New Coke.
Agree, a mate of mine uses Cool Edit pro, which is a multi track audio recorder, it was taken over by Adobe a few years and back and renamed Audition and all sort of so called enhancements made. Now I am not a musician, so to me Cool Edit pro and Audition look almost the same, but according to my mate, cool Edit pro is far better as Audition have lost some features and it does not do some things as good as CEP. As he said, sometimes new is not always better. This is why he still uses Cool edit pro
It was an option during installation... and was fully available and officially supported after installation. Progman.exe.
Back then, MS applied a bit more commonsense than today, it seems.
I don't remember it ever being an option during installation. I have to admit it has been a little while since I last installed Windows 95, but I remember having to configure Program Manager for people who just wouldn't deal with the new interface.
Perhaps that's down to the fact that most people got Windows 95 preinstalled on new PCs (because you were a fool if you tried to run it on some old 486 with 8MB of RAM!), but it was definitely not an easy option to find or enable for the average person, even if it was there. It also didn't really look or act entirely the same as it did under Windows 3.1. Programs just piled up at the bottom of the screen like they were minimized, rather than appearing to be icons.
It seems to have escaped your notice that most who are criticising Metro and its implementation for PCs have praised the rest of Windows 8, but that is getting lost in the mist - a mist created by a lack of foresight by Microsoft's bean counters and their former head of Windows development. Which is a pity: there is much that is good about W8 under the bonnet and I will continue to use it, with Classic Shell - but I do have concerns about future O/S support for such independent add-ons, as will all large Companies who consider using them.
It hasn't escaped my notice because I disagree with your assertion that most who criticise metro like the rest of Windows 8. That is true in some cases (I know it is true in yours), but I wouldn't go so far to say it is true in most. There is enough out there (on both sides of the fence) that treat metro as the be-all and end-all of Windows 8.
But you actually prove me point more than I did, here. There are LOTS of differing opinions on Windows 8. Some love all of it. Some love the idea of it, but feel the implementation needs refinement. Some love the under-the-hood improvements, but hate the new UI. Some hate everything about it.
There are lots of opinions floating around about Windows 8 and there is no solid foundation to assume one of these is the opinion that most of the population hold. There is no solid evidence to support anything, as everyone seems to be able to twist the small number of available statistics to mean whatever they want to present.
None of that actually proves that a significant number of people dislike the UI change. There are other reasons that could fit that data, other than it having to be because everyone hates the UI.
The last one is also nothing more than rumour (as were the supposed figures that Microsoft apparently ordered for the Surface as well).#
Essentially, this all comes down to confirmation bias Yes, that will include me as much as anyone else, before anyone brings it up - but I'm aware of that and trying to not let it influence my judgment. Which is why my opinion is that it is too early to tell what the general consensus is. Anyone who thinks they can pull a few articles off the internet and use that as proof of what the overall population think is clearly showing confirmation bias.
You can just as easily twist it the other way to show it is a huge success, too. Microsoft sold more upgrade licenses of Windows 8 than Apple sold iPhone 5s in the same period, for example. Everyone might not like Windows 8, but everyone might not like the iPhone, either. Microsoft 40 million copies sold to date might include OEM licenses that haven't been sold on to end-users. Apple's iPhone figures might include sales to carriers and not to end-users.
Microsoft flopped when they only sold 180 million copies of Windows Vista in three years. Apple was a massive success when they sold 100 million iPads in two-and-a-half years.
Some of those Vista licenses might actually have been Windows XP downgrades, so don't count as Vista sales, even though Microsoft still profits off them.
Some of those iPad sales will have been people upgrading from earlier iPads, so don't count as marketshare increases, but it doesn't matter Apple still profits off them.
Windows 8 has been out for a month. None of us actually have enough information to make wild assertions about what the public at large think of it. Any evidence provided to date can be twisted or explained in positive or negative ways.
There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics - and that was before we had the internet to allow the propagation of this in such an outrageous fashion.
She got a loan to pay for it, also got the machine cheaper as she could get some tax back as it is for her businses. Not sure if I would buy one if I won the lottery. the machine is certainly powerful, rendering video on final cut is so fast and every thing is so fluid and quick. Never been able to get the same feel on a windows PC, even with a I7 and top end video card.
I hope she didn't go to Ocean Finance! Well I'd better check my lottery tickets because if I win that jackpot, then the Apple Store is calling I'll be down there fast!
I hope she didn't go to Ocean Finance! Well I'd better check my lottery tickets because if I win that jackpot, then the Apple Store is calling I'll be down there fast!
No, she went to her bank and got a good deal to be honest. It be paid for around March, she was going to pay it off quicker, but it would cost her more as she had such a good deal on the loan.
i don't have to check my lottery tickets, i never used to bother doing the lottery, but I do one line on a saturday and I do it online, so if I win, they will let me know.
We got a Store here that sells Apple stuff, we popped in a week ago to see what it was like, lots of people in there, but I bet not many was buying. I will give it 12 months.
What we need is a store that sells other technology stuff, something like PC world, but better.
Right i got windows 8 back on my machine, for some reason the image I made did not work, the computer kept resetting, so I got windows 8 to do a refresh, a bit annoying as now I have to reinstall all my software.
Just found out that windows 8 have a safe mode, but it is hidden, it could have saved me a bit of time.
Anyway, someone said something in one of these forums about their network adaptor giving problems, so I thought I would have another look. the software for my Adaptor did not come from the supplier of the wireless adaptor as they did not produced one.
Anyway, I found out yesterday that they now got a beta version of one, so i am trying that at the moment and so far the machine is not freezing, but I have not got much on it.
I'm not, I'm criticising a large not-so-consumer friendly multinational over some bean-counter policy. That isn't stressful.
It isn't trivial, it (and the underlying menu system) was the main user interface of a major operating system.
I did that months ago. But you didn't read my post fully, did you. The independent start button/menu applications are unsupported and could be rendered useless by Microsoft at any time: therein lies the problem.
Your not stressed about it lol so microsoft would stop a third party application,,,,, spoil sports :rolleyes: We know you don't like it so no need for you to keep going on about it really and better for your blood pressure by the looks of it.
ha, ha, sorted, I think.
i decided to once again try with the acronis image I made of windows 8, after recovering the image back to my drive, the computer still came up with a blue screen of death, Ms will never get rid of that label now . Anyway, F8 got me into the repair section and from there, in the advance part and in there is safe mode. I got into safe mode, got rid of the old network driver, put the beta one in and reboot.
Now one working windows 8 with all the software I installed before I made the image still in place. so I will install so more later on when I get back from work and make another image.
No freezing either at the moment, so it looks like it was the network drivers after all. thanks to who ever said about that, even if it did take a few days to sink into my head
Also thinks to TP-link for producing the right drivers, even if they are only beta at the moment.
Your not stressed about it lol so microsoft would stop a third party application,,,,, spoil sports :rolleyes: We know you don't like it so no need for you to keep going on about it really and better for your blood pressure by the looks of it.
you never know, if MS don't like us by passing the start screen they may find a way of stopping third party software doing that. the problem is it be a losing battle, because MS will find one way of stopping them and the third party will find another way.
Your not stressed about it lol so microsoft would stop a third party application,,,,, spoil sports :rolleyes: We know you don't like it so no need for you to keep going on about it really and better for your blood pressure by the looks of it.
Well you can insert grinning/rolleyes/sarcasm smilies all you like but really, it isn't stressful - criticising Microsoft; they make it easy at times. I do wonder about those who continually jump to their defence for, it would seem, the sake of it - there's a name for that. In case it passed you by, what the critics of Metro have been asking for (in most cases) is the option of returning to a supported Start button and menu system to replace the default interface. Choice, for those who want to exercise it (for whatever reason).
The longer we keep it up (especially the media) the more likely it is that this simple choice will be introduced as an update or service pack and hopefully, suffering sales will play a big part too. So unfortunately for those of you who don't like the criticism, it ain't going away anytime soon.
Well you can insert grinning/rolleyes/sarcasm smilies all you like but really, it isn't stressful - criticising Microsoft; they make it easy at times. I do wonder about those who continually jump to their defence for, it would seem, the sake of it - there's a name for that. In case it passed you by, what the critics of Metro have been asking for (in most cases) is the option of returning to a supported Start button and menu system to replace the default interface. Choice, for those who want to exercise it (for whatever reason).
The longer we keep it up (especially the media) the more likely it is that this simple choice will be introduced as an update or service pack and hopefully, suffering sales will play a big part too. So unfortunately for those of you who don't like the criticism, it ain't going away anytime soon.
so if I like windows 8 and don't miss the start button im a fanboy :rolleyes:
I think what we are seeing is the demise and possible slow death of a once great company. Windows 8 and it's crossover onto a tablet was the holy grail for MS - a way back from the wilderness after failing completely to see the way the market was moving re: mobile computing and telephony devices.
They can be seen as akin to a giant oil tanker, unable to stop and change direction quickly. Apple and Google seized the opportunity when it presented itself whilst MS kept serving up same old same old and now I'm afraid both the aforementioned companies aren't about to give up their hard won spoils. MS need to reinvent themselves as for many the name is synonymous with "dull".
The most annoying thing about windows 8 is not that they tried to do something new, but they left the end user without a choice, im sure most people would have been happy if they could choose between classic start menu and metro UI, but instead they gave a big F YOU to the people who would prefer the classic start menu.
I think what we are seeing is the demise and possible slow death of a once great company. Windows 8 and it's crossover onto a tablet was the holy grail for MS - a way back from the wilderness after failing completely to see the way the market was moving re: mobile computing and telephony devices.
They can be seen as akin to a giant oil tanker, unable to stop and change direction quickly. Apple and Google seized the opportunity when it presented itself whilst MS kept serving up same old same old and now I'm afraid both the aforementioned companies aren't about to give up their hard won spoils. MS need to reinvent themselves as for many the name is synonymous with "dull".
When have MS ever been great? Most of their software is usable and that about it, sure they got better,, but now seems to be going back to the old days.
Comments
Asus CFO says demand for Windows 8 poor at the moment
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/asus-cfo-says-demand-for-windows-8-poor-at-the-moment-1116067
Windows 8 not exciting US consumers, retail monitor says
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/30/windows-us-consumers-retail-monitor
Windows PC Sales Down 21% Since Windows 8 Launch
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-8-Devices-Microsoft-Sales,19430.html
Microsoft Reportedly Slashing Surface Tablet Production Due to Poor Sales
http://blog.laptopmag.com/microsoft-reportedly-slashing-surface-tablet-production-due-to-poor-sales
You're right, nobody likes change initially. However, after working with something for a reasonable time you should begin to pick it up and learn why the changes have been made, the logic behind them, and the advantages.
My experience with Windows 8 has been the same as many others - very frustrating. I honestly think that with a few minor tweaks it could have been much easier to use. I also agree with the view that the Start screen/button should have been customisable. Every version of Windows before 8 allowed you to change the layout of the Start menu; why not this one?
With the departure of Steven Sinofsky from Microsoft, maybe there will be a 'sanity check' in the Windows team and they will make some changes.
You have to do a lot of setting up and customising to get it working. For example most apps on the taskbar, and start menu to get to them quick etc. In the past most used program's were listed on the start menu where you could quickly get to them without blanking off the rest of the screen. Now you enter a whole different layout along with the pulls and pushes and drag downs etc.
A good video to watch on youtube is the "windows 8 it's almost not terrible"
MS should have grown balls and gone down the route of a totally new OS for tablets and desktops. ,not Windows mish mash on both.
Stick to 7 and stop stressing yourself over such a trivial thing as the start button is probably the best for you. Or use the faster 8 and add the start button app if its vital to the smooth operation of your computer use.
^^ This
.... or learn to use the new OS as per the vision of the designers
If you really need something to vent your anger/frustration at then I suggest Apple
It isn't trivial, it (and the underlying menu system) was the main user interface of a major operating system.
I did that months ago. But you didn't read my post fully, did you. The independent start button/menu applications are unsupported and could be rendered useless by Microsoft at any time: therein lies the problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc
She got a loan to pay for it, also got the machine cheaper as she could get some tax back as it is for her businses. Not sure if I would buy one if I won the lottery. the machine is certainly powerful, rendering video on final cut is so fast and every thing is so fluid and quick. Never been able to get the same feel on a windows PC, even with a I7 and top end video card.
Agree, a mate of mine uses Cool Edit pro, which is a multi track audio recorder, it was taken over by Adobe a few years and back and renamed Audition and all sort of so called enhancements made. Now I am not a musician, so to me Cool Edit pro and Audition look almost the same, but according to my mate, cool Edit pro is far better as Audition have lost some features and it does not do some things as good as CEP. As he said, sometimes new is not always better. This is why he still uses Cool edit pro
I don't remember it ever being an option during installation. I have to admit it has been a little while since I last installed Windows 95, but I remember having to configure Program Manager for people who just wouldn't deal with the new interface.
Perhaps that's down to the fact that most people got Windows 95 preinstalled on new PCs (because you were a fool if you tried to run it on some old 486 with 8MB of RAM!), but it was definitely not an easy option to find or enable for the average person, even if it was there. It also didn't really look or act entirely the same as it did under Windows 3.1. Programs just piled up at the bottom of the screen like they were minimized, rather than appearing to be icons.
It hasn't escaped my notice because I disagree with your assertion that most who criticise metro like the rest of Windows 8. That is true in some cases (I know it is true in yours), but I wouldn't go so far to say it is true in most. There is enough out there (on both sides of the fence) that treat metro as the be-all and end-all of Windows 8.
But you actually prove me point more than I did, here. There are LOTS of differing opinions on Windows 8. Some love all of it. Some love the idea of it, but feel the implementation needs refinement. Some love the under-the-hood improvements, but hate the new UI. Some hate everything about it.
There are lots of opinions floating around about Windows 8 and there is no solid foundation to assume one of these is the opinion that most of the population hold. There is no solid evidence to support anything, as everyone seems to be able to twist the small number of available statistics to mean whatever they want to present.
None of that actually proves that a significant number of people dislike the UI change. There are other reasons that could fit that data, other than it having to be because everyone hates the UI.
The last one is also nothing more than rumour (as were the supposed figures that Microsoft apparently ordered for the Surface as well).#
Essentially, this all comes down to confirmation bias Yes, that will include me as much as anyone else, before anyone brings it up - but I'm aware of that and trying to not let it influence my judgment. Which is why my opinion is that it is too early to tell what the general consensus is. Anyone who thinks they can pull a few articles off the internet and use that as proof of what the overall population think is clearly showing confirmation bias.
You can just as easily twist it the other way to show it is a huge success, too. Microsoft sold more upgrade licenses of Windows 8 than Apple sold iPhone 5s in the same period, for example. Everyone might not like Windows 8, but everyone might not like the iPhone, either. Microsoft 40 million copies sold to date might include OEM licenses that haven't been sold on to end-users. Apple's iPhone figures might include sales to carriers and not to end-users.
Microsoft flopped when they only sold 180 million copies of Windows Vista in three years. Apple was a massive success when they sold 100 million iPads in two-and-a-half years.
Some of those Vista licenses might actually have been Windows XP downgrades, so don't count as Vista sales, even though Microsoft still profits off them.
Some of those iPad sales will have been people upgrading from earlier iPads, so don't count as marketshare increases, but it doesn't matter Apple still profits off them.
Windows 8 has been out for a month. None of us actually have enough information to make wild assertions about what the public at large think of it. Any evidence provided to date can be twisted or explained in positive or negative ways.
There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics - and that was before we had the internet to allow the propagation of this in such an outrageous fashion.
The company, the products or the people who use them?
I hope she didn't go to Ocean Finance!
Yes.
All three of the things I listed then, I take it
Of course.
No, she went to her bank and got a good deal to be honest. It be paid for around March, she was going to pay it off quicker, but it would cost her more as she had such a good deal on the loan.
i don't have to check my lottery tickets, i never used to bother doing the lottery, but I do one line on a saturday and I do it online, so if I win, they will let me know.
We got a Store here that sells Apple stuff, we popped in a week ago to see what it was like, lots of people in there, but I bet not many was buying. I will give it 12 months.
What we need is a store that sells other technology stuff, something like PC world, but better.
Just found out that windows 8 have a safe mode, but it is hidden, it could have saved me a bit of time.
Anyway, someone said something in one of these forums about their network adaptor giving problems, so I thought I would have another look. the software for my Adaptor did not come from the supplier of the wireless adaptor as they did not produced one.
Anyway, I found out yesterday that they now got a beta version of one, so i am trying that at the moment and so far the machine is not freezing, but I have not got much on it.
the adaptor is a TP-Link TL-WN822N, but only for the version 2
Your not stressed about it lol
i decided to once again try with the acronis image I made of windows 8, after recovering the image back to my drive, the computer still came up with a blue screen of death, Ms will never get rid of that label now
Now one working windows 8 with all the software I installed before I made the image still in place. so I will install so more later on when I get back from work and make another image.
No freezing either at the moment, so it looks like it was the network drivers after all. thanks to who ever said about that, even if it did take a few days to sink into my head
Also thinks to TP-link for producing the right drivers, even if they are only beta at the moment.
you never know, if MS don't like us by passing the start screen they may find a way of stopping third party software doing that. the problem is it be a losing battle, because MS will find one way of stopping them and the third party will find another way.
i am not saying it will happen, but who knows.
Well you can insert grinning/rolleyes/sarcasm smilies all you like but really, it isn't stressful - criticising Microsoft; they make it easy at times. I do wonder about those who continually jump to their defence for, it would seem, the sake of it - there's a name for that. In case it passed you by, what the critics of Metro have been asking for (in most cases) is the option of returning to a supported Start button and menu system to replace the default interface. Choice, for those who want to exercise it (for whatever reason).
The longer we keep it up (especially the media) the more likely it is that this simple choice will be introduced as an update or service pack and hopefully, suffering sales will play a big part too. So unfortunately for those of you who don't like the criticism, it ain't going away anytime soon.
so if I like windows 8 and don't miss the start button im a fanboy :rolleyes:
hardly .......
So is "continually jumping to Microsoft's defence" equal to "liking W8 and not missing the start button"?
Hardly. Not at all, in fact.
They can be seen as akin to a giant oil tanker, unable to stop and change direction quickly. Apple and Google seized the opportunity when it presented itself whilst MS kept serving up same old same old and now I'm afraid both the aforementioned companies aren't about to give up their hard won spoils. MS need to reinvent themselves as for many the name is synonymous with "dull".
When have MS ever been great? Most of their software is usable and that about it, sure they got better,, but now seems to be going back to the old days.