Then why did you say?
This seems to indicate that you do not know the difference, as do other comments you made. You have consistently until this latest post talked about converting 525/60 to 625/50 so why the change now?
Because whether you like it or not NTSC is universally accepted to be 525/60 and PAL as 625/50.
A dvd from R1 is coded to output in 525/60 and whatever you like to call it ,it needs converting or changing in order for it to be output as 625/50 or PAL 60
Does it matter if they were NTSC (525 to be precise) or not? It should still be selectable in the DVD player to play in PAL.
Why should it?
I already told you that Toshiba players have no option to play NTSC in either PAL 50 or PAL 60.
Some players will output NTSC as PAL 60 if set to PAL (like Panasonic or Pioneer) .
Set a budget player to PAL and many will convert an NTSC output into a genuine PAL 50 so that you can even record it on a VCR (forgetting Macrovision of course)
Because whether you like it or not NTSC is universally accepted to be 525/60 and PAL as 625/50.
A dvd from R1 is coded to output in 525/60 and whatever you like to call it ,it needs converting or changing in order for it to be output as 625/50 or PAL 60
It does not need converting to be played as PAL 60, PAL 60 is 525/60 but using PAL colour modulation. This is where you're making your mistake, some TVs won't accept NTSC but will accept PAL at 525/60 (PAL 60).
It does not need converting to be played as PAL 60, PAL 60 is 525/60 but using PAL colour modulation. This is where you're making your mistake, some TVs won't accept NTSC but will accept PAL at 525/60 (PAL 60).
Making what mistake?
NTSC is usually 525/60.
PAL 60 isn't exactly the same as the original NTSC (colour modulation changed from 3.58 to 4.43)
Whatever word you like to use to describe it ,the NTSC is being changed from what its supposed to be.
I already told you that Toshiba players have no option to play NTSC in either PAL 50 or PAL 60.
Some players will output NTSC as PAL 60 if set to PAL (like Panasonic or Pioneer) .
Set a budget player to PAL and many will convert an NTSC output into a genuine PAL 50 so that you can even record it on a VCR (forgetting Macrovision of course)
Converting 525/60 into 625/50 will not produce such a good image as staying 525/60 and using PAL 60 or obviously even better RGB or HDMI.
PAL 60 isn't exactly the same as the original NTSC (colour modulation changed from 3.58 to 4.43)
Whatever word you like to use to describe it ,the NTSC is being changed from what its supposed to be.
Of course NTSC is different from PAL 60 but there is no conversion in playing a 525/60 DVD in PAL 60. NTSC colour modulation is not stored on the DVD, playing PAL 60 requires no more conversion than playing NTSC, it's just using a different modulation scheme on the output stage.
I repeat again you said
Its not possible to get a disc authored and mastered for NTSC playback to simply play in PAL without displaying all the faults inherent in "converting" 525/60 material to 625/50.
Of course NTSC is different from PAL 60 but there is no conversion in playing a 525/60 DVD in PAL 60. NTSC colour modulation is not stored on the DVD, playing PAL 60 requires no more conversion than playing NTSC, it's just using a different modulation scheme on the output stage.
I repeat again you said
What are you on about?
You quote me saying that converting from 525/60 to 625/50 will introduce faults ,as if that quote was wrong.
Then you say exactly the same yourself in the previous post
You quote me saying that converting from 525/60 to 625/50 will introduce faults ,as if that quote was wrong.
Then you say exactly the same yourself in the previous post
No, you're completely missing the point. You said that an NTSC disc (525/60) cannot be played in PAL without incurring the faults inherent in converting between 525/60 and 625/50. Please tell me how else I can interpret the quote?
Its not possible to get a disc authored and mastered for NTSC playback to simply play in PAL without displaying all the faults inherent in "converting" 525/60 material to 625/50.
maybe if you didn't bore everyone with your misinformed techno-babble, your answer wouldn't have been lost...
Perhaps if you had the brains to understand what the thread is about you might also have had the brains to read a thread before posting something already posted.
You're just annoyed that you made it obvious that you had not read it properly.
As you've been using them since 1990, you should also be aware that PAL 60 and NTSC 4.43 are not the same thing.
NTSC (3.58) = 525/60fps/3.58MHz/NTSC colour
PAL (4.43) = 625/50fps/4.43MHz/PAL colour
PAL 60 = 525/60fps/3.58MHz/PAL colour (baseband version of PAL-M in essence)
NTSC 4.43 = 525/60fps/4.43MHz/NTSC colour
PAL-N (in baseband) = 625/50fps/3.58/PAL colour
NTSC 4.43 was mainly used on old Umatic decks with multi-standard monitors. The last time I saw it was on Sony VHS decks.
When modern DVD players offer you a output choice for NTSC DVDs, they are offering you NTSC 3.58 or PAL 60.
You obviously never used the Panasonic decks from the 90's where the NTSC 4.43 option is available via a switch on the front of the machine.
I had several.
Regarding dvd players - I am well aware that most offer a choice of pure NTSC or PAL 60.
But again you must have missed some of the budget models that convert into PAL 50.
Early Samsung and the entire Dansai range for starters
You obviously never used the Panasonic decks from the 90's where the NTSC 4.43 option is available via a switch on the front of the machine.
I had several.
Regarding dvd players - I am well aware that most offer a choice of pure NTSC or PAL 60.
But again you must have missed some of the budget models that convert into PAL 50.
Early Samsung and the entire Dansai range for starters
Oh dear, you're still not answering why you said NTSC 4.43 was the same as PAL 60. Please do.
Oh dear, you're still not answering why you said NTSC 4.43 was the same as PAL 60. Please do.
You state that PAL 60 is 3.58 which is NTSC colour.
When Panasonic introduced NTSC playback VCR's in 1990 it was to enable colour playback and switched frame rate for PAL tv's unable to display NTSC.
If NTSC 4.43
used NTSC colour as you state it would seem to have been a pointless exercise
Of course you need to answer where you were when Panny had these VCR's that you did not know about or that dvd players DO offer PAL 50 which you also seem not to know about
Perhaps if you had the brains to understand what the thread is about you might also have had the brains to read a thread before posting something already posted.
You're just annoyed that you made it obvious that you had not read it properly.
Its only 2 pages - is that too much for you?
Boy, you're gonna have fun on DS....you're very aggressive and quite argumentative...
...okay, my statement was;
...and in the middle of the tech-war between Nigel, Bob & WhatVideo, someone steals in with the best, most simple answer yet....
which was in response to;
Has anybody actually told you to look on the back of the DVD case? It will tell you there.
Please tell me how the following is better and simpler than the above;
While NTSC and PAL technically refer to the colour frequencies ,the terms are universally accepted by the dvd companies ,hardware manufacturers and the public as referring to 525 (NTSC) and 625 (PAL).
You only have to look on the back of R1 dvd's to see NTSC named.
I already said the colour format was irrelevant as RGB enabled colour playback from all discs ,but if the tv is not 60Hz compatible you wont get a decent picture even in RGB.
Amidst a lot of unneccesary techno-babble that the OP hasn't asked for, you allude only to R1 DVD's, therefore only partly answering the question.
IMO and many other people's, the following is by far the best and simplest answer;
Has anybody actually told you to look on the back of the DVD case? It will tell you there.
You state that PAL 60 is 3.58 which is NTSC colour.
FFS, PAL 60 is *NOT* NTSC colour. There is phase change on alternate lines and swinging colour burst. That's PAL colour (on a 3.58MHz subcarrier). The subcarrier frequency doesn't automatically change how the colour is encoded!
What a long winded excuse for simply not reading the thread to start with.
The later post may have been more succinct but the point it made had already been made so that poster also had not read the thread properly.
Ummm, no. A simpler, better answer was given. You're techno-babble and allusion only to R1 DVD's was not a good answer. Fact. Stop arguing with everyone.
Comments
Because whether you like it or not NTSC is universally accepted to be 525/60 and PAL as 625/50.
A dvd from R1 is coded to output in 525/60 and whatever you like to call it ,it needs converting or changing in order for it to be output as 625/50 or PAL 60
Why should it?
I already told you that Toshiba players have no option to play NTSC in either PAL 50 or PAL 60.
Some players will output NTSC as PAL 60 if set to PAL (like Panasonic or Pioneer) .
Set a budget player to PAL and many will convert an NTSC output into a genuine PAL 50 so that you can even record it on a VCR (forgetting Macrovision of course)
Making what mistake?
NTSC is usually 525/60.
PAL 60 isn't exactly the same as the original NTSC (colour modulation changed from 3.58 to 4.43)
Whatever word you like to use to describe it ,the NTSC is being changed from what its supposed to be.
Has anybody actually told you to look on the back of the DVD case? It will tell you there.
I repeat again you said
...and in the middle of the tech-war between Nigel, Bob & WhatVideo, someone steals in with the best, most simple answer yet....:D
I did in post 11
What are you on about?
You quote me saying that converting from 525/60 to 625/50 will introduce faults ,as if that quote was wrong.
Then you say exactly the same yourself in the previous post
Actually I said that to the OP ages ago -post 11
maybe if you didn't bore everyone with your misinformed techno-babble, your answer wouldn't have been lost...
As you've been using them since 1990, you should also be aware that PAL 60 and NTSC 4.43 are not the same thing.
NTSC (3.58) = 525/60fps/3.58MHz/NTSC colour
PAL (4.43) = 625/50fps/4.43MHz/PAL colour
PAL 60 = 525/60fps/3.58MHz/PAL colour (baseband version of PAL-M in essence)
NTSC 4.43 = 525/60fps/4.43MHz/NTSC colour
PAL-N (in baseband) = 625/50fps/3.58/PAL colour
NTSC 4.43 was mainly used on old Umatic decks with multi-standard monitors. The last time I saw it was on Sony VHS decks.
When modern DVD players offer you a output choice for NTSC DVDs, they are offering you NTSC 3.58 or PAL 60.
Perhaps if you had the brains to understand what the thread is about you might also have had the brains to read a thread before posting something already posted.
You're just annoyed that you made it obvious that you had not read it properly.
Its only 2 pages - is that too much for you?
You obviously never used the Panasonic decks from the 90's where the NTSC 4.43 option is available via a switch on the front of the machine.
I had several.
Regarding dvd players - I am well aware that most offer a choice of pure NTSC or PAL 60.
But again you must have missed some of the budget models that convert into PAL 50.
Early Samsung and the entire Dansai range for starters
Oh dear, you're still not answering why you said NTSC 4.43 was the same as PAL 60. Please do.
You state that PAL 60 is 3.58 which is NTSC colour.
When Panasonic introduced NTSC playback VCR's in 1990 it was to enable colour playback and switched frame rate for PAL tv's unable to display NTSC.
If NTSC 4.43
used NTSC colour as you state it would seem to have been a pointless exercise
Of course you need to answer where you were when Panny had these VCR's that you did not know about or that dvd players DO offer PAL 50 which you also seem not to know about
Boy, you're gonna have fun on DS....you're very aggressive and quite argumentative...
...okay, my statement was;
which was in response to;
Please tell me how the following is better and simpler than the above;
Amidst a lot of unneccesary techno-babble that the OP hasn't asked for, you allude only to R1 DVD's, therefore only partly answering the question.
IMO and many other people's, the following is by far the best and simplest answer;
FFS, PAL 60 is *NOT* NTSC colour. There is phase change on alternate lines and swinging colour burst. That's PAL colour (on a 3.58MHz subcarrier). The subcarrier frequency doesn't automatically change how the colour is encoded!
Explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC#NTSC_4.43
Doh..... I'm outta here - this guy is nuts!
What a long winded excuse for simply not reading the thread to start with.
The later post may have been more succinct but the point it made had already been made so that poster also had not read the thread properly.
Ummm, no. A simpler, better answer was given. You're techno-babble and allusion only to R1 DVD's was not a good answer. Fact. Stop arguing with everyone.
Why are you now banned? Hmmm, let me guess....