Actually, I've realised that the stories have taken a huge dive in quality since Moffat took over, which coincided with Matt.
The subtlety of RTD's touch is more apparent to me now, having revisited the shows on catch up.
e.g. Cassandra, the ultimate narcissist, cradling her dying self in her own arms, clearly in love with herself.
Yes, there was definitely more refined, intelligent stuff with RTD in charge. OK, the farting aliens... there was humour too, but never overused, and explained for the most part. Far more dimension to the characters. Far less heart strings and soppiness too.
Actually, I've realised that the stories have taken a huge dive in quality since Moffat took over, which coincided with Matt.
No they haven't. You're mistaking change for a "huge dive in quality". RTD wrote well rounded characters whose lives you cared about. With Moffat it's much less about the characters and more about the stories and trying to be clever (not the word "trying" he may not succeed in the eyes of some people)
Not being happy with a change is fair enough but it doesn't equal a universal fact that things have gotten worse.
Anyway, in Classic Who the characters were never developed too much and their back stories hardly ever touched upon. At times the show could seem completely emotionally inept. Emotions rarely played a big role and when they did it was often ridiculously unbelievable. For example, in The Green Death Jo decides she's going to marry a man she just met and in Time Flight the Doctor decides that Adric wouldn't want everyone to mourn him unnecessarily. Back then it was always about the monsters and the stories.
1. Matt, my favourite by a long, long way, absolutely brilliant doctor who made me love the show again as opposed to just watching it, so sad he's leaving.
2. Chris, enjoyed his tenure as the Doctor and think it was a shame he only did 1 series
3. David Tennant, I still remember the sinking feeling I got when I found out he was replacing CE as I had never liked him, he was OK and I got used to him in the role but was very glad when he finally left.
Actually, I've realised that the stories have taken a huge dive in quality since Moffat took over, which coincided with Matt.
The subtlety of RTD's touch is more apparent to me now, having revisited the shows on catch up.
e.g. Cassandra, the ultimate narcissist, cradling her dying self in her own arms, clearly in love with herself.
Yes, there was definitely more refined, intelligent stuff with RTD in charge. OK, the farting aliens... there was humour too, but never overused, and explained for the most part. Far more dimension to the characters. Far less heart strings and soppiness too.
You are kidding right? Farting aliens, John Barrowman and Catherine Tate? None of these things are subtle and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
Ok you have mentioned farting aliens (I am eternally grateful) but the point remains he was far from subtle especially when it came to campness. Maybe character depth has gone down a bit and I'm not denying that that is a negative but the stories have on the whole been far richer, subtler (not always subtle but on the whole they have been more subtle) and more intelligent. Blink remains my all time favorite episode I think but more and more Moffat era stories are creeping up above RTD era stories especially those after series 5.
I would argue that Moffat has been more consistent than RTD but on the rare occasion that RTD struck gold his era stories have been better (though I would like to note a lot of Moffat's stories feature in that list). I agree that Moffat has not written as many good episodes since taking over though The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and The Name of the Doctor are both stories which are the exception to this.
In terms of Doctor I voted Matt in the end because I do like his Doctor, he has grown on me and I think has been the most balanced nu-who Doctor so far (not saying he's been perfect but who can honestly say any Doctor from any era has been perfect). Having said that I was still fighting to vote for Tennant as I do still very much like his Doctor and as I have stated some his his episodes are still some of my favorites.
Eccleston very much is my least favorite nu-who Doctor partly due to the fact he was with us for so short a time but I just didn't think he gelled with the role very well and took the job for the wrong reasons. But having said that Unquiet dead and Dalek are in my favorite episodes list and his leaving story line was one of RTD's better stories in my opinion (to qualify this I mean that he personally wrote not stories others wrote in his era). I have gone on for long enough so I'm going to shut up now and let you all take it in :cool:
Actually, I've realised that the stories have taken a huge dive in quality since Moffat took over, which coincided with Matt.
The subtlety of RTD's touch is more apparent to me now, having revisited the shows on catch up.
e.g. Cassandra, the ultimate narcissist, cradling her dying self in her own arms, clearly in love with herself.
Yes, there was definitely more refined, intelligent stuff with RTD in charge. OK, the farting aliens... there was humour too, but never overused, and explained for the most part. Far more dimension to the characters. Far less heart strings and soppiness too.
I agree. I think RTD thought of characters first, where as Moffat concentrates very much on storylines. Moffat has a very clever, sophisticated by ultimately cold and clinical style of writing. This works perfectly for Sherlock (which I love) but, for me, falls flat with Doctor Who. It just feels like all the emotions are on the surface.
I think that's why I've found it difficult to really care about Matt Smith's Doctor - his character, and the characters of his companions, have been secondary to the story arcs.
RTD invested time building the audience's understanding and love for his characters where as Moffat shoves in a 20 second montage and thinks that's the job done. For me, its not. I never really cared for Amy and Rory and had high hopes for Clara, but that's not really worked for me either.
The secondary characters are where Moffat has more success - River, Vastra, Jenny and Strax. But his Doctor and companions simply lack any real depth and, for me, that's been a real problem. I think that's why Matt's my least favourite of the New Who Doctors - nothing to do with his performance, for me its been the writing.
I agree. I think RTD thought of characters first, where as Moffat concentrates very much on storylines. Moffat has a very clever, sophisticated by ultimately cold and clinical style of writing. This works perfectly for Sherlock (which I love) but, for me, falls flat with Doctor Who. It just feels like all the emotions are on the surface.
I would have pulled that slightly the other way up — that Moffatt concentrates on emotions, making stories, characters and often logic subservient to them. But I think we reach the same conclusion regardless.
I would have pulled that slightly the other way up — that Moffatt concentrates on emotions, making stories, characters and often logic subservient to them. But I think we reach the same conclusion regardless.
Yes - at the end of the day, I guess a writer's style either works for you or it doesn't.
It does impact on how you feel about the cast if the writing isn't to your own personal liking.
I agree. I think RTD thought of characters first, where as Moffat concentrates very much on storylines. Moffat has a very clever, sophisticated by ultimately cold and clinical style of writing. This works perfectly for Sherlock (which I love) but, for me, falls flat with Doctor Who. It just feels like all the emotions are on the surface.
I think that's why I've found it difficult to really care about Matt Smith's Doctor - his character, and the characters of his companions, have been secondary to the story arcs.
RTD invested time building the audience's understanding and love for his characters where as Moffat shoves in a 20 second montage and thinks that's the job done. For me, its not. I never really cared for Amy and Rory and had high hopes for Clara, but that's not really worked for me either.
The secondary characters are where Moffat has more success - River, Vastra, Jenny and Strax. But his Doctor and companions simply lack any real depth and, for me, that's been a real problem. I think that's why Matt's my least favourite of the New Who Doctors - nothing to do with his performance, for me its been the writing.
What they said. But Matt and Moffat's simultaneous arrival makes is hard for me to say which ACTOR is better. I didn't like CE much when I first saw Nu-Who, but on re-watching recently, I now think he did really, really well, and I prefer him over MS by a long chalk.
There are some moments where you really get good acting from CE & DT, something that really touches the soul, but I've yet to see a good bit of MS acting.
DT's finest moment - Midnight, especially at the end "Don't... just... don't."
CE's finest; probably the Dalek reveal.
Tennant head and shoulder above the other two but I'm not surprised that Matt is leading the poll as he is the incumberant Doctor and he is freshest in peoples minds.
Comments
The subtlety of RTD's touch is more apparent to me now, having revisited the shows on catch up.
e.g. Cassandra, the ultimate narcissist, cradling her dying self in her own arms, clearly in love with herself.
Yes, there was definitely more refined, intelligent stuff with RTD in charge. OK, the farting aliens... there was humour too, but never overused, and explained for the most part. Far more dimension to the characters. Far less heart strings and soppiness too.
Um...okay.....
No they haven't. You're mistaking change for a "huge dive in quality". RTD wrote well rounded characters whose lives you cared about. With Moffat it's much less about the characters and more about the stories and trying to be clever (not the word "trying" he may not succeed in the eyes of some people)
Not being happy with a change is fair enough but it doesn't equal a universal fact that things have gotten worse.
Anyway, in Classic Who the characters were never developed too much and their back stories hardly ever touched upon. At times the show could seem completely emotionally inept. Emotions rarely played a big role and when they did it was often ridiculously unbelievable. For example, in The Green Death Jo decides she's going to marry a man she just met and in Time Flight the Doctor decides that Adric wouldn't want everyone to mourn him unnecessarily. Back then it was always about the monsters and the stories.
I think most forum members would disagree with that point of view, TheSilentFez. Best to just move on before it turns into a discussion . . . .
2. Chris, enjoyed his tenure as the Doctor and think it was a shame he only did 1 series
3. David Tennant, I still remember the sinking feeling I got when I found out he was replacing CE as I had never liked him, he was OK and I got used to him in the role but was very glad when he finally left.
Yes, she likes to shoehorn that "fact" into just about every thread going. It's obviously a lame attempt to start a row.
You are kidding right? Farting aliens, John Barrowman and Catherine Tate? None of these things are subtle and I haven't even begun to scratch the surface.
Ok you have mentioned farting aliens (I am eternally grateful) but the point remains he was far from subtle especially when it came to campness. Maybe character depth has gone down a bit and I'm not denying that that is a negative but the stories have on the whole been far richer, subtler (not always subtle but on the whole they have been more subtle) and more intelligent. Blink remains my all time favorite episode I think but more and more Moffat era stories are creeping up above RTD era stories especially those after series 5.
I would argue that Moffat has been more consistent than RTD but on the rare occasion that RTD struck gold his era stories have been better (though I would like to note a lot of Moffat's stories feature in that list). I agree that Moffat has not written as many good episodes since taking over though The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon and The Name of the Doctor are both stories which are the exception to this.
In terms of Doctor I voted Matt in the end because I do like his Doctor, he has grown on me and I think has been the most balanced nu-who Doctor so far (not saying he's been perfect but who can honestly say any Doctor from any era has been perfect). Having said that I was still fighting to vote for Tennant as I do still very much like his Doctor and as I have stated some his his episodes are still some of my favorites.
Eccleston very much is my least favorite nu-who Doctor partly due to the fact he was with us for so short a time but I just didn't think he gelled with the role very well and took the job for the wrong reasons. But having said that Unquiet dead and Dalek are in my favorite episodes list and his leaving story line was one of RTD's better stories in my opinion (to qualify this I mean that he personally wrote not stories others wrote in his era). I have gone on for long enough so I'm going to shut up now and let you all take it in
I agree. I think RTD thought of characters first, where as Moffat concentrates very much on storylines. Moffat has a very clever, sophisticated by ultimately cold and clinical style of writing. This works perfectly for Sherlock (which I love) but, for me, falls flat with Doctor Who. It just feels like all the emotions are on the surface.
I think that's why I've found it difficult to really care about Matt Smith's Doctor - his character, and the characters of his companions, have been secondary to the story arcs.
RTD invested time building the audience's understanding and love for his characters where as Moffat shoves in a 20 second montage and thinks that's the job done. For me, its not. I never really cared for Amy and Rory and had high hopes for Clara, but that's not really worked for me either.
The secondary characters are where Moffat has more success - River, Vastra, Jenny and Strax. But his Doctor and companions simply lack any real depth and, for me, that's been a real problem. I think that's why Matt's my least favourite of the New Who Doctors - nothing to do with his performance, for me its been the writing.
I would have pulled that slightly the other way up — that Moffatt concentrates on emotions, making stories, characters and often logic subservient to them. But I think we reach the same conclusion regardless.
Yes - at the end of the day, I guess a writer's style either works for you or it doesn't.
It does impact on how you feel about the cast if the writing isn't to your own personal liking.
2. Matt and Chris (I can't decide between these two as I feel they are similar)
What they said. But Matt and Moffat's simultaneous arrival makes is hard for me to say which ACTOR is better. I didn't like CE much when I first saw Nu-Who, but on re-watching recently, I now think he did really, really well, and I prefer him over MS by a long chalk.
There are some moments where you really get good acting from CE & DT, something that really touches the soul, but I've yet to see a good bit of MS acting.
DT's finest moment - Midnight, especially at the end "Don't... just... don't."
CE's finest; probably the Dalek reveal.
2. Eccleston
3 Tennant
Though Tennant's series does have some of my all time favourite episodes Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, family of Blood