Israeli Cabinet moves to define Israel as Jewish

Diamond statDiamond stat Posts: 1,473
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http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-settlers-blamed-palestinian-house-fire-075725176.html

Not sure this is such a good idea as this could further deteriorate on the region.

On the other hand, at least everyone will know where they stand and this will help engage Jews across the world that state Israel has nothing to do with them..
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  • bluefbbluefb Posts: 15,461
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    On the other hand, at least everyone will know where they stand and this will help engage Jews across the world that state Israel has nothing to do with them..

    I don't get this. Israel doesn't and won't have anything to do with Jews around the world unless they choose to identify with it.
  • Dave1979Dave1979 Posts: 1,804
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    So they are like the Jewish Saudi Arabia then. Any pretext of "the only democracy in the Middle East" is gone.
  • BeanybunBeanybun Posts: 3,505
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    Dave1979 wrote: »
    So they are like the Jewish Saudi Arabia then. Any pretext of "the only democracy in the Middle East" is gone.

    Why will it cease being a democracy :confused:

    Defining itself as a religious state makes Israel no more or less democratic; check out the defininition in a dictionary, if you don't believe me.

    The UK is a Christian state; does that make it something other than democratic?

    :p
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    Israel is as democratic as the US of the 1950s.
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Israel is as democratic as the US of the 1950s.

    That is still more democratic than Gaza then and every other Muslim country and Islamic state.
  • wendy09wendy09 Posts: 3,934
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Israel is as democratic as the US of the 1950s.

    i think youre being a bit too generous . its closer to south africa .. and to think gaza has more equality and greater transparent democracy than israel
  • zahavizahavi Posts: 551
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    Dave1979 wrote: »
    So they are like the Jewish Saudi Arabia then. Any pretext of "the only democracy in the Middle East" is gone.

    Its never been a democracy mate. always been a theocracy.
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    wendy09 wrote: »
    i think youre being a bit too generous . its closer to south africa .. and to think gaza has more equality and greater transparent democracy than israel

    Doe that 'transparent democracy' include shooting so-called spies outside police stations and mosques ? There's been no 'democratic' elections in 7 years and the last attempt a Unity Government caused a civil war with Fataf members being thown from tower blocks and some 900 dead in two weeks. The only 'transparent democracy' in Gaza is martial law by Hamas.
  • Dave1979Dave1979 Posts: 1,804
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    zahavi wrote: »
    Its never been a democracy mate. always been a theocracy.

    Hence the "pretext"
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/11/israel-delays-vote-controversial-bill-20141124123913840743.html
    "[Israel] has equal individual rights for every citizen, and we insist on this," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said before the vote. "But only the Jewish people have national rights."

    So everyone is equal, except some are less equal than others. National rights have yet to be defined, but one coalition member makes a very good point-
    "This morning I spoke with the family of Zidan Saif," Lapid said, referring to a Druze police officer killed in a shootout with the synagogue attackers. "What can we say to this family? That he is a second-class citizen?"

    The Druze officer was good enough to die for his country and protect others, yet wouldn't be granted 'national rights'..
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    Israel “has equal individual rights for every citizen and we insist on this. But only the Jewish people have national rights: a flag, anthem, the right of every Jew to immigrate to the country, and other national symbols. These are granted only to our people, in its one and only state,” Netanyahu said at the start of the cabinet meeting.

    Al-Jezhera amazing journalism as usual, taking half a quote and using it to demonizes Israel.

    There are those who want the democratic (element) to take precedence over the Jewish, and there are those that want the Jewish (element) to take precedence over the democratic. And the principle of the law that we are proposing here today — both of these values are equal and we must consider them equally,” he said, according to a statement from his office.

    Religion and law is equal despite other wanting the opposite.

    “The State of Israel is a democratic state, founded on the principles of freedom, justice and peace, in accordance with the vision of Israel’s prophets, and upholds the individual rights of all of its citizens according to the law,” the cabinet-approved principles read.

    The right to vote, being homosexual isn't illegal, choose their leaders, freedom of religion and which are denied in Saudi, Qatar, Jordan. At least they can vote in Iran but's still illegal to day a non-Muslim or gay.
  • 2+2=52+2=5 Posts: 24,264
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    That is still more democratic than Gaza then and every other Muslim country and Islamic state.

    So that's the level of the bar you compare against? Not very high, is it?

    When you see someone comparing Israel to the Arab states around it, you know what the real point of the conversation is.

    Arabic states have a long way to go to sort themselves out. However, IMHO those who compare Israel to them have no intention of every recognising any improvements those other countries will ever make. Their mind is made up. Permanently. Which is a shame, I think.
  • 2+2=52+2=5 Posts: 24,264
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Israel is as democratic as the US of the 1950s.

    The danger is those trying to suggest criticism of the Israeli government and the actions/decisions they perform, is anti-Semitic. Which it isn't. It's a useful way to shut down any "dissent" though.
  • Blockz99Blockz99 Posts: 5,045
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    it beggars belief why Israel would want to put it in the same groupings as Saudi and the other gulf states !
  • Blockz99Blockz99 Posts: 5,045
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    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Israel is as democratic as the US of the 1950s.

    Still makes it a lot better than all the Muslim states in the middle east today today !
  • M@nterikM@nterik Posts: 6,982
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    Blockz99 wrote: »
    Still makes it a lot better than all the Muslim states in the middle east today today !

    Which is neither relevant nor excuses what Israel is doing.
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    Al-Jezhera amazing journalism as usual, taking half a quote and using it to demonizes Israel.

    I don't think so. It's a reasonable question. Israel has a large population of non-Jews, around 20%. So far this has been a cabinet decision and how it'll work in practice aren't really known. What is known is that non-Jews already face discrimination and may face more with as yet undefined 'National Rights'. By definition, it is discriminatory, along with the removal of Arabic as an official language.
  • Ethel_FredEthel_Fred Posts: 34,127
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    That is still more democratic than Gaza then and every other Muslim country and Islamic state.
    Ah, the old Abu Ghraib defence - it's acceptable to do something unacceptable because others are worse.

    By your "logic" therefore it is acceptable for Palestinians to kill Israelis because Israel kills more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis.
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    I don't think so. It's a reasonable question. Israel has a large population of non-Jews, around 20%. So far this has been a cabinet decision and how it'll work in practice aren't really known. What is known is that non-Jews already face discrimination and may face more with as yet undefined 'National Rights'. By definition, it is discriminatory, along with the removal of Arabic as an official language.

    The 'National Rights' come not long after a three month old baby was killed. fourteen people injured, a police officer killed and four rabbi's were murdered. It's a response to Islamic extremism. The bill is there so Jewish peoples right to their religion can never be removed, not from Palestinians, not from terrorism, not from anyone.

    Removing Arabaic, maybe the Muslims who don't want to integrate will have to learn English or Hebrew. Unlike the UK they Israeli government doesn't seem to pander to the minorities who want to create a 'state within a state'.

    Just like the UK they making a law to revoke the citizenship of terrorists.
    Ethel_Fred wrote: »
    Ah, the old Abu Ghraib defence - it's acceptable to do something unacceptable because others are worse.

    By your "logic" therefore it is acceptable for Palestinians to kill Israelis because Israel kills more Palestinians than Palestinians kill Israelis.

    Simple fact that Israel is a secular democracy where people have the right to vote, practice their religion and aren't arrested for being homosexual.

    Hamas ride around in jeeps with assault rifles enforcing Sharia on it's population so there is no 'transparent democracy' because governing by force is martial law.
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    The 'National Rights' come not long after a three month old baby was killed. fourteen people injured, a police officer killed and four rabbi's were murdered. It's a response to Islamic extremism. The bill is there so Jewish peoples right to their religion can never be removed, not from Palestinians, not from terrorism, not from anyone.

    The police officer that was murdered wasn't Jewish, so what rights would he have in a 'Jewish State'? And when you talk about Jewish people, are you talking about a race, or a religion? If a religion, which version of Judaism are you referring to? One aspect of the 'Jewish State' is to base their legal framework on Jewish law, but there are many different interpretations. You like highlighting that Israel currently has a liberal approach to homosexuality compared to some of it's neighbors, but according to some Orthodox Jews, anal intercourse is yehareg ve'al ya'avor. So a capital crime. If that becomes 'national law', where do liberal Jews go?

    (short answer would be London, New York, Antwerp etc where it's ok to be gay and Jewish)
    Unlike the UK they Israeli government doesn't seem to pander to the minorities who want to create a 'state within a state'.

    Are you saying we should ban Welsh and Gaelic as official languages? Would save some cash but the EU may not be happy.. And isn't Israel hoping to become an EU member?
    Simple fact that Israel is a secular democracy where people have the right to vote, practice their religion and aren't arrested for being homosexual.

    Yet.
  • DotheboyshallDotheboyshall Posts: 40,583
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    Even the Israeli President is against this pointing out that the founders of Israel wanted an inclusive state for all its citizens not an exclusive one for some
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/surprises-visitors-occupation
    The women are both Muslims, and when they said they were Muslim, they were not allowed to walk down Shuhada Street. Even though they had American passports. Shuhada Street is infamous because it’s an apartheid road. Jews can use it, but Palestinians can’t.

    And that's without the proposed changes..
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/surprises-visitors-occupation



    And that's without the proposed changes..

    It's all a response to terrorism by Palestinian Muslims who kill Jews in synagogues with meat cleavers.

    The Jewish people should be able to walk their own streets without police protection, Israel shouldn't need checkpoints or a separation wall but as long as Jewish people are firebombed, attacked in the street and rabbis are murdered it won't change;
  • SULLASULLA Posts: 149,789
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    Israel will not be forcing members of other religions to become Jews.
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    It's all a response to terrorism by Palestinian Muslims who kill Jews in synagogues with meat cleavers.

    Actually..

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/02/palestinians-twentieth-anniversary

    The protest commemorated the twentieth anniversary of the Ibrahami mosque massacre. Baruch Goldstein, an extremist Israeli residing in the nearby settlement of Kiryat Arba, opened fire on Palestinians praying inside of the Mosque, killing 29 before other worshippers beat him to death. In the aftermath, Shuhada Street, where the mosque is located, was closed to Palestinian cars, then reopened under a peace agreement in 1997. But in 1999 under the Hebron Accords, the city was officially divided in two by barricades and checkpoints, and the road was closed again.

    So Palestinians were banned from their street after an Israeli massacred 29 people in a Mosque. Israeli 'justice' is strange like that.
    The Jewish people should be able to walk their own streets without police protection, Israel shouldn't need checkpoints or a separation wall but as long as Jewish people are firebombed, attacked in the street and rabbis are murdered it won't change;

    And the non-Jews? Should they be denied the same rights..

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/palestinians-checkpoint-killing
    NABLUS (Ma‘an) 25 Nov — An Israeli bus driver ran over two Palestinian at al-Jalama checkpoint in Jenin, killing one person and injuring another, Palestinian security sources said Tuesday.

    Reckon the Israeli bus driver will have his house demolished?
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