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Can anyone recommend me an affordable 'narrow' FM DX tuner/radio
max_db
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Hi all
I would like to buy a decent FM tuner which has narrow selectivity and sensitive reception but I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on one.
Until recently I was borrowing the almighty Sony XDR-F1HD but my friend has got it back again now and all I have here is the tuner on my Yamaha receiver which is reasonably sensitive but nowhere near as narrow as the Sony, which was able to 'sniff out' distant stations only 100khz away almost every strong commericial station.
Unfortunately they are far too rare these days and very expensive if you ever find them so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest any good alternatives.
I would prefer RDS but I'm not that fussed if it doesn't have it as I'm mainly looking to sniff out all the weak DX stuff which wouldn't usually be strong enough to lift the RDS anyway.
I already have some great little portable radios like the Tecsun PL-310/ Tecsun PL-606 and the Eton E5 but even they aren't anywhere near narrow enough for what I need.
I have been soldering for almost 30 years so if a recommendation may require narrower filters that's not a problem and I'll be happy to source some and replace them if necessary.
Kind regards
I would like to buy a decent FM tuner which has narrow selectivity and sensitive reception but I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on one.
Until recently I was borrowing the almighty Sony XDR-F1HD but my friend has got it back again now and all I have here is the tuner on my Yamaha receiver which is reasonably sensitive but nowhere near as narrow as the Sony, which was able to 'sniff out' distant stations only 100khz away almost every strong commericial station.
Unfortunately they are far too rare these days and very expensive if you ever find them so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest any good alternatives.
I would prefer RDS but I'm not that fussed if it doesn't have it as I'm mainly looking to sniff out all the weak DX stuff which wouldn't usually be strong enough to lift the RDS anyway.
I already have some great little portable radios like the Tecsun PL-310/ Tecsun PL-606 and the Eton E5 but even they aren't anywhere near narrow enough for what I need.
I have been soldering for almost 30 years so if a recommendation may require narrower filters that's not a problem and I'll be happy to source some and replace them if necessary.
Kind regards
0
Comments
You might try looking for a secondhand Revox B760 which was the gold standard, but they certainly weren't cheap !
But they are all nowhere near as narrow as need them to be.
I've heard there are radios on the market which you can change the filters to 100KHz which is absolutely ideal for me but it's been so long since I saw any of the details and haven't had any need for them until now.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xblaupunkt+digiceiver&_nkw=blaupunkt+digiceiver&_sacat=0&_from=R40
I know a DXer who uses one of these at home with very good results.
Otherwise the only RDS hi-fi tuner I can think of that would rival the Sony XDR-F1HD would be the Onkyo T-4970 which should be available from German eBay. It uses a complicated filter system called DYNAS (dynamic selectivity) which can produce stunning results, but only if the filters are in alignment, and this will be something of a lottery on a tuner that's over 20 years old.
My favourite overall tuner so far for performance is the Denon TU-800L but it doesn't have RDS.
N'either the Denon or Onkyo are available from anywhere that I can see.
I would be happy to use a car radio as I already have a decent 25A adjustable voltage transformer here which will power it and is very clean and won't cause any interference.
I am very interested in the Kansas DigiCeiver you showed me here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blaupunkt-DigiCeiver-Kansas-DJ-Cassette-Player-with-CD-Changer-/331080951241?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item4d15f665c9
But I'm also attracted to this one as it's only £25.00 but the seller says "no code's found" and I'm a little confused as to what they mean but that, if they mean they couldn't find a code for it to be able to use it or if they mean no requests to enter a code were found when they tested it? (meaning it works without one) I have messaged them and will await a reply.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLAUPUNKT-PARIS-RCM169-DIGICEIVER-NO-CODES-FOUND-SA-7-/291138971817?pt=UK_In_Car_Technology&hash=item43c93c28a9
Many kind thanks for your reply, in the meantime while I'm awaiting if anyone else has any suggestions i'd much appreciate it.
There are 4 Onkyo T-4970s currently on eBay Germany:
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xonkyo+t-4970&_nkw=onkyo+t-4970&_sacat=0&_from=R40
There are no Denon TU-800 tuners at the moment, and I think they are relatively rare. They can go cheap when they do turn up, around £45-50 which is an astonishing bargain when you consider their performance.
I'm guessing that's what the seller will tell me anyway. Will have a look around but will probably just for for the one that's £60 + P&P
Thanks for your reply, unfortunately I'm not too good on my German and can't see anything about any of them shipping to the UK. I'll keep my eyes peeled though.
From my experience I find the sellers in Germany often speak some English and when i have asked about shipping to the UK they have often said it was fine.
It might be worth a go if you want one enough. I do remember the RDS decoding was generally very slow though and needed a really strong signal to decode quickly.
Another possibility is the Sony ST-SB920 which is another popular cheap tuner with DXers, particularly when modified with narrow filters:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xsony+st-sb920&_nkw=sony+st-sb920&_sacat=0&_from=R40
The RDS decoding is very fast and it is sensitive, unlike the Onkyo. It also displays PI codes, which is very useful during quick-fire Sporadic E openings! However, the Onkyo T-4970 is much more selective.
You pays your money, you takes your choice.
What do you reckon on this one Nick?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/onkyo-integra-fm-stero-am-tuner-r1-/331286419343?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Tuners&hash=item4d2235978f
If it's a thumbs up maybe it'll be worth asking them to send it as it says they will consider posting it.
Have you tried one of those Sony's with the modified filters?
The Onkyo T-4650 (which is the model you linked to) gets a good write-up on the Tuner Information Center so it will be sensitive and selective but not as selective as the T-4970 with DYNAS. It also doesn't have RDS.
I haven't tried a modified Sony no. My first proper DXing tuner was a Sony ST-SA3ES which I bought because it was popular with UK DXers at the time. It is very similar to the ST-SB920. I certainly got plenty of decent DX with it over the years, despite the selectivity being just quite good rather than the ultra-selectivity you can get with DSP-based tuners like the XDR-F1HD and the Blaupunkts. The RDS features on those Sonys still make them very useful as DXers though.
Sent an offer of £50 including postage which he was happy to accept and hopefully it should arrive by Friday so I'll post the results up on here.
As I got it for such a bargain I will still be looking into buying one or two more tuners for my DX passion.
Looking forward to seeing what I can catch with my vertical roof beam.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ONKYO-Quartz-Synthesized-FM-Stereo-MW-LW-Tuner-/141366186449?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=MWyPwL22zia9LV2MUy1zUpJgc7w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I know it's only a very basic model and is lacking many of the features I'm looking for but for £16.00 is hardly going to break the bank and certainly worth a 'punt'.
I look forward to reading your reception reports
I had a possibly good idea which I'd like your input with if that's OK with you...
I know that many BMW's have windscreen antenna's which require their powered antenna booster in order to make them work which dramatically improves their performance. I am wondering if it would be worth sourcing one and using it with my beam instead of the poor performing windscreen antenna they are made for, or do you think it will just bring in loads more noise and not improve things with this kind of set up?
I've seen the difference they make in the cars when the DC power cable is disconnected so it may be worth another 'punt' getting one of these to go with the Kansas and the roof beam to see how well it boosts my DX signals?
Max
It could well end up being overloaded by having a far stronger signal than that obtained by a heated windscreen trying at act as a stupidly inefficient aerial, and non-linearity could drop spurious signals on top of what you are trying to receive.
If you really must have an amplifier, use a high quality masthead type specifically designed for the purpose.
I have a 3 element beam facing directly towards central London but I have got the almighty South Downs only 1.5 miles north of me and unfortunately the hill I have to face it towards to be in the right direction is around 180m ASL, where as I'm about 5m ASL if that.
The DigiCeiver arrived today and I'm quite disappointed with it if I'm honest, it definitely isn't any more sensitive than my Yamaha RX-V396RDS Natural Sound receiver and only very slightly more selective, but I will keep on searching until I find something more suitable for me, also like most car radio's you have to turn the volume up much higher when receiving a weak station to hear it at the same level and try not to forget to turn it right down again if scanning or face waking the whole house up!
I have seen those masthead amplifiers before but the one I was looking at was built for a very broad frequency range so I'd be looking more for something which is specifically designed for FM band II.
I quite like the idea of a tuner with modified filters as I'm only interested in pulling in the weaker DX stuff.
I appreciate all your input and comments Nick and Gerry1, I will keep on searching for something a bit better with decent selectivity and good sensitivity, I'm quite surprised how little improvement (if any) this car radio has given me, but certainly worth a try and appreciated either way.
Another Onkyo possibility is the Onkyo T-9990 or T-9090 MkII (same tuner inside AFAIK). There's a Youtube video here of one in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl-mPd91r0w
What I find amazing is that KRTH on 101.1 is only showing 9dB on the signal strength indicator but it is still managing a steady, if noisy, stereo signal.
I wouldn't mind trying one myself but they are quite expensive and I think the Denon I use has the same selectivity specs.
Cars often have them because Style Over Substance™ design dictates that glorified coat hangers are used instead of proper aerials: heated rear windscreens, shark fins, bits of foil stuck on athermic windscreens next to the pillar, etc. If you start with precious little signal from some grotty apology for an aerial, then you have to resort to amplification to try to replace all the signal strength you've thrown away.
BTW, switching off the DC power won't replicate the results of an unamplified aerial. An unpowered amp won't become a 0dB link: any whiff of signal that still gets through will be via leakage, so you're effectively unplugging the aerial. No wonder there seems to be such a dramatic improvement - anything divided by zero is infinite ! ;-)
However, a good external aerial and good low-loss downlead should deliver a worthwhile signal; unless thre are special circumstances (e.g. aerial is umpteen storeys above) it's likely that only an insensitive tuner would benefit from aerial amplification. You'd also be at risk of adding noise or intermodulation products.
I'd be inclined to use a professional product from a specialised manufacturer rather than trying to bodge a car amplifier. Fuba have an amp with adjustable attenuation, but it's not cheap, not is it masthead. (View the page with Chrome and it will translate it.) Fuba also used to make an adjustable multi-notch filter which could be useful if you have weak DX next to strong locals.
If you're still really keen on experimenting with an amplifier, it might be worth finding a specialist (if any still exist, which I rather doubt seeing that the wretched horizontal halo now seems to be the default FM aerial) and wangling a 'Sale or 90% Refund' deal.
I managed to win the Sony ST-SB920QS on eBay for a decent price and bought the Onkyo T-33L.
Out of the 3 the Blaupunkt is definitely the most sensitive and selective and the Onkyo is the 2nd best for sensitivity but isn't very selective.
I've tried switching the Sony to 'Narrow' setting which doesn't seem to make much difference to the selectivity and certainly not the sensitivity but I am going to modify the filters when I get round to it and see how I get on. I see there is also a gain control which is factory set to half way so maybe that will make a difference when it's adjusted. But going from all the reviews etc I've read about it I must say I'm quite disappointed that it's no better than any of the others.