Any come back on car delear?

LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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I bought a classic car in April 2012 from a classic car dealer and paid just shy of five grand for it.

This price was fine and I had good reason to spend that money. I also know that dealers have to make a profit.

However the car had a fault whereby the engine cut out on occasion. I did not take it back/get in touch with the dealer as there was no warranty and no proof that he knew about the fault (which of course may have only developed during my ownership).

I have spoken however to the previous owner who sold it to the dealer for two grand! and sold it with the fault!

So the dealer knew of the fault and yet did not say anything about it or mention it in the advert.

I know it's a long shot but is there any way I can come back against him after so much time has elapsed, or am I better just chalking it up as experience?

Comments

  • Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,613
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    Have you had it fixed? If so you could try the threat of a county court claim for the cost. You are likely to need at least a statement from the original owner to support it should you have to proceed. But leaving it so long is not helpful.
  • TeeGeeTeeGee Posts: 5,772
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    Do you know what the problem actually is and how much it will cost to fix it? There are plenty of marque specific websites out there for comment as well as Honestjohn.
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    Keefy-boy wrote: »
    Have you had it fixed? If so you could try the threat of a county court claim for the cost. You are likely to need at least a statement from the original owner to support it should you have to proceed. But leaving it so long is not helpful.

    I have had it in for repair which did not succeed. I have re investigated the issues and am pretty sure I know which components need replacing and am going to take it to a specialist as soon as possible.
  • coopermanyorkscoopermanyorks Posts: 21,215
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    After 18 months I think you should put it down to experience and next time do your investigating BEFORE you make a purchase

    I know its not what you want to hear
  • CitySlickerCitySlicker Posts: 10,414
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    Can you prove the dealer knew there was a fault? Was anything written down? The problem is you could go to court, you could argue there was a known fault, you could provide the statement from the seller. The dealer could argue they weren't aware of it, it was all hearsay, they could even say the person you dealt with left the company and they have no way of verifying the situation. Multitude of things.

    Did you use a credit card for any part of the purchase? If so, was it at least £100? If you did you should talk to your credit card issuer as there's a reasonable chance they will make representation for you as they're partly liable under the Consumer Credit Act. If not, and it was a cash purchase, I would try and visit the dealer owner and advise them you want x amount refund to cover repairing the problem. If they say no, perhaps shell out a few quid from a solicitor to get a letter worded sending across to them telling them pay up or you'll take legal action. Perhaps consider court but I'd listen to a solicitor first - I probably wouldn't take this to court.
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    Can you prove the dealer knew there was a fault? Was anything written down? The problem is you could go to court, you could argue there was a known fault, you could provide the statement from the seller. The dealer could argue they weren't aware of it, it was all hearsay, they could even say the person you dealt with left the company and they have no way of verifying the situation. Multitude of things.

    Did you use a credit card for any part of the purchase? If so, was it at least £100? If you did you should talk to your credit card issuer as there's a reasonable chance they will make representation for you as they're partly liable under the Consumer Credit Act. If not, and it was a cash purchase, I would try and visit the dealer owner and advise them you want x amount refund to cover repairing the problem. If they say no, perhaps shell out a few quid from a solicitor to get a letter worded sending across to them telling them pay up or you'll take legal action. Perhaps consider court but I'd listen to a solicitor first - I probably wouldn't take this to court.

    Thanks, I sure I could get a written letter from the previous owner and I did use my credit card for the deposit which was £500.00.
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    After 18 months I think you should put it down to experience and next time do your investigating BEFORE you make a purchase

    I know its not what you want to hear

    Indeed. However the previous owner was not known to me at that time and I bought the car in good faith from what I thought was a reputable classic car dealer.
  • CitySlickerCitySlicker Posts: 10,414
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    Liparus wrote: »
    Thanks, I sure I could get a written letter from the previous owner and I did use my credit card for the deposit which was £500.00.

    That changes quite a bit then. In that case I would get a definite diagnosis of the problem then obtain three quotes for its repair. Put this in a letter to the dealer, send recorded delivery and ask them to meet the repair of the cost in full.

    Advise - but do not send them a copy - that you have a signed statement of truth from the original seller that the garage was made aware of the fault but they withheld this information from you. Give them 14 days to reply, and advise if they do not meet your request in full it is with reluctance you will involve your credit card issuer to assist their legal assistance in line with section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

    The very fact you paid over £100 on your credit card gives you loads of protection on your ENTIRE purchase, not just the £500 you spent. That's good news for you, bad news for the dealer/credit card company.
  • Jason JAG LawJason JAG Law Posts: 1,069
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    Unless the previous owner has something in writing from the garage acknowledging the problem when he sold it to the garage I think the changes of redress are remote.

    I suspect the former owner is saying this to you now because he was given such a low value the garage attached to it. 10p says the previous owner never disclosed this problem in writing when he was trying to sell it to garage for best price.

    On a technical front you do not have to pay over £100 to get S75 protection so long as the item has a price of over £100 and upto 30k, any amount paid on credit card triggers the provision.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 511
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    Liparus wrote: »
    I bought a classic car in April 2012

    Okay, so this was nearly 18 months ago, and a classic car is typically over 20 years old.
    from a classic car dealer and paid just shy of five grand for it.

    This price was fine and I had good reason to spend that money. I also know that dealers have to make a profit.

    Relevant word: Dealer.
    However the car had a fault whereby the engine cut out on occasion. I did not take it back/get in touch with the dealer as there

    So you gave the dealer no opportunity to address the issue and have continued to use the car for 18 months since then.
    was no warranty and no proof that he knew about the fault (which of course may have only developed during my ownership).

    That was your decision based upon a fairly flawed argument that he'd reject any claim.
    I have spoken however to the previous owner who sold it to the dealer for two grand! and sold it with the fault!

    Okay, at the point that the car was sold to the dealer, the car had the fault. Did the original owner disclose this to the dealer?
    So the dealer knew of the fault and yet did not say anything about it or mention it in the advert.

    See above - was the fault disclosed to the dealer?
    I know it's a long shot but is there any way I can come back against him after so much time has elapsed, or am I better just chalking it up as experience?

    The following is from The AA....
    TheAA wrote:
    Dealers must also comply with the requirements of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008), which prohibit them from engaging in unfair business practices across five main categories:

    Giving false information either verbally, visually or in writing, for example misrepresenting the vehicle's specification or history at any time before, during or after the transaction.

    Giving insufficient information - leaving out or hiding important information for example not disclosing the existence and results of all checks carried out on the vehicle's mechanical condition, history and mileage or failing to draw your attention to the key elements of any warranty e.g. what's covered, claim limits and conditions to be followed.

    Acting aggressively for example using high pressure selling techniques to sell a vehicle or associated finance or warranty.
    Failing to act in accordance with reasonable expectations of what's acceptable

    Banning outright of 31 specific practices including: falsely claiming to be a signatory to a Code of Practice; falsely claiming to be approved, endorsed or authorised by a public or private body; falsely stating that a vehicle will only be available for a very limited time in order to elicit an immediate decision to buy.

    also
    TheAA wrote:
    and is legally obliged to sort out the problem if it fails to meet these basic requirements.

    Satisfactory quality means that the vehicle should be of a standard a reasonable person would expect, taking into account factors such as: age, value, history, mileage, make, durability, safety and description. An old car with high mileage would not be expected to be as good as a younger car with low mileage but each should still be roadworthy, reliable, and in a condition consistent with its age/price.

    The dealer is liable for faults with the vehicle - that mean it was not of satisfactory quality - that were present at the time it was sold even though they may only become apparent later on.

    The dealer is not liable for fair wear and tear, where the vehicle broke down or the fault emerged through normal use, nor are they liable if they drew your attention to the full extent of any fault or defect before you bought the car.

    Fit for purpose means that you must be able to use the vehicle for the purposes that you would normally expect from a vehicle including any particular purpose that you tell the dealer about before you buy, or which the dealer has advertised or gleaned from your conversation. This would include towing or short journey use.

    You need to ask yourself whether you can, based on the information above, expect the dealer to be at fault here.

    There is no time limit to making a claim.


    Personally, trying to pursue the dealer after 18 months... I think you have something less than a snowballs chance in hell. But I'd be interested to hear if you have success
  • SigurdSigurd Posts: 26,610
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    Liparus wrote: »
    ...I have spoken however to the previous owner who sold it to the dealer for two grand! and sold it with the fault!

    So the dealer knew of the fault and yet did not say anything about it or mention it in the advert...
    The previous owner may have sold the car with the fault that it's now displaying, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he told the dealer about it.

    I believe your car is getting on for thirty years old. You also say you bought it with no warranty. I think you're simply experiencing one of the hazards of buying an old car, and if you're not one of those enthusiasts who has some mechanical knowledge and is prepared to get his hands dirty (or else to pay someone to do the job for you, and maybe pay them quite frequently), then you've probably made a bad choice of car. You've also known about the fault for at least nine months now and despite that didn't tell the dealer about it.

    I don't think you have any chance of getting a refund at this stage. If you need a reliable, trouble-free car you'd be better to get rid of the Firebird and buy something like a Skoda Fabia! :D
  • kippehkippeh Posts: 6,655
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    You have little chance of establishing that the dealer was aware of the fault when buying, or when selling the car. I can imagine that you feel a sense of injustice in the dealer making money out of you whilst passing on an inherent fault, but I would probably have to put it down to experience. Good luck.
  • simon40simon40 Posts: 620
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    18 months ago and you are still moaning about being sold a faulty car.
    You've put up with it for 18 months.
    You need to get it fixed and chalk it up to experience.
    Pity you didn't spend more time researching the car when you bought it instead of after when you have found out it was faulty.
    It's only an old Banger (classic) which have inherent faults at the end of the day, what do you expect?
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    Thanks for all of the replies. I came to see what the consensus would be on the situation and it would seem my best bet is to leave it be.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 591
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    Mate, you got stung. Delete this thread polish the jalopy & flog it for six grand, job's a good 'un.
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    If I get it fixed it should make it worth what I paid for it, perhaps a little more.
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    Thanks for all of the replies.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 591
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    Hi, tried to reply via your PM - the only reason I joked about deleting this thread was to hide the fault of the car from prospective buyers.... wasn't being serious mate. ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4
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    Having been a dealer of parts for vintage scooters, motorcycles & cars for many years and having sold a fair share of vehicles, it really annoys me when people always assume a dealer to be a crook.

    What's to say he didn't buy the car for £2,000 with a fault then spend X amount fixing it, only for the problem to arise 1, 2, 3 or 18 months later.
  • Philip WalesPhilip Wales Posts: 6,373
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    ^^^ Just what I was thinking, but maybe the guys mechanic can tell they've not been replaced recently.

    Your going to have a problem getting the courts to believe the previous owner actually told the garage about the fault, who in their right mind would go to a garage, try to get best price, then tell the garage "oh by the way, the cars a crock of crap". And why didn't the garage pick this fault up themselves when they bought it, or does it only happen after so many miles?
  • LiparusLiparus Posts: 4,742
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    ^^^ Just what I was thinking, but maybe the guys mechanic can tell they've not been replaced recently.

    Your going to have a problem getting the courts to believe the previous owner actually told the garage about the fault, who in their right mind would go to a garage, try to get best price, then tell the garage "oh by the way, the cars a crock of crap". And why didn't the garage pick this fault up themselves when they bought it, or does it only happen after so many miles?

    The problem does not occur on a short drive.

    I think I'll leave the situation as it is, get the car fixed, get some enjoyment out of it and maybe sell it in the future.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,168
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    What car is it, and what's the fault?
  • coopermanyorkscoopermanyorks Posts: 21,215
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    .......what's the fault?

    See the OP ?
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